Equipping a toy making shop

[Nathan Talbert]

Hey everyone,
Just seeking some direction on acquiring some tools for making wooden toys. I have a benchtop bandsaw. I'm thinking my next tools should be a benchtop drill press and a benchtop disc/belt sander machine. Anyone making toys see a better setup? These toys wont be fancy scale models, just basic child friendly nursery toys with no metal screws, hooks, nails, etc. Any pointers are much appreciated.

[Howard Acheson]

You might want to read the info at the following site:

http://www.cpsc.gov/about/CPSIA/smbus/manufacturers.html

Items intended for children 12 years old and under regulated by the Consumer Products Safety Commission. There is testing and certification required even if it is for your own child and whether you sell the items or give them away.

[jared herbert]

I bought a shop full of equipment from a single owner several years ago. there were several of what I would call benchtop tools by Craftsman. You will be sorely disappointed in the performance of so called bench top tools. I have resold most of them for cheap $$$s. Unless you are very severely limited by space dont buy bench top tools. Jared

[John Coloccia]

Hey everyone,
Just seeking some direction on acquiring some tools for making wooden toys. I have a benchtop bandsaw. I'm thinking my next tools should be a benchtop drill press and a benchtop disc/belt sander machine. Anyone making toys see a better setup? These toys wont be fancy scale models, just basic child friendly nursery toys with no metal screws, hooks, nails, etc. Any pointers are much appreciated.

Drill press and sander sounds quite reasonable. Then you can do things like cutting out shapes from large chunks of wood, drilling the holes, and then slicing them off on the bandsaw to the proper thickness. I do this for things like cover plates and can make lots of them at the same time very quickly.

[Andrew Joiner]

You might want to read the info at the following site:

http://www.cpsc.gov/about/CPSIA/smbus/manufacturers.html

Items intended for children 12 years old and under regulated by the Consumer Products Safety Commission. There is testing and certification required even if it is for your own child and whether you sell the items or give them away.

Howie , I have respected your input on many things over the years. Can you point to the line from the CPSC that says I can't give a toy to my own child without testing and certification? I find that hard to believe.

[John Coloccia]

re: the CPSC stuff
Read through it. Wood is fine. There are guidelines for choking hazards and things like that. Finish may be a problem. The elephant in the room is that we all know what country these guidelines were written for, and they don't really care anyway, but there you go.

[Richard Dragin]

Forget all those power tools, what you really need are some Elves.

[Grant Wilkinson]

I've done models and toys, and have gotten a lot of use out of my scroll saw. It allows finer details than my bandsaw does. As others have said, many of the bench top tools are not good quality. If you can afford it and you have the space, consider full size.

[Nathan Talbert]

Drill press and sander sounds quite reasonable. Then you can do things like cutting out shapes from large chunks of wood, drilling the holes, and then slicing them off on the bandsaw to the proper thickness. I do this for things like cover plates and can make lots of them at the same time very quickly.

Just curious, do you make the cover plates for your home?

[Harold Burrell]

Forget all those power tools, what you really need are some Elves.

OK...you beat me to it. :D

[John Coloccia]

Just curious, do you make the cover plates for your home?

They are cover plates for guitar control cavities. You know, the plastic plates on the back of guitars that cover all the electronics. I make them out of wood. I can make them one at a time, but it's so much easier to route the shape and drill holes through a thick chunk of wood, and then make 1/8" slices on the band saw. I can make 10 or 20 of them in a batch really quickly and then not worry about it for a while. This works wonderfully for anything that's thin, assuming the bandsaw resaws well (which mine fortunately does).

I can also do things like roughing out the shape from several different species, and then slicing one off when I need it. It's so much easier to store big chunks of wood than dozens of thin little fragile things kicking around all of the place. It's also especially helpful when working in batches. I can do a lot of work on a particular item, and then sometime later when I happen to have a resaw blade on the saw, I'll slice them off.

