what is wrong with todays kids?

[curtis rosche]

i know im no perfect kid, but im looking around at the people in my generation and some of the younger ones, and i just cant believe what i see.

i know a number of people who at 21, have no job or work less than 20 hours a week, have no car or liscence, no career or life goals, no money in the bank, beg off everyone they know cause no one seems to say no, and they seem to think that their life couldnt be better.

or like the TSA middle and high school confrence i went to judge last week, there were a number of kids who were sent home for throwing tv remotes, chairs, suitcases, other peoples projects, and numerous other item off the balconies above the 5th floor at a hotel their parents paid $300+ for the two days they were there.

or the boyfriend my girlfriends sister just had. he got kicked out of his house, so her parents took him in cause he had absolutely no where else to go. only asked that he have a job and follow their few rules, only asked for $75 a week in rent. within a month he was kicked out cause it was "too hard" for him to keep his job at mcdonalds cause he "didnt like the way his boss treated him" and then lied about being fired, and then thought it would be ok as a minor to bring alcohol into the house he was gratiously allowed to stay in. they kicked him out but let him still come around, so he thought it would be fine to go sleep around with other girls.

i can go on and on with more examples, as im sure many of you can with what youve seen, these were just a few of what i recently saw.
i know there are tons of good kids out there and im in college with quiet a few of them. but i dont ever remember kids being this bad when i was younger. and it seems as i get older it gets worse with each generation.

i sure hope this trend doesnt continue or we are heading towards a very grimm future when these people become the labourers that get to take care of your generation as you age.


sorry for the rant:mad:

[Mike Henderson]

Well, if it's any consolation to you, complaining about the younger generation goes back a long ways. We have written records from the early Greeks that lament the characteristics of the youth - lazy, low morals, etc. But every generation grows up and about the same percentage turn into good, productive citizens.

For every youth that we shake our heads at, there are youths that are bright, driven, ambitious, and polite. Those just don't get any press. Look at the applications to the major universities. Those kids are waaaay beyond what the kids were in my time. They have to have a 4.0+ average - and have taken AP courses, they have to have done public service, and they have to be outstanding in some way (maybe won some awards). If they were around when I applied to college, I wouldn't have gotten in.

No, just like in the past, "these are the best of times, these are the worst of times".

Mike

["The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277(1953)."]

[And another:

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC).]

[Ed Aumiller]

When my kids were growing up, it amazed me how much they learned when they turned 25....

Now I hope my grandsons learn that much when they turn 25, but think it may be closer to 30 or so...

[Joe Pelonio]

I guess it depends on where you are. Our local 3 high schools are still turning out graduates that go to a 4 year college at the rate of 90+%, and with a few exceptions that moved back home those that we know were somehow all able to find good jobs. One friend's oldest graduates next month and is off to law school.

[Scott Shepherd]

Curtis, it's probably a fairly complex issue with no single reason, but rather many different reasons that all have the same end result.

Since this is a woodworking forum, I'll add my opinion from that angle. I think the gutting of trades out of schools is partially responsible. Kids, good, bad, and in between, used to all share the space of trades. Also if you weren't the sharpest knife in the drawer, you always had a place to go, to one of the trades. Now, where do all the kids go? Where do the kids go that love to make and build things with their hands, that struggle memorizing facts from the 1600's they might be learning in history class? Where do the kids go that are great with math but love making things? Where do the kids go that are troubled kids doing poorly in school?

The answer? No where. There is no place for them. So they get shoved into this never never land and they get "lost" while growing up. If you are one of those kids that might do great in a trade, but you have no one in school telling you it might be a good option for you, what's going to happen? You'll probably just flounder through life until you fall into something that you can lve with.

I'm not an old guy yet, I'm in my 40's, but I grew up in a middle class neighborhood and I can honestly say that I can't think of a single friend or neighbor kid that didn't have at least one job at 16 years old. Everyone worked. Not because we had to, but because it's who we were and what we were taught was the right thing to do. Most of those blue collar kids ended up being electricians, machinists, plumbers, carpenters, etc.

You just don't see that any more these days and I blame it on the trades being ripped out of the schools as a big part of the puzzle.

[Jim Matthews]

I'm a parent, but I'm older than most of the other parents at my boy's school by nearly 15 years.

The problem with kids these days is their parents. There doesn't seem to be any room for kids to sort things out, on their own.
It's either constant interference, or complete indifference. That's in a small school with parents that pay for tuition.

In the local public schools it's three straight generations of hopeless... academic achievement is derided.
It is unfortunate that in so many cases, geography (or zipcode) determines your destiny in education.

Too many believe that a security net will always provide for them, and exert no effort to improve.

If you're aware these pitfalls, you may prevail over circumstance.

+1 on the trades making a comeback.

