Diamond paste freehand sharpening system

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Without wishing to start a debate on different sharpening methods, I'm looking for some advice that might save me hours of experimenting... I would like to practice sharpening freehand using convex bevel method as demonstrated by Paul Sellers and others. I am currently using Veritas sharpening jig and Shapton glass stones, and while results seem good enough for a newbie, I find myself always delaying sharpening because jig is too slow to set up and I have no room for permanent sharpening station to contain water and mess. I tried doing it freehand, and I seem to be getting results that are pretty comparable to using the jig, but I would still like to get away from flattening and water (or maybe just trade it for a different evil). Rather than using diamond stones, my genius idea is to use diamond paste on MDF or the new Lee Valley steel honing plates.

Are there any reasons this is a fundamentally bad idea that will cause me grief? My understanding is that with diamond compound (unlike powder) there shouldn't be too many issues with diamonds infecting something else in the shop, but I could be wrong.

If you had to select grits to make a multi-plate sharpening board, which micron sizes would you select out of these:

40, 28, 20, 14, 10, 7, 5, 3.5 2.5, 1.5, 1, 0.5

My initial idea was to use 3 grits plus 0.5 micron on leather for stropping - unless there is a good reason to stick with green LV stick. I might try on MDF first for proof of concept, but would likely switch to honing plates as they seem like less maintenance. Thanks for your comments.

[David Posey]

Do you have/plan on using a grinder? If you do, I'm not sure you need 3 grits.

[David Weaver]

I would use a 1000 or 1200 grit plate (not loose diamonds) and a steel or cast iron plate with 1 or 0.5 micron diamonds (probably 0.5). Green stick should be used on MDF or something like that if you want to use it, but you'll have no need for it if you use 0.5 micron diamonds.

If you notice what paul does, he uses three grits of hones all on the lower end starting with 250 grit, ending with 1200 I think, then uses the green stick later and really beats on it. If you want to duplicate his system, I'd buy the ezlap stones he uses (they're not too expensive) and do just what he does.

I have seen several other people say they're very happy with ezlap stones that have several years of sharpening time on them.

You could replace his use of green stuff on hard leather with 0.5 micron diamonds on a plate if you'd like, but I don't know why you'd need to. the green stuff is cheap, easy to use and it will polish any kind of steel pretty easily.

If you had coarse diamonds loose in the same grits as paul's system, I'm pretty sure you'd end up with contamination on the plates.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Do you have/plan on using a grinder? If you do, I'm not sure you need 3 grits.

I have 1" grinder but no room for permanent setup, plus I find it appealing not to switch gears... with stones I'd be doing the same thing, just in different grits.


If you had coarse diamonds loose in the same grits as paul's system, I'm pretty sure you'd end up with contamination on the plates.

I assume MDF would not be a suitable surface for coarse diamonds? Curiosity got better of me and I already have a set of 12 inexpensive tubes of diamond compound from eBay.

From eze-lap.com: "When your job requires a surface that will sharpen quickly, but still leave a high quality finish (suitable for shaving), we offer a medium (400) grit diamond. " :eek:

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

I agree with David. If you are going to try Mr. Sellers brand of sharpening, I'd do what he does ON what he uses. I too think no matter how hard you try, the compound is going to cross contaminate. If it doesn't, your probably moving slower than a snail, cleaning fastidiously every time . . . which would also be annoying as heck.

Buy some of the ezlap or DMT stones and let us know how you like it!

Good luck.

[Shaun Mahood]

I'm using Paul Sellers' methods with a DMT diamond stone, medium spyderco, ultra fine spyderco and finally a strop with LV green compound. I don't see why it would matter what you are using for the pre-strop portion, as it seems to me that the bevel is basically there to be quick, easy to replicate, and to support a really good stropping with less risk of dubbing the edge. I could be wrong about that but it seems to work well for me (I know there is also a component of keeping a stronger edge, but I wouldn't be able to tell either way).

I would just make a strop for the last step and use whatever other stones I had to accomplish the rest. I woukd keep your experiments with loose diamonds separate, since otherwise you'll never know whether it was the sharpening method or materials that failed if you aren't satisfied with the results. I haven't used my jigs once since moving over.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

It only matters what I use pre-strop in the sense that I'm trying to accomplish 2 things: get rid of the jig (without hollow grind), but also get rid if water mess, setup and cleanup.

So for the second problem I'm going to switch to DiaSharp (since LV sells them locally so easier to deal with problems than EZE-LAP) and see where that takes me. Looking at Paul Sellers' video, there seems much less mess than water stones (even ceramic ones that need little water) and no flattening, and all together seems more conducive to a sharpening on the fly since I can just put the sharpening "board" aside when I'm done without being required to clean it all up after every short shop session (right now sharpening happens on top of our chest freezer, so I can't just leave Shaptons and dirty water there when I'm done - so I just avoid sharpening and switch to another tool when I have to... and than I avoid the shop for a couple of days because I don't feel like sharpening a dozen blades)

Thanks for great replies, as is always the case here.