It would be more difficult to make outlet cover plates like this because of the sharp inside corners. You could certainly rough them out like this, and then touch them up after slicing, including dressing the edges. It's just another tool to have in the arsenal.

[Bill Huber]

I have made a few toys and I plan on making more. I use a lot of templates, make one and then I can make as many more as I want using those templates on the router table.

I would say that the sander you need is the Ridgid Oscillating Edge/Belt/Spindle Sander. I had a disk belt sander but just did not use it that much, then I got the Ridgid and I use it all the time. It is really great for templates because you have so many ways to do the shaping.

[Nathan Talbert]

Ah gotcha John. I was thinking electrical outlet covers.

[Nathan Talbert]

In defense of benchtop machines.... I have a Craftsman 10" bandsaw. I switched out the blade it came with and put in a 1/2" 4tpi blade. I then resawed some rosewood flooring planks that were given to me and i was impressed.

Bill, is the Ridgid Oscillating Edge/Belt/Spindle Sander more versitile than the belt/disc? Just curious as to why you prefer the former.

[Bill Huber]

In defense of benchtop machines.... I have a Craftsman 10" bandsaw. I switched out the blade it came with and put in a 1/2" 4tpi blade. I then resawed some rosewood flooring planks that were given to me and i was impressed.

Bill, is the Ridgid Oscillating Edge/Belt/Spindle Sander more versitile than the belt/disc? Just curious as to why you prefer the former.

For sure, the disk part of a disk/belt sander is ok but I always hated change the disk, for me the belt is just not that great. With the Ridgid, to start with it is oscillating which sands better and then you put on the spindle and it is really great for doing curves where I just could not do very good on the belt/disk sander. Switching between the spindle and the belt is noting, takes a min. to do and switching to a different size spindle is a noting job, they are setting right on the front of the sander.

The other thing that is nice is you have a nice large flat table to work on and it can be adjust to a 45° angle if needed. I would say it is one of the most used tools in the shop, just about every project I make it gets used.

[Michael Peet]

A lathe for making wheels and whatnot.

Mike

[harry hood]

You should read it as well. Testing is not required if it's for your own child, that would be absurd. Donated items made from exempted materials (wood in this case) do not require testing with the exception of items intended for children under 4 where they have to meet some fairly simple and common sense rules around small parts and choking.

[Lee Schierer]

I would suggest going to a 14" band saw to get some depth and additional radius capacity. Add a scroll saw and a router table for rounding over edges on parts. I would also suggest getting a copy of the "All American Wooden Toy Book" by Norm Marshall. His toys are made to be played with and require various skill levels to complete. Here are a few toys that I've made from his book. 230309230310230311230312

[Nathan Talbert]

Quite a bit of detail there Lee. Very nice! Sure hope someone is putting them to good use:)

As far as finish, I was thinking of just using beeswax. Any other ideas? Maybe salad bowl finish? These are for friends and family not for resale.

[Myk Rian]

Mineral oil works good for finishing. Non-toxic, and looks nice.
I have a Ridgid OSS. Great tool. Use it all the time.
Vintage 10" Delta band saws can be found quite often. Same with scroll saws, small drill presses. Especially on the east coast.

Here are a few toys I made for Grandkids.

230354

230352

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[Michael Moscicki]

Some have mentioned this already, but the scroll saw should be first on your list. You can't make the small intricate cuts that you need on a band saw. After that a drill press, so you can make holes for fretwork(inside cutting). If you want a small one, then a Dremel rotary tool(too many models to choose from) and Dremel 220-01 Rotary Tool Work Station will suffice. Won't repeat the name of the sander, what the heck Ridgid Oscillating Edge/Belt/Spindle Sander.

Now as far as the scroll saw goes:
16in is the low end and except for Proxxon, they don't make anything smaller. 20in is a good size to have. 30in is overkill. Don't go cheap on the saw. You'll hate it plus you'll be limited to using only pin-end blades. They're a lot bigger that pin-less blades and impractical for fretwork(inside cuts).