[Bruce Page]

Mike, thanks for putting it into perspective. There are different challenges for each generation. I used to think that my kids had it easy compared to my generation. They are raising kids of their own now, and I wonder how they manage. Quite well actually.

[ray hampton]

Most of those blue collar kids ended up being electricians, machinists, plumbers, carpenters, etc.

You just don't see that any more these days and I blame it on the trades being ripped out of the schools as a big part of the puzzle.[/QUOTE]

according to the local papers in this neck of the woods, the machine shops are begging for working men and women to do machining, not all machine shops use CNC , why don't the companies teach the foreign people how to work at blue collar jobs

[harry hood]

Attributed to Socrates by Plato (469–399 B.C.):
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

It's been going downhill ever since the first teenager arrived I think.

[Andy Pogue]

yes, there have always been and will always be good and bad kids. (and adults ) But, one change I see is the disconnect between children and society. there seems to be a lack of real, personal relationships. Lots of "friends" but technology has created a world where two people sit across a table from each other and text instead of talk. I work in a medical office and cannot get teens or preteens to answer simple questions for texting while I am trying to examine or understand their ailments.

Secondly, why work when things are given to you? I went out at age 13 to find a job after school because I wanted to have certain luxuries my parents could not and should not have bought for me. Now parents can't wait to buy phones,computers, even cars with no contribution from the child. (no skin in the game).

Last, and I am feeling better now, thanks for letting me vent, it is the parent's responsibility to demand (and deserve ) respect. Last week I had a teen in the office for a broken bone. The grand-father and mother both came along to try and console him since he wouldn't be able to play baseball. Her called the grand-father an a**h**e and mother a b***h. They apologized for him and made excuses for his behavior, but NEVER corrected him at all. In the end he got a new phone to make up for his self-inflicted trauma.

My principal friends bemoan the lack of discipline in the home and they are prohibited from using corporal punishment at school. I hope we are not really going down hill as fast as it seems, but I think some folks need a good old fashioned trip to the woodshed for a refresher course. After that maybe they should take their kids there too.

I remember an Andy Griffith show where the new kid in town tried to teach Opie how to manipulate his father into giving him more allowance without chores. we as watchers of the show could see how this boy twisted his father around his finger. God grant to us perspective to see clearly!

Lastly (and i mean it this time) remember our children need us to be parents, they have friends. Friendship with parents can come when they have the maturity.
Dad was right, sometimes "I said so" is sufficient reason.


Next, we have now a second generation that has been taught that they are merely a product of millions of years of natural selection, an animal, advanced, but an animal. Should we be surprised if they act like one?

[Steven Hsieh]

http://youtu.be/e9yUXVzs0Qw

[John Coloccia]

They were raised by yesterday's parents.

[Montgomery Scott]

Russell Peters gives the answer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI

[Mike Henderson]

Next, we have now a second generation that has been taught that they are merely a product of millions of years of natural selection, an animal, advanced, but an animal. Should we be surprised if they act like one?
It is unlikely that teaching people the truth will cause them to act poorly.

Mike

[Bill Edwards(2)]

It is unlikely that teaching people the truth will cause them to act poorly.

Mike

I think I just heard a load click, like a lock slamming shut.

[Pat Barry]

If you don't know whats wrong then what makes you think a bunch of old geezers on this site are going to be able to tell you.

[ray hampton]

If you don't know whats wrong then what makes you think a bunch of old geezers on this site are going to be able to tell you.

because we been there and did it all do not mean that we learn from the mistakes

[Curt Fuller]

Mark Twain once said something like....When I was 14 I thought my father was the stupidest person alive. By the time I was 21 I was amazed at how much he had learned.

I don't think kids are any worse today than they have ever been. As someone bumping up on "old geezer" status I just think older people have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight when it comes to judging the things that kids are doing. Basically, they've been there, done that, and know the consequences. But everyone has to learn life's experiences for themselves, some young people will learn from example and some will just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. But one thing I think I can honestly say is that there is no shortage of stupid old people either.

[ray hampton]

But one thing I think I can honestly say is that there is no shortage of stupid old people either.

why do you had to think about it

[Myk Rian]

My thought is; Look at what we're leaving them with.
15 trillion in national debt, that they will have to pay off. No jobs of any consequence.

Now look at the parents.
They host drinking parties. Claim their kids are angels.

They look at the bickering among political sides. Greed is rampant.

Not much to look forward to in my opinion. So why should they care?

[Brian Elfert]

Depending on where one lives not having a car isn't necessarily an issue. For someone with little income the expense of a car can really be a drag on the finances. I would judge a young person based on if they owned a car or not. The other issues, yes. I know parents who let there kids live at home for years past when they should have been out on their own.

