Gas Prices? What's it coming to.

[Dennis Peacock]

Found this little pic today and got a chuckle from it. Thought it was quiet appropriate. :rolleyes: :)

[Steve Knowlton]

How True. In Our Little Town, The Gas Price Hasjumped About $.03 Every Other Day For A Week. Go Figure That One Out.

[Ted Shrader]

Or this one.... :p :) :mad: :)

Ted

[Jeff Sudmeier]

:) Gotta love the pics. It does feel like some of them!

[Bob Weisner]

What gets me is that when you see the tanker truck delivering gas to the gas station the price does not change. Yet, the price of oil could go up 2 days later and the gas station raises the price of a gallon of gas only then, :( even though the gas that is in their storage tanks was bought at a lower price.


Bob

[Nick Gattuccio]

And do you want to know why?

"The giant oil companies just announced record profits for 2004. Exxon Mobil, the biggest oil company in the world, had after-tax profits of 26 billion dollars last year on its ongoing operations, up 52 per cent from 2003. ChevronTexaco had 13 billion dollars in profits, up 85 per cent from a year ago. And Shell Oil had profits of 19 billion dollars, up 48 per cent from 2003.
That $2 per gallon of gas and those $400 a month heating bills? Right from our pockets to theirs!"

A bit more here: http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core_other_issues/001541.html

Nothing quite like a friendly administration and some Middle-East warfare to fuel a boom.

[Michael Perata]

even though the gas that is in their storage tanks was bought at a lower price.
Bob
It's called replacement value pricing. If you have a gallon of gas in your UST at $1.00 cost but you'll have to replace the gallon next week at $1.50 cost, then you need to sell your current gallon at $1.50 so you can buy next week's gallon.

It works in reverse also, but no where near as fast.

[Darren Ford]

Its supply and demand Nick, not politics. Give capitalism a chance.

[Bob Weisner]

I think the supply is there and of course the demand for oil is there. What I think is the biggest problem is the lack of refining capacity in the USA. The oil companies need to build more oil refineries to be able to refine the crude oil that is being produced. That , I believe, is the bottleneck in the gasoline supply issue.

Bob

[Michael Perata]

The oil companies need to build more oil refineries to be able to refine the crude oil that is being produced.
Bob
When you or your neighbors (and my neighbors) are willing to have a refinery built in their backyard, then we will have more refineries.

I live on one of the world's great ports, the San Francisco Bay, but do you think we could get another refinery built here - I think not!

Do you think we could get a LNG terminal built anywhere on the west coast - I think not!

We want our cake, but soon won't be able to bake it.

[Tyler Howell]

We're kinda spoiled. $4.00/gal in Europe 6.00/gal in Tahiti:eek: Been that way for years.

[Darren Ford]

Bob you are correct on both counts, I did not mean to indicate a lack of supply of crude -- the refinery issue is the reason behind supply problems, and the high prices. Crude prices affect us of course, but everything I have read indicates refineries are the bottleneck. If you notice, a jump in crude eventually effects the price at the pump, but an issue with a refinery is almost immediately reflected at the pump.


Tyler, I've heard about the price of gasoline in other parts of the world, do you know the reason? I've heard the taxes are alot higher, but cost of production could be a factor as well. It could also be that our free-market system keeps our prices low. Score another for capitalism :)

[Cecil Arnold]

When you or your neighbors (and my neighbors) are willing to have a refinery built in their backyard, then we will have more refineries.

I live on one of the world's great ports, the San Francisco Bay, but do you think we could get another refinery built here - I think not!

Do you think we could get a LNG terminal built anywhere on the west coast - I think not!

We want our cake, but soon won't be able to bake it.

