Hiding drawer grooves in the DT Joinery...

[Roy Wall]

Well,

Mark Stutz recent thread on stopped dados got me thinking....

On a half - blind dovetail, it appears one can "hide" the drawer bottom groove (dado) by placing in within the tail of the sides and since the tail is half-blind; it will be concealed..

However, on a "through dovetail" --- does one have to "stop the dado" within the tail so it doesn't poke thru and be seen on the face of the drawer front??? I realize one can put a "face" front drawer over the drawer frame, but in case you want the effect of through DT's showing off.....

Am I losing it:eek: ???

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Roy-


Yes indeed, you can stop the groove (not dado, a dado is cross grain) within the tail, just as you would when making a dovetailed box. It's simple enough with either a Plow plane or a Stanley #45 or #55 or any of the other types of plows. I've even on occasion used a #71 router and a chisel.

[Mark Stutz]

Dave,
I'm having trouble visualizing using a plow plane for the stopped groove. Given the cutters are 2-3 inches from the end of the plane , I'm having trouble visualizing it. It seems that each pass would be a little shorter than the one before, and would end 3 inches from the end of the board. What am I missing?

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Mark- You are correct, lots of the work has to be completed with a router plane and/or a chisel. It's just that the plow saves a bunch of time over just the router plane alone. Then there's the non-neander way, but we won't go there.

[John Keeling]

You could also use a mitered 1/2 pin on your dovetail to hide it since the groove would be in the mitered section.
This is a box side that I made a year or two ago and is the top and bottom of the box which was then cut apart after it was constructed.

John, NY

[Tim Sproul]

For me, it isn't a problem. If I do through dovetails for a drawer, the front will get another piece of wood laminated on....kind of a cheat way to do half-blinds and a good way to make precious "show" woods last longer.

[Roy Wall]

Then there's the non-neander way, but we won't go there.

LOL!!! Since I don't have the plough or #45, #55....I....was probably going to let the TS (shhhh:eek: ) handle this one- with a little neander cleanup:cool:

Tim S. - yes, a good option for sure. I"ve heard of it....does it really look like the real deal??


Additional question: does one usually groove the back drawer face too or just trim the back to shorter depth so its flush (even) with the bottom...

You guys are good:cool:

[Mark Singer]

Roy,

With machines, use a routertable and set a stop block from the front...the back plows through. Remember the drawer sides are OPP Hand or mirror images...so reverse it.


LOL!!! Since I don't have the plough or #45, #55....I....was probably going to let the TS (shhhh:eek: ) handle this one- with a little neander cleanup:cool:

Tim S. - yes, a good option for sure. I"ve heard of it....does it really look like the real deal??


Additional question: does one usually groove the back drawer face too or just trim the back to shorter depth so its flush (even) with the bottom...

You guys are good:cool:

[Roy Wall]

Roy,

With machines, use a routertable and set a stop block from the front...the back plows through. Remember the drawer sides are OPP Hand or mirror images...so reverse it.

Good point--- I think I'll lay out and mark all the tails for the sides, put it on an assembly table for reference, and then feed the appropriate sides thru...

[Pam Niedermayer]

John Keeling, how do you cut the tail second up from the groove?

Thanks,
Pam

[Tim Sproul]

Tim S. - yes, a good option for sure. I"ve heard of it....does it really look like the real deal??

If you resaw the front it normally does look like the real deal unless you really butcher the resaw. Be more careful if the drawer front is quartersawn since the grain pattern on the edge will be plainsawn and resawing is easier to notice on plainsawn surfaces compared to quartersawn surfaces. Or you can always forget resawing and really make it obvious by putting a Jatoba front onto a poplar drawer.



Additional question: does one usually groove the back drawer face too or just trim the back to shorter depth so its flush (even) with the bottom...

For solid wood bottoms, rip the back of the drawer so it is flush with the top surface of the drawer bottom. For plywood bottoms, you can do it either way.

[John Keeling]

Pam I'm not sure I understand the question... so don't think i'm being flippant or sarcastic.

All of the tails and pins are cut with handsaw and chisels. The sides of the mitered sections are straight. All of the miters are the last things to be cut.

If i'm not answering you question please reiterate.

Thanks

John

[Mark Singer]

Roy you only need to worry about the fronts. Inthe back you can raise the first pin above the drawer bottom. Stop the groove 1/4" from the front to end in the drawer front...If it is at least 3/8 thick.

In the pic the lowest pin is raised to lay on the drawer bottom. That way you avoid the ugly slot on the back...just start your pin fron the drawer bottom groove
Good point--- I think I'll lay out and mark all the tails for the sides, put it on an assembly table for reference, and then feed the appropriate sides thru...

[John Keeling]

Pam

were you asking what the other side looked like?
The joint takes careful layout and the 3D CAD renderings were definately useful in visualizing the tails/pins and waste. Otherwise there is nothing complicated about the joint, just takes a little more care than simple dovetails.

John, NY

[Mark Singer]

The wood version looks like this...This is a large bench....the lens cap gives you an idea of size...The CAD model is different and will give you another visible "dwarf" pin next to the mitered pin....it should blend to the first tail

[Roy Wall]

Mark,

Nice joinery....Is that a sitting bench that will support a lot of weight? Like some seating at the foot of the bed, for example???

[Jerry Palmer]

I think what she was asking was about the ramped portion of the tail on other than the edge pieces. Guess probably a fairly long chisel and a 45 degree guide block to index the back of the chisel to. Anyway, that would be my method.


One of these days I'm gonna give a true half blind DT a shot, until then I use Tim's method.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Yes, Jerry, I was asking about the ramped tail.

Pam

[John Keeling]

Yeah, like Jerry said... I used a 45 deg. cut block clamped to the work to help me with all of the mitered sections. That particular chamfer is only there because I made the top and bottom of the box in one piece and then cut them apart.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Thanks, John, you answered my next question in advance. :)

Pam