Water stones: Individual vs. combo

[Julian Amin]

I'm looking to buy my first set of water stones. Lee Valley has a basic stone set (w/ separate 800x and 4000x stones) and they also have a combination set (1000x/4000x).

I'm drawn to the combo set because it's 20 bucks cheaper. Any downside to no having a 2-in-1 stone vs two separate ones?

[David Weaver]

At the outset, no great difference. People get concerned about grit contamination (that the coarse grit will end up on the fine stone), but you can mitigate that by just wiping off the surface of the fine stone (by rinsing and just running your hand across it, etc) each time you use it. You get more stone with separate stones, but you'll probably end up with a different stone before you run out that 1000/4000. People regularly use the combination stones in the razor sharpening hobby, and that's not something that tolerates grit contamination well, so that should suggest that it's not going to be a real problem with woodworking stones.

While you're making an order, if that's where your stones stop, order yourself a stick of green "microfine honing compound" at the same time. You'll be able to get edges as good as any with that combination of stuff then.

[Joel Goodman]

The combo gives you less stone thickness and more issues with cross contamination -- for me I'd go for the $20 in this case. You'll probably end up wanting a finer stone, however and I'm a fan of 1000 and 8000 if you only use 2 stones. So if I was looking to save $ I'd think about a Norton 1,000 and 8,000 combo, if the separate stones are too costly.

[Casey Gooding]

About the only issue I would think of would be that the coarser stones will wear a lot faster than the finer ones. Not a performance issue at all, but you will need to replace the coarse stone much sooner than the fine one (although it should still last years). Thankfully, coarse stones are pretty cheap.

[Julian Amin]

The combo gives you less stone thickness and more issues with cross contamination -- for me I'd go for the $20 in this case. You'll probably end up wanting a finer stone, however and I'm a fan of 1000 and 8000 if you only use 2 stones. So if I was looking to save $ I'd think about a Norton 1,000 and 8,000 combo, if the separate stones are too costly.

Thanks everyone. So if i were to go with the 1000/8000 combo, would I be able to do all of my sharpening? Or would I need to use something coarser to being with. Sandpaper perhaps?

[John Coloccia]

The 1000 will wear quickly and dish often when you're using it to reestablish a bevel. Sandpaper would be a good bet in that case, but regardless you will need something to flatten the stone with anyway. If you have a 1000 and 8000 seperates, you could flatten then against each other. I have a 1000/8000 combo and another 1000 that I got just for flattening. Now I use a DMT Duo Course/Fine for flattening, and incidentally that also replaces the utility of the 1000 stone. If you were just to get two things, I would probably get a DMT Course/Fine Duo (Red/Blue dot and get the big one) and an 8000 stone. That's just my opinion.

[Julian Amin]

While you're making an order, if that's where your stones stop, order yourself a stick of green "microfine honing compound" at the same time. You'll be able to get edges as good as any with that combination of stuff then.

If I were to go with the 1000/8000 set, would the green honing compound still be necessary?

[Archie England]

Well, yes and no. Yes, the green honing compound will get your blade bevels even better honed; but, no, because when done right at 8000 grit, you really don't need the green honing paste.

I started with Norton combo stones and loved the 4000/8000 stone. These were great stones for honing. However, I despised the 220 and thought the 1000 was only a marginal improvement over my quality oil stones. I don't really worry about grit contamination, but there were times when the slurry of the 4000 would require a thorough rinse before using the 8000. Back then, I had not discovered the necessity of flattening as frequently as was really necessary. Once you flatten regularly, that takes care of most if not all grit contamination.

BTW, all methods can get you to sharp; hence, all methods work. However, not all work as fast or resist dishing or provide a quality of feedback. It's these other characteristics that some of us will pay the difference for "better-to-us" stones. Enjoy!

[Julian Amin]

Thanks all of your posts have been very helpful. I have (hopefully) one more question. I think I've decided on using 220 grit sandpaper for bevel grinding and stone flattening (until I can afford a diamond stone) along with individual King 1000 and 8000 waterstones.

My question is, is this adequate, or is the jump from 1000 to 8000 to big?

[David Weaver]

You can get along with those two fine. If your honing method makes it seem too big of a jump, then you can adjust your honing method.

Green compound after that would be preference, good technique with bare leather will make an edge that is unintelligibly different (bare leather will literally wear/polish the edge if it's fresh and clean). But green compound gets you there more easily.