If you want to buy new then you can wait for the new Delta 40-695 or you can get an Excalibur 16in(if you want to splurge the 21in is only a few hundred bucks more). Maybe your local woodcraft has a Delta 40-690 hidden somewhere that they forgot about, but that model has been discontinued and woodcraft had it on sale to get rid of them.
You save a lot of money buying used on craigslist. In that case look for a type 1 DeWalt DW788(made in Canada). Any Excalibur, Hegner, RBI, Eclipse(really expensive, but the best), will do. There are other saws out there such as Delta's and Dremel's, which are not bad but will leave you wanting to upgrade sooner or later. Avoid Ryobi or Skil or Craftsman or other no-name brands scroll saws.

[Myk Rian]

16" Scroll saw. $50, before cost of paint.

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[Lee Schierer]

Quite a bit of detail there Lee. Very nice! Sure hope someone is putting them to good use:)

As far as finish, I was thinking of just using beeswax. Any other ideas? Maybe salad bowl finish? These are for friends and family not for resale.

I make my toys from maple and leave it unfinished. Maple develops a nice patina with use and age. Just round all the corners and sand everything smooth. Maple doesn't splinter easily so that is another reason why I use it. Beeswax will likely make the toy feel sticky.

[Phil Thien]

In terms of the regulations about product safety, can I use food coloring on some parts for accents? Like to color a light on a fire engine, for example?

[Howard Acheson]

Howie , I have respected your input on many things over the years. Can you point to the line from the CPSC that says I can't give a toy to my own child without testing and certification? I find that hard to believe.

As I recall there is a Q & A somewhere on the CPSC site that addresses that issue. I recall that the answer said there is no exclusion for your own children. If they are 12 and under, they fall within the regulation.

[John Coloccia]

Under what authority can the Consumer Product Safety Commission regulate anything that isn't a consumer product? The day someone tells me that I can't give my child a toy that I made because it's not government approved will be the day I start picking and choosing which laws are worth following.

[Richard Dragin]

Sure John, blow off the CPSC and make some toys with lead paint and small parts that can be swallowed, that'll show em! They are looking at the big picture and not trying to regulate your hobby shop. Following their recommendations helps you protect your kids. We can't complain about dangerous Chinese imports that should be banned and than complain about the agency trying to do it.

[Jerome Hanby]

Sure John, blow off the CPSC and make some toys with lead paint and small parts that can be swallowed, that'll show em! They are looking at the big picture and not trying to regulate your hobby shop. Following their recommendations helps you protect your kids. We can't complain about dangerous Chinese imports that should be banned and than complain about the agency trying to do it.

Strawman much?

[Paul Muhlstadt]

Be careful. That's how I got hooked in woodworking. Made toys for grandkids. Then parents, aunts, uncles, etc. wanted them too.
Best of luck though. As far as color. Different woods that contrast with the base will work. Walnut for emergency vehicle lights on light colored wood, etc.

I would suggest a table saw along with the other suggestions. Future will bring thickness planer.

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[John Coloccia]

Sure John, blow off the CPSC and make some toys with lead paint and small parts that can be swallowed, that'll show em! They are looking at the big picture and not trying to regulate your hobby shop. Following their recommendations helps you protect your kids. We can't complain about dangerous Chinese imports that should be banned and than complain about the agency trying to do it.

CPSC has to do with products...things that are made to be sold and traded, not things you make in your shop to give to your kids, and that's specifically what we're talking about here. If you're going to attack someone like this, why not actually try and follow the thread so you know what we're talking about first? I'm assuming that you're confused because I find it hard to fathom anyone thinks it's reasonable that if you build a little playhouse or dollhouse for your child, and you finish it with paint, shellac, varnish, drying oil or any other film finish that you should have to have pay a lab come out and test your work for lead before being allowed to give it to your child. Is that what you're advocating?

[Joe Hillmann]

If you read the link about the CPSIA guidelines and understand it it is very easy to comply with and testing is not required.

