Interview with Wayne Miller of Badger Pond

[Kim Carleton Graves]

Hi Gang,

For those of you who are interested, I did an interview with Wayne Miller (webmaster of Badger Pond) that has been published on the Fine Woodworking Website. (see: <A HREF="http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00138.asp ">this link</A>. It may eventually be published in the magazine.

Regards,

Kim Carleton Graves
Carleton Woodworking School

[Halsey MCCombs]

Nice write up Kim.It was nice to know the behind the scene idea that made BP a fine forum. Halsey

[Dave Avery]

Kim,

Great job on the write-up..... you captured Wayne's unique perspective perfectly.

While I enjoyed BP very much, I disagree with his perspective. SMC and WC thrive in a mostly unmoderated environment. Those participating in the respective forums (fora?) moderate the forum. People of like perspectives and manner tend to gravitate toward one another.

SMC and WC are very different than The Oak. Not better, just different (and more to my liking). The Oak is to the liking of those who post there and it tends to attract its own following. While I fit in there less than here or WC, The Oak is a valuable woodworking resource with some extremely talented posters. It's also extremely popular as measured by the number of posts.
Not better, not worse, just attracts a different crowd.

[Bruce Page]

I didn’t always agree with Wayne’s rules or methods, but I always knew whose house I was in, and what to expect.


In the ’60s people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal. – Unattributed

[Rob in Winnipeg]

Very nice interview Kim.

I was a regular reader of Badger Pond, pretty much from the beginning. Though, I didn't post often, I felt like a part of Wayne's community. It's not quite the same with this forum. I read it every day, but this is my first post. Maybe that same sense of community will develop some day.

[Jason Roehl]

Thanks for doing that and sharing it with us, Kim! While all may not agree with how Wayne ran things, I certainly hope we can agree with him about taking the sense of community with us whereever we go.

[Mark Hulette]

Nice write up Kim! Look out Barbara Walters!!!

Plus I don't think I'd seen a picture of Wayne before. He looks NOTHING like I thought he would.

[Jason Roehl]

Originally posted by Mark Hulette
Nice write up Kim! Look out Barbara Walters!!!

Plus I don't think I'd seen a picture of Wayne before. He looks NOTHING like I thought he would.

He had some pics on his personal website (attached to BP, I think?), but in those, I think he had a black moustache, so the salt-and-pepper beard sure changed the look.

[Mark Hulette]

Jason,
I do remember seeing pics of some of his dogs but honestly don't remember browsing his personal site. I had the Power Tools Forum bookmarked and usually went straight there without many detours except to the articles and members website sections.

[David Ripley]

Nice job Kim. I loved the pond and the way Wayne ran it. By the size of it , I was`nt alone. You need rules and some order in this World of today. Again thanks Kim and thanks Wayne where ever you are. David

Support our troops & Country

[Stan Smith]

I was one of those guys who was on the compuserve forum back when it was sponsored by Family Handyman. Great bunch of people there, too. Some did come onto Badger Pond as did I when it first started. Once a group is broken up, the reconstruction is never the same as the original (good or bad).

To me, an interesting aspect of your interview was Wayne's comments about a goal of building a community (which he did with great success). While I can completely understand Wayne wanting to go on to other things, it still baffles me why he would want to let the community disperse given that there were people who would have been willing to take over and possibly provide financial consideration. While I was disappointed to see the demise of The Pond, there were others who were quite emotional about it.

[Dave Anderson]

Kim,
Nice article that helped me understand "the rest of the story."

Disappointed and a bit miffed that I and all the other Ponders were viewed by Wayne as an "experiment."

While Wayne insists his goal was to build a community and that once his thesis was proved (a strictly monitored forum shall result in a community), the experiment was over - I don't like that I was just a Lab Rat, discarded at the conclusion of an experiment.

His idea, his experiment -- to Hell with the community and the people who bought into it.:mad:

In the end Wayne was like a spoiled child who picked up his Jacks and went home. For others, like me, who bought into the community thing lock, stock and barrel - Wayne, without a second thought, left us homeless. But he is VERY proud of himself!

I have to stop now because I'm getting more pissed with every word typed. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Bob Boake]

Wayne states that the pond is not transferable when it obviously is.I would have liked to see the interviewer follow with another question regarding his views on closing the pond.

[Keith Outten]

There were several people who contacted Wayne and asked to negotiate a transfer of Badger Pond, I was one of them. Wayne said the files were too large and I think he gave me several other reasons but the real reason i my opinion was that Wayne wanted to do it his way, the same as he ran the Pond. Surely it was his choice but he really didn't give any thought to the people who made his experiment so successful.