[harry hood]

The nice thing about separate stones is that you can dedicate one side to wide blades and one narrow. That way you can waste less stone through flattening if you're careful.

[Jim Matthews]

If you drop the combo stone, you've broken two grits.

[Chris Fournier]

I was in the same place 20 plus years ago. I'm still using the broken 1000/4000 combo in my kitchen to this day. I now no longer have combo stones and don't recommend them unless you intend to be a light usage hobbiest. Single grit stones have been the path I've chosen and I wouldn't change this.

[Jim Koepke]

Julian,

Sharpening discussions will always bring out a multitude of opinions based on individual experiences. The amazing thing to consider is that everyone is right... About what works for them in their shop.

Over the years I have tried many methods to sharpen blades. I have pretty much settled on three grits for water stones, 1000, 4000 and 8000. I also strop with some green compound.

Most of the time my blades are only honed on the 4000 and 8000 stones. If there is a nick or chip, that can usually be addressed with the 1000 stone. Jumping from 1000 to 8000 can be done. My results seem to be better when a few quick swipes are performed on the 4000 instead of taking the long leap.

I do have a combo stone but do not use it as much as my single grit stones. Mostly now it is reserved for gouges and other curved blades.

If a blade needs more work than can quickly be done on a 1000 stone, my preference is to use abrasive paper. Jumping from 180 grit abrasive paper to a 1000 stone is not that big of a leap.

If your funds are currently a bit on the tight side a combo stone may be your best choice. My recommendation for you would be to purchase a 4000/8000 stone and then a separate 1000 stone. Of course, if you can afford the cost, then a three stone set would be my choice.

Your choice will have to be determined by you balancing out how much you will be using your stones vs how much strain your wallet can absorb.

To paraphrase Edward Murrow, "If you aren't totally confused, you just don't understand the situation."

jtk

[Julian Amin]

Your choice will have to be determined by you balancing out how much you will be using your stones vs how much strain your wallet can absorb.



Thanks, Jim. For someone interested in woodworking as a weekend hobby, about how long will a single grit 1000 grit water stone last? I realize that question is far too vague to answer precisely, but I'd appreciate hearing what others' experiences have been regarding waterstone wear relative to the amount of sharpening you do.

[Joel Goodman]

I'll jump in here -- the stones -- even the "fast wearing" coarse ones last a long time for the weekend warrior (who misses some weekends). On the 1000 to 8000 grit jump -- it's fine if you use a guide and microbevel. Lie Nielsen has on their website instructions for a "setting jig" for setting a simple cheap Elipse style guide. It's here - http://www.lie-nielsen.com/pdf/AngleSettingJig.pdf Also look at http://www.lie-nielsen.com/pdf/Sharpening.pdf They are fans of the "ruler trick" for the back of the iron. Some like it some don't -- I don't see the point of it. Another option is a 1200 DMT and then 8000 stone. Then you avoid flattening the 1000 stone which dishes more than the 8000. Once you get a system working for you you'll be amazed how fast the process is. And sharpen early, when it's just a touch up. Many ways to go -- most will get you there.

[Jim Koepke]

For someone interested in woodworking as a weekend hobby, about how long will a single grit 1000 grit water stone last?

I have had mine for a few years now without appreciable wear. Then again I do as Joel suggest and sharpen regularly on my 8000 or 4000 if it has gone awhile.

Getting to know when a blade needs sharpening is the trick. My Hock blades seem to make great shavings even when they are a little bit dull. Same seems true for my A1 or A2 blades. Usually they are most noticeable when the edge gets a chip and leaves a line.

If you only have a few tools and don't make a habit of bringing home every chisel or plane you find at yard sales and flea markets, you should get a good long life from a 1000 stone.

That is why I suggest not trying to save every last penny in your stone buying decision. What ever you purchase, you will hopefully be happily using for years to come.

jtk

[Trevor Walsh]

To answer wearability questions of stones, I've got a Norton combo set from Peachtree two years ago, 500/1000 and 4K/8K I flatten after every use and sharpen something on them about once a week. Sometimes I have big sharpening days and have to flatten 2 times while working. They still have a ton of life in them. I'd imagine a single grit stone might last 8 years in my shop if it was 4-8K the 250 probably not as long but Japan woodworker sells an 8x3x2.5 250 stone I think for like $60? that would last a while.