If you want to produce lots of toys without tons of detail I would suggest a band saw due to its speed and ability to cut thicker woods. If you want to make detailed toys I would suggest a scroll saw, you trade speed for detail.

If you decide to go with the band saw rather I would suggest getting a router mounted in a table, it makes very quick work of rounding over edges. If you decided to go with a scroll saw and your toys have lots of detail than maybe a router wouldn't be as useful.

I would also suggest some type of sander. I personally have a belt/disk combo but an OSS could be very use full as well.

If you make any toys with wheels a drill press may be a good investment.

If you want to make your own wheels a lathe is probably needed but you can order wheels pretty cheap compared to the time it takes to make them.

I would also like to add that benchtop tools are usually lower quality than stand alone tools, but that doesn't mean they won't work for toy making.


Edit: I make rubber band guns that I sell at craft shows and the tools that I use for that are, band saw, drill press, sander and the router table.

[Richard Dragin]

John,
Sorry if that came off as an attack. My point is that their voluntary recommendations serve as a guideline so you can have some knowledge of what not to do. The best of intentions to build toys for kids can lead to actually endangering the kids. Getting upset at the government and politicizing the issue misses the point of the guidelines. Nobody is going to stop you from making toys.

[John Coloccia]

Did you actually read the thread, Richard? Someone was claiming that the CPSC regulations applied to giving your own child a toy you made. I claim that it doesn't, which means that you don't have to go through all of the mandatory (not voluntary) testing required for finishes and other criteria. Maybe I was getting upset at the government and afraid of not being able to make toys in some parallel universe, but this copy of John is not.

[harry hood]

Of course, it's food coloring. It really does need a plastic finish over it though to keep it from rubbing off on everything though. I've had good luck using little scraps of red and yellow heart for things like that.

[Nathan Talbert]

Hole saws in a drill seems to be an easy way to make wheels. Don't forget poplar to get green, black, and purple color!

[Phil Thien]

Thanks for all the color ideas guys! I hadn't thought of using another species of wood for the accents.

[Jerome Hanby]

Hole saws in a drill seems to be an easy way to make wheels. Don't forget poplar to get green, black, and purple color!

Seems like I've seen something like a rosette cutter to use on a drill press to cut holes.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> Donated items made from exempted materials (wood in this case) do not require testing with the exception of items intended for children under 4 where they have to meet some fairly simple and common sense rules around small parts and choking.

Where are you seeing that information? The last I knew, there was an effort to get some things excluded but I am unaware that there has been any change to the basic regulation or requirements.

[Van Huskey]

14" bandsaw with a Carter stabilizer and 1/8 and 1/4" blades
a drill press
a router table
oscillating spindle sander (a low cost useful machine is the Ridged which also gives you a small edge sander)
a GOOD scroll saw

I prefer a good circle/wheel cutter for wheels http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32275&cat=1,180,42316

[Rick Potter]

Nathan,

From what I read, I assume you are short on space. Don't know about the money.

My suggestions, in order:

1. Buy or make a small router table. With a bearing bit and a hardboard template you can make exact duplicates of many parts. You can make a router table for next to nothing, or buy that little benchtop model from Rockler for about $60 (built your own base). To build a quick router table, start with a piece of sink cutout (formica), or a piece of melamine particle board and drill a hole in it for the bit. A basic fence and a CL router. Google it...lots of ideas. I built one years ago with a top that is only 12x12. It has been quite handy.

2. Scroll saw, for those intricate parts. This will keep you from changing blades on your band saw too often.

3. Table saw, if you find you are making a lot of straight pieces. If not...........

An oscillating spindle sander is a wonderful tool, but I am assuming you have a set of sanding drums for your drill press. Otherwise, I would put it as number two.

Hope this helps,
Rick Potter

[jeff . whitaker]

Under what authority can the Consumer Product Safety Commission regulate anything that isn't a consumer product? The day someone tells me that I can't give my child a toy that I made because it's not government approved will be the day I start picking and choosing which laws are worth following.

AMEN!...been doing that for years...