I would hope that if he had a chance to do it again he would handle the Pond ending differently. He had to see in the end how many people were really hurt and it really was unnecessary. Consider how many hours or thousands of hours people spent typing messages and answering questions, the resource was wasted in my opinion. I know the files are still online but I would bet that they are Dead! What a waste.

I don't have any hard feelings, I trruly enjoyed the Pond and I know how much work and expense Wayne invested. Considering the length of time the Pond was online his accomplishment was significant. I doubt that anyone else would have done an interview with a major woodworking magazine and admitted that Badger Pond was an experiment, this showed a total lack of respect for the people who belonged to Badger Pond.

My opinion as an xPonder.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I enjoyed the Pond and my years there, and truly appreciated the civil tone and the community which developed. The issue has been raised about Wayne's "experiment". I could be wrong, but I prefer to think of Wayne's use of the word in the positive sense, such as the notion that all of life is an experiment. Any new undertaking is an experiment in that we have no way of predicting the results. Remember that while many of us criticized either openly or in our own minds at least a few of Wayne's judgements, rulings, or ways of doing things, we mostly agreed that his site was one of the best around and we all enjoyed and benefited from it. I prefer to think well of Wayne and give him the benefit of the doubt when we analyze the meaning behind his words. Remember how incredibly easy it is to misinterpret the written word when some one posts either here or elsewhere, and how often we read or imagine some meaning which was not intended by the writer or the speaker.

I will close by saying that the past has passed and I personally have my eye and my hopes on our future.

[Steven Wilson]

Nice interview as far as it went. There was a darker side to the pond. For all the talk about "rules", Wayne didn't follow his own policies; bansih people without warning (his rules state differently), playing games with IP address filtering for email (so that wayne wouldn't receive an email from someone with a question), etc. Wayne's ego trip in woodworking is over and the pond is dead - good riddence.

[Eric Apple - Central IN]

to big to transfer ? anyone in IT knows that's not true, but it's more p.c. they saying I just don't want to do it. I think he said something like 20 GB. That's a lot of text, a single LTO tape holds 400GB or 20 such size objects. BP was a great community made by it's members. I have to think the final actions were just a general lack of respect for the community. But it is in line with "running an experiment" where the community are subjects of the experiment. The whole thing sounds like a SIM game that Jack Rosenberg would sell at Forum. Maybe the message was was lost with me with the references to "experiment" in the interview. I appreciate the great experience with fellow BPers who are all great people and glad someone provided the work to make it possible. I will avoid anything commercial or free from the sysop in the future, I wouldn't want to provide any further "study".

[Stan Smith]

I think this forum has great potential for community building for those who want it.

One thing that has always puzzled me is how some people have time to be on the forums all the time. I'm retired and if I spent as much time on the forum as some people do, I would never have any time to do any woodworking.

[John Miliunas]

When I first saw this thread, I said to myself, "Self. Stay away from this one. Your big mouth will get you into trouble." Well, as it happens, I don't always listen to everyone, even myself. As it's been stated by many, I try and retain fond memories of the Pond, its members and the wealth of information I've gained from it. I thank Wayne for having provided the site.

On the dark side, had I known I was part of an ongoing experiment, I may have found another "home". Heck, for all I know, his statements on that interview are all part of the same experiment. Maybe he's *expecting* comments, both positive and negative to further whatever findings or conclusions he's theorized. So be it. I only found the Pond about a year before Wayne so unceremoniously pulled the plug and drained it. It took close to that year to start finding out how he was actually pulling the strings on all the puppets who called themselves "Ponders". A cyber friend had his ability to post out there pulled simply because his views differed from Mr. Miller's and he attempted to convey this to him *privately* via email! I have since heard many more stories similar to this.

So Wayne, if you are reading this (and I trust you are), thanks for offering us a piece of cyber space. But I think that, as many have said, the Pond wasn't a community which you built, but instead, one which built itself. Actually, it was a community which rose to great numbers, not as much due to your efforts, but rather, in spite of you and your lopsided way of ruling it. It's really too bad you look upon us as merely participants of an experiment. I have faith that those who are running SMC or those at WC are truly caring people who care about other people, NOT conducting experiments! :cool:

[chris toomey]

first kim, i think you took it a little too easy on him. but if you were going to ask tough questions, i doubt he would have agreed to an interview.

secondly all this talk of badger pond( good or bad) continues to feed his huge ego. wayne was an egotistical maniac. he wanted to take his ball and go home. SO LET HIM! lets show we can play without him, please. he had no respect for you. why continue to pay homage to him?

[Ron Meadows]

Very well said Chris!! I agree 150%......just let it go.

This place is much better anyway.

[Phil Phelps]

....as time goes by and, I get older, and see our youth do such STUPID things. Makes me sad. Then I read posts from John, Chris, and Ron. There is light at the end of the tunnel :)