Which auger bits for Stanley no. 965 brace?

[Bruno Frontera dela Cruz]

I just picked up my first brace this weekend, a 10" no.965 and would like some guidance on bits. I am not sure if there are various styles that fit various types of chucks but is there a specific style that will fit this brace or are they all compatible?

Thx

[Gary Herrmann]

What kind of work do you think you'll be doing?

Assuming that brace has the standard two jaw chuck, any bits with the square tapered shank will work. That shank will work with all two jaw chucks.

[Mike Holbrook]

There are two main types of auger bits that show up at auctions, Russell Jennings and Irwins. More people seem to like the RJ's on these pages but I have read some strong arguments for the Irwins as well. The RJ's have tighter threads than the Irwins. I believe you will find it much easier to find Irwins than RJ's and the RJ's typically cost more for the same sets. I payed more for a set of 9 RJs, with one useless/broken and a couple rusted bits, than for a full set of 13 Irwins in good condition. There are a few places that sell new or refurbished versions of one or both of these types of bits but they are quite expensive.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I see that ace hardware online sells Irwin bits for hand braces. Does anyone have any experience with their current quality?

[Peter Pedisich]

I see that ace hardware online sells Irwin bits for hand braces. Does anyone have any experience with their current quality?

Bill,

I purchased a new Irwin auger from Amazon, I think it was made in Brazil, and it looks just like the Vintage Irwin set I bought from Walt at Brass City. I tried it out in my Stanley No. 921, and it worked perfectly fine in white pine.

Pete

[Jim Koepke]

There are so many good used bits out there being sold for a song there isn't much of a reason to buy new IMO.

There are some deals to be had from the old auction site, but often you may get a few duds mixed in with some decent bits.

One needs to know a few things to look for if buying in the wild.

Rolling an auger bit on a flat surface can tell if it is bent.

Check to see they have not been sharpened incorrectly or over sharpened.

The spurs need to be long enough to scribe a full circle before the cutting edges start to remove chips. If they are not long enough, they will cause tear out at the part of the hole where the spurs didn't cut.

This post will tell a little about auger bits:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?131238-A-Bit-About-Augers

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Interesting - if you search the irwin website for "hand brace" or "solid center", they still sell square shank bits, both the "normal" type, as well as adjustable bits and the long electricians bit, and tree tapping and utility pole bits. (I can't imagine there are a lot of folks drilling holes in utility poles with a hand brace anymore!) I don't remember coming across those from the company before. I wonder if someone at Irwin came across a bunch of old stock and realized some of us still use these?

[Bruno Frontera dela Cruz]

Thanks for all the replies. I will just use these for general purpose drilling so it is good to know that the square shank types will fit.

[Jim Koepke]

I can't imagine there are a lot of folks drilling holes in utility poles with a hand brace anymore!

It has been a long time, but when I was young I worked for a phone company. We used a brace all the time for drilling holes. Where do you think all of those Bell System braces came from?

I still see "bell hanger's bits" with the hole in the shank to help pull wire through a wall.

When one is up a pole, a brace and bit is lighter to carry up with you than a cordless drill.

A cordless drill might not make it through a pole when one is hanging cable clamps, drop hooks, foot rests or cross arms all day.

It is imaginable that times have changed and those guys now have cordless drills and lots of back up batteries.

jtk

[David Posey]

I remember when my dad started using augers to run holes for wire, and none of the drills we had would 1) have a big enough chuck to fit the auger and 2) have enough power to spin the bit. We found a Black and Decker Industrial drill that did the job nicely. It would only spin at 300 rpm, but it had a 7 amp motor in it.