Be thankful that you won't get a LNG terminal. The last study I read said that an LNG carrier explosion in someplace like New York Harbor would be as bad as a med. sized nuke. And don't beleave all you read about carrier safety. Remember, industry said they didn't need double hulls on the Exxon Valdez. Living in the middle of the Texas Gulf Coast, I can't recall a new refinery being built in the past 50 or so years. Most of them get some badly needed maintainance, but as BP/Amoco (Texas City) proved last week they still aren't safe enough to have one in your back yard. Unfortunately, all these compnaies hold the small towns captive with the threat of 'let us do as we please or we'll move someplace where they will.' The towns beleive them and they go on their merry way. You should live around these places. It is a good year when only one of them has a small explosion. Then there is the majical chain link fence, you know, we had a release but it was contained. That's one heck of a fence. Enough rant, prices are too high, and to some extent speculators, greed, and out pick-ups are to blame.

[Randy Meijer]

Nobody complains about paying $2 for a gallon of COKE. It is nothing more than water with a little sugar added to it. It rots your teeth and shortens your life because of the pounds it adds.

No doubt we Americans are spoiled!! Ever wonder why you see so many folks on bicycles in foreign countries??

[Bob Weisner]

And people will still pay over $50.00 for a carton of cigarettes :confused:

Bob

[Steven Wilson]

Tyler, I've heard about the price of gasoline in other parts of the world, do you know the reason? I've heard the taxes are alot higher, but cost of production could be a factor as well. It could also be that our free-market system keeps our prices low. Score another for capitalism

It's predominately taxes. In some parts (like Tahiti) it's transportation cost. But for western Europe the cost of gasoline at the refinery gate (i.e. before company specific additives and taxes) is about the same as it is in the USA.

[Christopher Pine]

Nobody complains about paying $2 for a gallon of COKE. It is nothing more than water with a little sugar added to it. It rots your teeth and shortens your life because of the pounds it adds.

No doubt we Americans are spoiled!! Ever wonder why you see so many folks on bicycles in foreign countries??

I understand when people say this... what is the real reason we have had our prices lower than other countries? I don't think it was to spoil us..
I don't use a gallon of coke one way to get to work either!

[Ian Barley]

Darren

In the UK we are currently paying around 88pence per litre. Thats about £4 per (UK) gallon. Thats about $7.50 a gallon.

Most of that is tax. About 80% of the pump price is tax in one form or another. There are a variety of reasons why tax is levied at that sort of rate. The primary one is to discourage use and encourage people to consider the most economical way to use fuel. Whether or not it is true there is a considerable concern about climate change and there is clear evidence that the burning of fossil fuels releases carbon from the geological carbon cycle into the current carbon cycle. The science is reasonably sound that extra carbon in the atmosphere is capable of causing climate to change. It is one of many factors that cause climate to change and is one of the ones that we can exercise some influence over. That is why the governments that have won elections in the UK have followed a higher tax policy. Whether or not I or anybody else agrees they won fair elections in a supply and demand political economy.

The UK operates a higher tax economy than the US and a lower tax economy than some of the other countries in Europe and Scandanavia. The product of that higher taxation is the availability of services "free at the point of delivery" which would not be so under a different system. The tax that I pay on motor fuel is partly what has paid for me to have about $100,000 of surgery in my life without having to pay a seperate insurance or anything at all towards the cost. It is still a capitalistic economy, it just has a different balance between the social and the individual.

[Jerry Clark]

Saw an article yesterday that said oil could go to $105 a barrel and gas could go to $4.00. This is possible because we are so dependant on something that will run completely out, someday. If we all drive fuel efficent vehicles, then the price of gas would be much higher. They gotta make up the difference somewhere. Also shipping will be even more expensive in the future no matter what! No easy answer. I guess we should enjoy the freedom while we can, even though it is expensive.:rolleyes:

[Aaron Kline]

This is possible because we are so dependant on something that will run completely out

You know that's not true, why do you think they make new dinosaurs at Area 51?:D :D

[Bob Weisner]

What would the State and Federal Government do for a fuel tax if a company did come out with a economicaly viable alternative fuel to run cars and trucks with? All that gas tax that goes to fund highway projects would go down the tubes , if an alternative fuel came on the market.

Bob

[Chris Padilla]

We're kinda spoiled. $4.00/gal in Europe 6.00/gal in Tahiti:eek: Been that way for years.

I just got back from Europe and paid from 1.16 E to 1.18 E per liter.