[David Weaver]

There will be a little less mess, but if the fluid you use is viscous, it'll be a little harder to get all of the black off of a chisel before you go to put it to wood. It's a trade off.

The one thing about shaptons is that the swarf is so concentrated black that your hands really get stained black from them if you do something like flattening an iron. Any oil-type lubricant will make it easier to get the stuff off your hands for some reason, but you'll have to be a little more thorough wiping the tools.

Loose diamonds generally go on cast or mild steel because they are just the right hardness to allow the diamonds to sink in, but not so much that they just get pushed all the way down in the substrate. you can use MDF with your really fine diamonds and probably get really good results. The diamonds in the coarser range will just maul the surfaces of MDF, and you'll end up using a lot more.

I can tell from shaving that I like the edge that I get with green chromium oxide off of balsa or something like that (which is probably too sensitive for tools, and it would become loaded soon anyway) than I like the edge with slightly finer grit rating diamonds (0.5 pure green chromium oxide powder vs. 0.1-0.25 diamonds). Green chromium on MDF is probably the wisest finisher, because it gives a super-fine edge, cuts everything, and the biggest threat to anything nearby is that something will turn green (and it's cheap, $11 for 4 ounces). The green stick might be slightly less fine, but it still gives an edge in use that as far as I can judge is at least as good as the edge off of a 30,000 shapton. With 0.5 powder, the edge is actually better, but there is a level of screwing around to be that precise that's total nonsense for woodworking.

Stu's (sigma power's) 13k stone is the finest grit stone that I can think of that's not in the stratosphere on price, and if you decide to, you could easily replace the green chromium strop with it if you find you have issues with strop contamination.

[Darren Brewster]

There will be a little less mess, but if the fluid you use is viscous, it'll be a little harder to get all of the black off of a chisel before you go to put it to wood. It's a trade off.

If you are speaking to diamond stones, I much prefer using baby oil as the fluid over water. I found them to be even less messy that way, and they were already pretty tidy with using water. I also preferred the feel of the stone with oil, plus you don't have to worry about rust as much.


Stu's (sigma power's) 13k stone is the finest grit stone that I can think of that's not in the stratosphere on price, and if you decide to, you could easily replace the green chromium strop with it if you find you have issues with strop contamination.

I have Stu's three stone set and finish with the 13k. It gives a great edge. But I also use green crayon on mdf when I am working to maintain the edge, as where I work wood (outside in my storage shed), and where I sharpen (the kitchen sink) are not near each other at all. As long as the edge isn't too far gone, the crayon brings it back to hair popping shop pretty quickly.

The best part about using Paul Sellers sharpening method on good water stones is that you can use a lot of pressure, which gets the job done extremely fast. Using a lot of pressure on diamond stones will just wreck them according to the manufacturers.

[Shaun Mahood]

Marko, I haven't used the finer grit diamond stones but in terms of mess there is very little on my coarse one. The spyderco stones that I have work just as well as the diamond for keeping the mess down (quick spray, same as the diamond stone). I think you will love your new setup.
I built a quick stone holder similar to the one Paul Sellers uses, and set my strop up in a portable vise (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=31144&cat=1,41659,41665&ap=1). It would be the first thing I made if I switched stones, since it keeps it all together and is really easy to move out of the way when I need the bench space. I wanted basically the same thing as you, and my sharpening has become way easier, more fun, and more frequent. I also have no bench grinder and have not had a problem yet.

[bill tindall]

I have been using diamond media for about 10 years now. It is easily the easiest and cheapest means to sharpening. There is a lot to say and I have said it many times on the WoodCentral Forum. To summarize:
Loose diamonds will most assuredly cross contaminate plates. Cast iron is the best substrate for loose diamonds. It has been used literally for centuries for this application and it was the substrate recommended universally when I was researching this topic. You don't need many grits.

I have experimented with many variations and this is what I have settled on: Hollow grind with 6, 7 or 8" wheel. Straighten and refine edge with a "fine" Easy Lap plate. I like the 12" ones. Lub plate with a spritz of water with or without some surfactant (I use water soluble machining lubricant diluted 1/10 but a bit of detergent might do as well). You will find that it very easy to register the bevel of the tool on the plate and keep it registered as you pull the tool to you- pull, lift, reposition, pull again. When edge is straight, move to 1 micron paste on cast iron. Use same pulling stroke as before. Lube plate with WD 40. A 2-3mm "worm" of paste will charge a 12" plate

[bill tindall]

PS Skewing the tool wile pulling will help keep tool bevel registered to surface. With the cast iron the tool will suck down on the plate surface and keeping the bevel registered is trivial. This approached eliminated the need for jigs in my hands and I am not that handy.