[Jim Rimmer]

It's been going downhill ever since the first teenager arrived I think.

And Cain rose up and slew Abel.

[David Weaver]

Depending on where one lives not having a car isn't necessarily an issue. For someone with little income the expense of a car can really be a drag on the finances. I would judge a young person based on if they owned a car or not. The other issues, yes. I know parents who let there kids live at home for years past when they should have been out on their own.

Well, I didn't do that, I couldn't wait to bolt from the homestead, but I don't see anything wrong with it as long as the kids living at home are doing something productive and saving money. If someone can live at home for 4 or 5 years and is serious about saving money (and doesn't come up with a significant other who objects), that's not a bad idea.

That is, if you could stand living with your parents for any longer than you had to, I couldn't!

[Jim Rimmer]

+1 on the elimination of trade courses in public schools. I have a nephew that was definitely not college-bound. There were no trade courses for him to take. He graduated from high school, bummed around for awhile, married twice, fathered three kids, bummed around some more and now that he is in his thirties finally zeroed in on a trade that he likes, is learning it and works hard. Too bad he had to waste 15 years of his life.

On the other hand, if you want to see some good, hard working kids, go to a 4H or FFA stock show some time. You don't have to wait for the state fair; just go to the local school show or county show. Go in the animal barn and talk to some of the kids - they love to talk about their animals. They get up every day before school and feed these animals, go by after school and groom them, train them and exercise them. They hold down part-time jobs to buy food and medicine for them and study and make passing grades so they can stay in the program. These are the kind of kids that will take care of this country in the future. And I'm sure there are several other organizations that folks here know about that have similar traits; this is the one I've been around. And that doesn't mean they will all be blue-collar workers. My son (and daughter)were in FFA; he went to college at the US Naval Academy and is a career Naval Officer. FFA taught him a lot about responsibility, hard work and getting along with and helping others.

[Rick Potter]

Trade schools, indifferent parents, lack of entry level jobs, government safety net available to too much of the population, a declining society in the western world, TV tells us 'it's all good', societal behaviors that were a felony a generation ago are now accepted and encouraged, crowded prisons, news media concentrating on negative stories, the internet, government interferrence with child raising, governmental raising of children, political correctness, and of course the ever popular 'bad blood'.

My fingers are tired.

Rick P

[Garrett Ellis]

This is funny, I was just about to start a thread asking what's wrong with today's 'adults'???

[Brian Elfert]

Well, I didn't do that, I couldn't wait to bolt from the homestead, but I don't see anything wrong with it as long as the kids living at home are doing something productive and saving money. If someone can live at home for 4 or 5 years and is serious about saving money (and doesn't come up with a significant other who objects), that's not a bad idea.


A case I know the kids are living at home and have no jobs. Mom and Dad seem to be perfectly content with it.

[David Weaver]

A case I know the kids are living at home and have no jobs. Mom and Dad seem to be perfectly content with it.

I guess that's up to them. Can't be teaching the kids good habits, though. It's like the kids are retired before they ever worked :)

I've got some relatives like those, but at the same time, also have a relative who has lived at home for about 5 years gainfully employed and intending to buy a house cash or close to it. The latter strategy, I like a lot. I can't see how paying a mortgage and carrying debt really has ever made anyone's life more enjoyable, and he may be able to avoid it completely his whole life.

[Ben Hatcher]

This is funny, I was just about to start a thread asking what's wrong with today's 'adults'???

I think some adults have selective memory about how they were when they were young and think a bit too highly about their decision making abilities were the same options available to them at the time.

That said, it seems to me that to succeed today, you have to be good at what you do. The self-esteem generation of parents have left kids feeling like they're good at everything because they're insulated from failure. The result is that the real world becomes a scary place compared to the coddling confines of the nest. Kids become reluctant to leave and when they do take longer to figure out what they're actually good enough at doing to make a living out of it.

[Mike Henderson]

I think some adults have selective memory about how they were when they were young and think a bit too highly about their decision making abilities were the same options available to them at the time.

That said, it seems to me that to succeed today, you have to be good at what you do. The self-esteem generation of parents have left kids feeling like they're good at everything because they're insulated from failure. The result is that the real world becomes a scary place compared to the coddling confines of the nest. Kids become reluctant to leave and when they do take longer to figure out what they're actually good enough at doing to make a living out of it.
Self-esteem is one of the major characteristics of successful people. While one may argue about whether we're going about it in the right way, the goal is correct - developing children with good self esteem is one of the best ways to help your child be successful.

Mike

[There is also a strong correlation between teen pregnancy and low self esteem.]

[Chris Padilla]

Attributed to Socrates by Plato (469–399 B.C.):
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

It's been going downhill ever since the first teenager arrived I think.