There are about 3.75 l per gal so that is 4.35 E to 4.43 E per gallon.

Factor in the exchange rate if you like (1.33 $/E) and we would pay nearly $6 a gallon in Europe. :eek:

Filling up my BMW 545i over there cost me 72 E!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[JayStPeter]

I think arguing that we shouldn't complain because the rest of the world pays more than us is bogus. Our economy and system is just set up different.
It's one thing to look at the impact of how much more my truck is going to eat per year. In reality, that cost would be easy for me to handle.
But, just think about how much more expensive WWing equipment is going to be (not to mention food) if gas prices double. Think shipping costs are expensive now ... plus there's plenty of shipping costs built in to the prices already.
I don't see any way it's good for us or the economy having gas prices go up significantly. Steel prices are bad enough for us as WW'ers.

Jay

[Donnie Raines]

Not sure what the real answer is here. There seem to be so many ideas on the table it's hard to know which way to commit/agree...if you would. I see that it cost me about 4 bucks more to fill my pickup's tank...it the big picture that is nothing.However, a continueing growth will surely hurt not to mention how it will effect the other things in our lives.

[Mark Singer]

Don't drive to your local shop....order from mail order...no gas, no time, no tax, no traffic and very large selection...

[Dennis McDonaugh]

What would the State and Federal Government do for a fuel tax if a company did come out with a economicaly viable alternative fuel to run cars and trucks with? All that gas tax that goes to fund highway projects would go down the tubes , if an alternative fuel came on the market.

Bob

Bob, I'd expect they'd tax the alternative fuel too, probably before it hit the market.

[Jerry Clark]

REGULAR GAS IS NOW $2.50 here!:mad:

[Scott Parks]

Bought gas Sunday for $2.16. Today (Friday) $2.39! That's 15.3% in 5 days!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

And what's the annual inflation rate???

[Jerry Clark]

Gas --- I saw one station today $2.64 :eek: and a lot are $2.60! Most are around $2.57! This for regular unleaded-- and you get to pump it yourself and wash the windshield. I found a way to fill my tank for only $20! I fill it when it is only one half full instead of empty. :rolleyes:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Small tank Jerry? :eek: ;) :D

[Tom Mullane]

Maybe I am the one that is nuts... but here gas just hit $2.40/gal..not as bad as some parts of the country.. but farmers don't have the income a lot of others have and scrape to get by... but make due..
What really gets me is that is seems that the people making the biggest stink about the gas prices are the same one driving big SUV's, Luxury cars and sports cars with 400+HP engines to work and back every day... In my younger and stupider days I owned a Dodge Charger with a 426 with 2 carbs.. passed everything on the road except gas stations... did I need one... NO WAY.. but I was young and stupid...
I am no older and a little less stupid... and I ask myself do I need a 400HP car to drive back and forth to work.. NO, NO WAY.. I drive a 1995 Ford F150 with a 6 cyl engine... I get where I am going just as quickly as the guy next to me with the SUV and the big V8.. and at a lot better gas economy... Do I want a big V8... NO.. my 6cyl Ford does what I need around the farm also... If I need to pull something really large that is what the tractor is for...
But on the road.. how many of these people with the real big cars are actually using them to tow something ... probably about 5% and I am being generous with that number.... they are buying these cars because the manufacturers are telling them that they need one.. they will look successful in one... they are safer (NO THEY ARE NOT)...
If the American people took a lead from what the average European is driving they would not be crying about how much fuel they are using... with prices in the $7-10/gal range overseas, you are not seeing big SUV's and V8 Luxury cars... the average individual can't afford to drive them.... and you know what... the average individual in this country really can't either...
I would much rather put the money I would have spent on fuel for a big luxury car into my daughter's education or toys for my shop, than into the gas tank...
I think it is time for Americans to have a bit of a wake up call.... we may be one of the richest country's in the world, but that does not mean we can waste our resources and throw money away...
I will now end my rant and hope I have not offended anyone... I love this country, and fought for it, but dang it I really hate to see some of things that are happening here through pure stupidity...