Power is a lot more important than speed when it comes to augers. They'll do much of the work for you, but you have to be able to turn them. Most drills are not set up to provide this. Even with the advancements in drills and batteries in recent years, I highly doubt they've come up with anything that can keep up with a brace in terms of efficiency. I think it is quite feasible that braces are still used for that kind of work today.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Round my parts, I haven't seen a lineworker climb a pole in ages - they have bucket lifts on their trucks, and they do any work above ground in those. I don't know if they've got corded or cordless drills, but I've walked by a few times and seen they have those big powered drills with the side handle with them. Of course, just 'cause that's how they do it around here doesn't mean that's how they do it everywhere. I guess I was just making assumptions on limited info. I know like David says, I use a brace for a lot jobs where a cordless powered drill just wouldn't cut it.

[Michael Ray Smith]

Jim's previous post that he linked in his post to this thread has a LOT of good information, well worth the read.

I've bought a lot of used bits recently -- mostly off eBay -- and from my experience you can count on 1/2 to 2/3 of them having one of two problems: They're bent, or the flutes are worn down or broken off. If they're bent, they're not necessarily unusable, depending on the application, but I cull out anything with enough of a bend that I can detect it by rolling the bit on a flat surface. Then you'll find that even the keepers are dull, and dull bits don't work very well. An auger file is well worth the fairly modest price. Fortunately, sharpening a bit doesn't take very long because the cutting edges are so small. I buy large lots and try to get them for about $0.50 per bit, including shipping, so after I weed out the ones I don't want, the cost per bit is about 2-3X the price I pay.

Another alternative is to watch eBay for a complete set of bits in mint or near-mint condition. It probably won't take more than a few days for you to get a shot at at least one or two. A set typically has 13 bits -- No. 4 (1/4") through No. 16 (1"). If you're really lucky, you can snag a set of Irwins for $40-$50, depending on the number of bidders and how badly they want the purchase, but usually you'll have to pay more like $75 - $85. Sometimes they go for more than $100.

I frankly can't tell much difference between the Irwin and RJ designs, but that could be because I'm not very good yet with a brace and bit. Or it could be because the condition of the bits I use is so variable to begin with.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Jims thread details some of the differences. The major difference between Irwin and RJ bits are the lead screws, which I don't worry too much about - either will get the job done if you need it to and the the bit is sharp, and the way the bit is made. The Jennings strip out a little more for me in some woods compared to the Irwins, however, because of the finer thread pitch. Irwin's have a solid center around which helix of the flutes wraps around, while Jennings bits don't really have a center, and are almost made like a flat piece that's twisted like taffy into a helix like shape. I really like the Jennings for deeper small diameter holes, as the chips seem to clear much better for me with that type of bit.

The two things that have been killer for me rounding up bits are ones where previous filings have been poor - either the last guy to file it didn't use the appropriate file and buggered up the lead screw in the process so it won't pull into the wood, or the lips have become different sizes, so the majority of your cutting action only happens with one lip. The second might be fixable, the first I haven't been able to make work at all. (Which is why I really need to track down a new 3/8" bit.. .

[Michael Ray Smith]

Consider picking up a few different kinds of used brace bits to see if you find a use for them. For example, you might pick up some screwdriver bits. There are also some others still floating -- gimlet bits and shell bits, for instance, that you might find interesting.

[Jim Koepke]

Round my parts, I haven't seen a lineworker climb a pole in ages - they have bucket lifts on their trucks, and they do any work above ground in those. I don't know if they've got corded or cordless drills, but I've walked by a few times and seen they have those big powered drills with the side handle with them.

There are different tools for the different workers. Line workers will likely have power. They may have days where they will drill a lot of holes.

I was an installer. We might not drill any holes on a typical day. On a real tough day we might have to drill just a few. I am sure with so many of the changes that have come over the industry in the last 40+ years since I was an installer that many of them have cordless drills for the light work. If an installer has to drill a pilot hole for a drop hook, many cordless drills might not be able to handle the work.

There was an installer in our group who worked on the prewire jobs and he had an electric drill. He would have to run wire in walls and through the floors before the walls were put up.

Though it wouldn't surprise me to find they no longer use the hand brace for installation work at most of today's phone service providers. Another thing to consider is a lot of new developments have the utilities all underground.

jtk