Adam, perhaps? ;)

[harry hood]

Adam, perhaps? ;)

Or Mashya. He came first.

[Larry Edgerton]

That is, if you could stand living with your parents for any longer than you had to, I couldn't!

I know what you mean. I left home on my 18th birthday at 5:00 am.

I have been in business for over twenty five years, and I always liked to give young fellows a chance to make some decent money for a days work.

But..... I noticed a trend. It became harder and harder to find kids that actually want to work. The last ones were two years ago, two 17 year olds. I had a tough job and there was myself and a nother 55 year old and these two kids. The two old guys were outworking them four to one. I gave them a check and told them that their effort was just not good enough. They said that it was just too hard. These are not skinny kids, these are football types.

I gave up on hireing kids after that, its just not worth it. I have no clue to the reasons why, but there does seem to be a problem with work ethic. Of course work ethic is not poor just in the younger set, there are plenty of adults that are lazy as a pet coon.

Then there is the fear of lawyers, a whole other topic....

Larry

[ray hampton]

I know what you mean. I left home on my 18th birthday at 5:00 am.

They said that it was just too hard. These are not skinny kids, these are football types.


Larry

what you need is to train a colony of army ants to do your work, ants can carry three times their own weight

[Brian Elfert]

I've hired a high school kid to help me with a project I needed help with. He did a really job after a little training. I've also dealt with other high school kids who didn't want to work and it was easier for me to do the work myself.

[harry hood]

It's been going downhill ever since the first teenager arrived I think.

And Cain rose up and slew Abel.

I don't think Cain was a troublemaker or lazy, it's just that the 10 commandments didn't exist yet so Cain had no idea that it was wrong to kill his brother. That and, like a lot of us, god likes meat more than vegetables.

[Belinda Barfield]

Off with their heads!

[David Weaver]

But..... I noticed a trend. It became harder and harder to find kids that actually want to work. The last ones were two years ago, two 17 year olds. I had a tough job and there was myself and a nother 55 year old and these two kids. The two old guys were outworking them four to one. I gave them a check and told them that their effort was just not good enough. They said that it was just too hard. These are not skinny kids, these are football types.

This must have something to do with what society tells them is important. I never considered myself an especially tough physical worker, but I could work hard enough that my employers would compliment me on it and then tell my parents. It just always seemed to me that you're all or none when it comes to busting your butt, and there aren't many guys in between. I also learned that I didn't probably want to do it for the rest of my life unless I was the guy in charge, and now I'm just a soft office guy who likes to break a sweat sometimes if I can find a task to do it - but it sure would take a while to get in work shape again.

I think society tells kids now that if they have to work hard and break a sweat, that they failed and that smart people don't have to do that. I don't agree with that, but what can you do when that's what they tell kids? That's my guess, because you know a lot of those same kids will go out and leave their guts on the field when they want to bust their butts.

Back then, even though it's only 20 years ago, parents where I was from liked to run their kids through the wringer as a mason tender or as a go-fer and runner on a construction crew, because they knew the kids would be worn out, and maybe afraid of being the go-fer for the rest of their lives.

[Brian Elfert]

I worked at the local state fairgrounds every summer for seven years starting when I was 16 years old. It was hard sweaty work outdoors. They liked my work and there was never a question if I was welcome back the next year. I just called in the spring and they asked what day I was planning to start. I would usually work from the Monday after school got out until Labor day. I was a good worker so they always wanted me back.

I have a desk job now and I am way out of shape.

[Mike Cruz]

Chris, the short answer is... Parents! They are the problem.

On another note, when I was a "kid", I wasn't 20. 20 yo's were adults. We were responsible. We had to be. We expected to be. We were TOLD to be. And we listened...

[Bill Edwards(2)]

Off with their heads!

If you're talking teenagers, that's not a loss. They rarely function with them.
so the loss would be negligible.

[Gary Max]

We never run out of wars to send them to.

[Larry Browning]

I have sort of an opposite story that happened to me when I was maybe 15 or 16. I had an uncle who worked by the hour doing odd jobs and lawn care for folks at a lake resort area. One summer he was getting behind and had more work than he could do, so he asked me if I could mow a couple of the lawns he had lined up. I did the lawns working at the pace I always worked at and finished them pretty quickly. He was pretty angry at me and told me that he would never give me anymore lawns to do because I finished them way too quickly. "How can I make any money finishing the lawns that fast, after all they are paying by the hour. You are making me look bad to all my customers". I lost respect for my uncle that day, he never gained it back until the day he died.

[Rod Sheridan]

What's wrong with today's kids? Well, the answer is obvious, they were raised by us:D.

Regards, Rod.

[ray hampton]

What's wrong with today's kids? Well, the answer is obvious, they were raised by us:D.

Regards, Rod.

now that is a good one Rod