[Christopher Pine]

Well said Tom I agree in general that We as Americans are wasteful .. That is one of the hazards of being wealthy! I say wealthy I mean most americans... We have the richest homeless people on the world! !!!
The third world contries are poor we have nothing to complain about here!
I own two mini vans. I have 4 children that are my life and to accomadate that the mini van is the ideal vehicle. I get 20 mpg on each one very consistently.. I would rather get 60 mpg... but with the size of the vehicle I can't expect that at least not at this point.
My only gripe is the reason the prices are the way they are? Market demand? The old supply and demand problem? Welll maybe a little but to this degree? NO!
We have more suplly this year at this time than last we have more production going on as well... The stock market is dictating this increase I beliveve largely and I think (I hope) like the stock market of the 90's it will level off eventually. The price per barrel has gone down every day for the last 5 days and will hopefully continue for a littl longer.. hopefully prices will level off and again hopefully come down a little as well... problem being is we are just now approaching the high use time for gas so decreases are perhaps unlikely and increases maybe... I hate it as much as everyone and I think just spouting off about it helps :)
THe hybrid cars are looking more interesting all the time...For the gas IO use the hybrid car would essentiaally cut my consumtion more than in half and thusly in principle make gas for me about $1.00 gallon...
If you follow my premise..
Anyway..
Peace!
Chris

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Last week while on vacation and installing the wall and ceiling coverings in my new shop, a friend and former co-worker dropped by for coffee. He left GE to go to Romania where his is still a Baptist missionary. He said we here in the States are spoiled. The same Chinese made plastic "thing" we pay 29 cents for at Walmart locally, he pays sthe equivalent of $2.00 for in Romania. Gas of course is higher.

Tom....A word about SUVs and SUV drivers. Not all are created equal. I've owned 3 SUVs in the last 30 years. I bought my first after my flatlander wife during my work related absences would take our '72 Chevelle, our 3 kids and go on mountain "roads" that were nearly impassible. I knew eventually she'd be stuck, high centered somewhere 50 miles from the nearest paved roads and 70 miles from the nearest town. These types of roads often don't see traffic for weeks and during winter are closed for months. These roads were on the boundaries of various wilderness areas. My last SUV was a 1986 Toyota 4-Runner 4X4 4-cylinder engine that got 25mpg on the highway, bought used, 1 year old, had 160,000+ miles on it and was 17 years old when I retired it. In Lewiston there is an 1100' elevation difference between the downtown area and residential neighborhood where we live. Once in a while, the safest way to get to the downtown area and back is 4WD. I've never bought an SUV for ego/status sake....They are just too darned expensive to own and operate!

As far as safety, most 4X4s have a higher center of gravity and therefore are more inclined to rollover. That's where most people get into trouble! However, all the SUVs I've owned had a "real" frame and are heavier than most cars. If involved in a front end crash with a car, I'll take my SUV everytime. There's something to be said about a stronger frame and greater mass when involved with a smaller vehicle, IMHO.

I currently own an F-350 4X4, 460cid, 4:10 rear end, 5-speed. I bought it used nearly 10 years ago to pull our 5th wheel trailer. The 4X4 was needed as I elk hunt late in the season and due to deep snow often have to chain all 4 wheels up to get out of camp and back to town . I average less than 1,000 miles per year on that truck..it's too expensive to drive often but when I need to haul wood, haul hay, tow a trailer ....it's the ticket!

In short, some SUV owners own and drive SUVs because they fill the need from a practical and safety standpoint!

[Tom Mullane]

Ken, I was not bashing the SUV drivers who really do need them, like the instance you describe on mountain roads..
But here in MD where it is all flat highway and well maintained, what the heck do you need a 400HP SUV to drive 60 miles to work each way....
When I lived in NY and had a camp in the Catskill Mountains, I had a 4x4... there were times I could not get up the road without it and even if I did not need the 4WD to get up the road I needed the ground clearance... Don't need that now and don't own a gas guzzling 4x4....
My problem is with the people who have to have one because it is cool to have one.. or they need to "keep up" with the neighbors...