solid wood

[Keith Christopher]

I need to make two cabinets, the client wants the made from solid wood. No ply no veneers. Seems simple my question is this, how to join these sides back bottom and top (face frame on the front I think I have nailed down.) and allow for wood movement ? Can I use pocket screws ? These will be display cabinets for the windows of a store in a very popular mall so wood splitting from movement is a BIG no - no. It will be either made from BE maple or curly maple (hasn't decided) Looking for suggestions. I don't want to start assembling it like I would mela or ply and have it split in like 2-3 months. perhaps I can build it like that but oddly enough I have never made solid wood sides and backs. cabinet dimensions are 2' deep, 4' high and 4' wide. 8 drawers.


suggestions / comments appreciated.

[Mark Singer]

The bath cabinet I made was all solid wood....check that link...


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14202&highlight=bath+cabinet

[Mike Cutler]

Keith. How big? and what general style? My first intuition is to go with frame and panel, and allow the panels to float. Sort of like kitchen cabinets but on a different scale.
I know it can be done, I've seen enough examples of this sort of thing, I'm thinking kinda like Thomas Moser here.
I'm sure someone here can point you in a better direction than me :rolleyes:

[Keith Christopher]

The bath cabinet I made was all solid wood....check that link...


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14202&highlight=bath+cabinet

Mark,

I know ou used dowels for the sides. What do you think about lock mitre joints ?
This will have to be seen from all sides so I'm wanting to reduce end grain viewing as much as possible.

Keith

[Steve Cox]

Keith,
As far as the sides/top/bottom are concerned there is no problem with wood movement as long as the grain all runs the same direction. The problem with wood movement is when the wood is not allowed to move such as in cross grain construction. As far as joining them together just about any method would work. Personally I would probably use biscuits and miter the corner since I have a plate joiner and don't have a lock miter bit. As for the back, it depends on how finished you want it to be. Shiplapped boards in a rabbet are fast, easy and look pretty good. Frame and panel in a rabbet or applied to the carcase like you would the face frame on the front will give a fancier appearance.

[Todd Burch]

Call me paranoid, but I'm always suspect of requests like this. I've yet to accept a commission from a prospect that laid down the law about construction, materials or finishing. I make the assumption that if someone comes to me to make something, they probably can't or don't know how to make it themselves, therefore I, again, assume that I am the expert, and ask them to explain their requirements.

Saying "Walnut" or "Birdseye Maple" is fine in regard to materials, but saying "solid wood only - no ply, no veneers", I always ask why. Then, I ask them, in more words than this, if they are prepared to pay double for the extra costs, time, and hassle factor.

About a month ago, I had a guy call me from California to reproduce the red-stained Cherry bathroom cabinets I made last year. He wanted the same "exact" product, but all solid wood only, with 2 coats of tung oil and 3 coats of poly for the finish - but he wanted it the same "red" color he saw on the web. And different dimensions too, and shipped to California. And BOY was he persistent. I turned him down. WAY too much hassle factor.

Good luck!!

P.S. FWIW, My bid would start at $3K each. :)

[Mark Singer]

Keith,

I don't like using the lock miter router bit. You can miter the cacass and use blind dowels or bisquits or even pocket screws on the inside. You could dovetail the carcass which is a little more time consuming. If you use dowels make a dowel jig template and screw it to the edge remember to flip it over to mirror the dowel pattern...
Mark,


I know ou used dowels for the sides. What do you think about lock mitre joints ?
This will have to be seen from all sides so I'm wanting to reduce end grain viewing as much as possible.

Keith

[Charlie Plesums]

I, too, would worry about the demand for solid wood. With fancy wood like birds eye or curly maple, you can be much more dramatic with book matched pieces you cut, or with veneer on a good base.

If you build a cabinet with all the grain vertical, no problem until you attach the top, where the grain is crosswides with the sides. My favorite technique there is to drill a pocket hole, but cut a biscuit slot into the same hole, so the pocket screw can slide if necessary with the wood movement.

The other zinger is drawer runners (if he is being this fancy, he probably wants wood drawer runners, not the metal type). The runners are cross grain to the sides, so I put a frame between the drawers, glued at front and back, with a mortise and tenon (no glue) holding the runner. Like a raised panel, the runner floats between the firmly attached front and back.

[Mark Singer]

Keith,
The back is your only wood movement issue, since the sides top and bottom should have the same grain orientation. For the back you can either resaw solid wood veneer...bookmatch and apply to a 1/4" ply back and leave "float" space on the cross grain sides . The other way is to cut a deeper dado and "trap" the back so it can move in the dado. You can screw or glue the center which would allow the board to expand. I don't think the request is to strange...there are a lot of "solid wood" people. Krenov has sold a lot of books even to non woodworkers... It sounds like a reasonable project. BTW my bath cabinet has not moved even a bit. It is still stable and the doors are fitting great even with all the rain.

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I recently lost a job by trying to lead the customer in a better direction. He wanted it done a specific way...one I wasn't at all comfortable with. I offered several alternatives that I felt were better...with justification for each. He decided to go with someone else.

I think it's very important to tell customers what they NEED TO KNOW, not necessarily what they want to hear.

KC

[Jim Becker]

Sometimes one needs to know when to "fire the customer"...as Todd clearly illustrated. There is no reason you couldn't build as requested and Mark is correct that the back is really the only "large surface" movement issue. Yes, you can charge double or triple for solid stock construction...but do you want to be the craftsman that determines the best way to build to get the desired final effect? I agree with KC on that point...