pocket hole tip

[Steven Triggs]

This isn't earth shattering, but it worked well for me, so I thought I'd share:

I typically have difficulties getting face frame pieces to stay perfectly flush when joining with pocket holes using the kreg clamp that has a large round plate on either side. The other night, it occured to me to try putting the pieces "appearance side" down on the cast iron table saw top, and clamp them with the kreg clamp with one of its plates on the underside of the saw and the other on the screw side of the joint. In other words, the table saw's surface was responsible for keeping the "appearance side" of the pieces flush. It worked perfectly, I literally can not feel the joint.

Anyway, hope this helps someone...

[Steve Griffin]

That would sure work, but most like to use glue (as they should), and that sounds like a bad place to do it.

A good tip for workbench builders is to have a clamp-able perimeter. My 4x8 workbenchs have a 4" overhang, and a 3/4" sub top with a 1/4" replaceable melamine top. Wonderful for building faceframes, or using quickgrips to hold stuff down for other operations.

Another way to go is use a temporary piece of 3/4" melamine on top of your workbench and overhang it enough to use kreg clamps. I like melamine because it's cheap and you can scrap or sand off glue easily.

[Jerome Hanby]

If you keep your table saw table waxed with Johnson's, wouldn't that negate the glue problem?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I keep a roll of waxed paper in my shop. When I am gluing up, I rip off a small piece and put it under the joint. Clean up isn't a problem.

[Troy Turner]

Nice tip! My bench isn't exactly flat. It's seen it's fair share of hammers and clamps, and finish, and stain, and, well you get the idea...

I tried screwing up some trim the other day. I don't mind a little overlap as I was going to flush trim it anyway, but uh, the trim ended up being lower than the ply.

Should've used the table saw ;)

[Kevin Presutti]

I'm in Ken's camp. I have been using waxed paper for years. You can glue and clamp to any flat surface without any worries.

[Rick Christopherson]

The reason why your joints appear flush when you first clamp them, but then come out offset after being screwed, is because the screw initially pushes the two pieces apart as it first begins to pilot into the second piece. Because the screw is at an angle, it pilots the second hole too low from the first.

The first thing to do is set your pocket hole drilling depth a little deeper so the pilot is closer to completely penetrating the first piece. If you can't do that, then use a different means of clamping that will prevent the two workpieces from pushing apart as the screw is initially driven.

[scott vroom]

I clamp my FF pieces to a piece of MDF that I toss onto the table, overhanging the table edge enough to allow use of the Kreg clamp. Joints aren't always perfectly aligned but they're always tight, and I figure on sanding the FF anyway so it's not a problem for me.

[Phil Thien]

The reason why your joints appear flush when you first clamp them, but then come out offset after being screwed, is because the screw initially pushes the two pieces apart as it first begins to pilot into the second piece. Because the screw is at an angle, it pilots the second hole too low from the first.

The first thing to do is set your pocket hole drilling depth a little deeper so the pilot is closer to completely penetrating the first piece. If you can't do that, then use a different means of clamping that will prevent the two workpieces from pushing apart as the screw is initially driven.

+1

I glue the joints, then use f-clamps to assemble the entire face frame. Once I'm sure I have everything aligned perfectly, I tighten the clamps and drive the screws. Once the screws are in, I remove the clamps and set the face frame aside so the glue can set. My joints are always perfectly flush.

[Todd Burch]

At the recent woodworking show, I had a chat with the Kreg demo guy.

My first question to him was "how to obtain the flush joint" for face frame pieces. As he explained his method, I was studying the large wall poster behind him. I clamp like the large wall poster illustrated - bridging (clamping) both pieces with the round face of the Kreg locking (ala vice grip style) clamp. He, however, said he only clamps the piece that receives the screw tips. He said he does it this way because, as the screws start to enter the perpendicular piece, it has a tendency to lift that piece up. However, with the entire force of the clamp holding just that piece down, it won't move at all (not that it would move anyways?) and he said he got better results that way. I have not done any face frames to test out his method yet - maybe later today.

As a side topic, I also asked his method to use pocket screws to hold a face frame on for those cabinets where the outsides of the cabinet would not been seen, and he demoed that for me as well with his scrap pieces that were 6-8 inches long. However, I found fault in his description, as, for a built cabinet that already had the back on, it would be impossible to perform the alignment ritual he demoed. Then he said that he, essentially, builds the face frame first, then builds the cabinet, a side at a time, attaching each piece to the face frame as he goes. I've never seen this method at work.

Todd

[Michael W. Clark]

+1

I glue the joints, then use f-clamps to assemble the entire face frame. Once I'm sure I have everything aligned perfectly, I tighten the clamps and drive the screws. Once the screws are in, I remove the clamps and set the face frame aside so the glue can set. My joints are always perfectly flush.

That's sounds like a good idea. I tend to only use the face clamp (the one with the big clamp pads, vise grip style). Some of my joints are excellent, others are "good'. I think the quality would be more repetative if the pieces are forced together and held flush at the same time. I tend to have more trouble with hardwood frames than softwood frames, especially with splitting the board receiving the pocket screws.

Todd,
I've started building the face frames first too. I read an article somewhere about it and the point was that you can build a kitchen worth of face frames and store them in a relatively small space. The boxes take up a lot of room and thats an issue for me in a small shop. The cabinet box, drawers, and doors can be built from the face frames. I think this works good for kitchen cabinets or where the face frame overhangs the side of the cabinet a little, but I could see the advantage to building the box first if you wanted the FF flush with the sides. It would be alot easier to shave the rails of the FF to flush the case than to re-rip the top/bottom of the case parts to flush them with the FF. I use buiscuits for alignment of the FF on the case for the cabinets I am building now. I made a story stick to locate the pocket holes, buiscits, hinges, and FF screws for connecting the cabinets together so they don't interfere with each other. I'm sure there is a better way and I'll probably do it differently next time. Doing things the same way twice just makes too much sense.:)
Mike

[Phil Thien]

I tend to have more trouble with hardwood frames than softwood frames, especially with splitting the board receiving the pocket screws.

...

Mike

I have had that happen with walnut. I've read that I should be more careful about the grain direction of the stiles. I've always selected the faces that look best, but in doing so may be sending my screws into grain that is more likely to split out.

[scott vroom]

I always drill pilot holes to avoid the splitting that often occurs when driving the screw.



I have had that happen with walnut. I've read that I should be more careful about the grain direction of the stiles. I've always selected the faces that look best, but in doing so may be sending my screws into grain that is more likely to split out.

[J.R. Rutter]

I built a table saw outfeed table with a clamping lip around two sides - basically 2 layers of MDO. I have a C clamp that has a 1-1/4" or so disc on the end of the screw that bridges the joint nicely. The C clamp is very secure and easy to adjust, but the Kreg vise grip would work as well. The outfeed is waxed so it resists glue, and the table saw helps support large frames. I normally run everything through the widebelt, but we just did some large frames that wouldn't fit through the sander. Pre-sanded the parts and assembled the frames using this table - perfectly flush joints.

[Bas Pluim]

I had issues with the pieces going out of alignment while driving home the screws. As it turns out, it's better to use a regular drill/ driver, not an impact driver. The pocket screw really needs to "drill" its way in, and the impact driver has too much force for that.

[Richard McComas]

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/splitting_stiles.gif

[Phil Thien]

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/splitting_stiles.gif

I'm printing this and putting it up in the shop!

[Kyle Iwamoto]

DItto. Nice graphic. Thanks.