This might just be weird..

[markus shaffer]

Hello...

I should start this out by saying I'm not a turner.. Don't have a lathe and wouldn't know where to put one if I did.. I've seen some pen turning demonstrated at one of the woodworking shows but nothing else.. Having looked at all the photos people have posted, I am constantly amazed at the level of crafsmanship that people here turn out.. no pun intended..

So here's my story.. I've made all the stringed instruments in the band I play in.. I want to make a drumkit for our drummer. She and I have talked about it and I think it would be a fun project for us at some point. Most drums are made of 6 to 10 thin plies of birch or maple usually bent around a form. However, there is another type of construction which I would like to try. Stave drums are made like wine barrels. Vertical pieces cut at angles and edge glued together. (See attached photos) My understanding is that after you have glued up all the pieces and formed the circle of the shell, piece is put on a lathe and smoothed out and brought to the right thickness.

I've done a lot of research on the web and mostly seen photos of snare drums which are not very big. I would like to make an entire kit with the biggest drum being about 20 or 22 inches in diameter and about 18 inches deep. So my question is, are lathes big enough to handle this kind of turning common? Basically this turning work is something I would find someone else to do for me. If I need to find someone with a monster lathe, then perhaps that might pose a problem..

Any ideas or suggestions would be helpful. Thanks.

-Markus

[Robert Cox]

Wodturning Techniques on the DIY channel just showed making a birdhouse in exactly the manner you describe.

Would you be doing the sawing and gluing?

[Raymond Overman]

Not weird at all Markus. There are some people out there turning djembe (sp?) drums and I saw a site once that turned tympany drums too. Huge lathe.

Common sizes for most lathes run from 12-24 inch throws. Most of the $1000-$2000 lathes run in the 16-20 inch range so your snare is probably doable. Some of the larger drums in your kit are going to be a little tougher. You also realize that doing one offs with a woodturner may not prove as financially viable as a just buying the drums out right.

Good luck! It sounds like a fun and ambitious project. :)

[JayStPeter]

Markus,

I suspect the reason you only see snare drums is that is the drum that is most sensitive. People have tried just about everything to get the perfect snare drum sound. Getting a nice pop while still being able to use brushes and do light rolls is real difficult. I messed around years ago with acrylic and different shells I had collected over the years. It was real difficult to quantify what made some work and others not.
Bass drum and toms tend to be easier to get the sound you desire with heads and interior finish. Snare drums are difficult as the sound transferrance (minus overtones) from the top to bottom head is key to good sound. Some overtones are desired on bass and toms. There are many custom drum makers out there who only do snares.
I would also be concerned about warping on a large bass drum. That would be my guess as to why the factories don't use this construction. I'm sure some sort of large lathes would be much cheaper than the massive steam bending systems and molds they use to put together drum shells. Equipment cost is the reason there are so few shell makers out there. I've also heard there are high rejection rates due to warping.

My eventual plan for my own setup is to make a variety of snare shells and try them out. I will use proven Keller shells for the rest of the set with a standard lacquer interior finish. If you do come up with a good snare shell, please let me know the details. I'd love to try one myself.

Jay

[Jim Becker]

There are lathes that can certainly handle the task, but they are not the inexpensive ones! My Stubby 750 will handle up to 30" inboard, but not to the depth you would require for the floor toms, etc. A large bowl lathe, such as the VB36 or a Oneway 24xx with the "large" outboard setup could also handle it...but a tailstock is required so you can sandwitch your stave glue-up between two flat platters to hold it true. I suspect that drums made in this manner are turned on customer setups that turn slow and big...

[John Shuk]

I would say that a person to ask via e-mail would be.....drumroll please...David Marks. I know that he is a very accomplished turner and also is a very serious drummer as well. I would be surprised if he had never tried something like that. From all that I have seen here on the 'Creek about him I don't think he would have any problem corresponding with you. I've thought about making a simple bongo for my 3 year old and would love to hear what you come up with. It's awesome that you have made the instruments you guys play and this would definately take it to the next level. Good luck. By the way I'm only a short trip up the Hudson Line in Cold Spring.

[Richard Allen]

Stave drums, as I am sure you have found out, are quite pricey. There is a good reason they are pricey. One is that they sound TERRIFIC. The other reason is that they are a HUGE effort to make.

You likely noticed that you can buy stave drum shells to which you add the things like lugs and heads...

The stave construction is fairly straight forward. Do the math, cut the staves, glue it up. I like to cut the bevels with a champher bit at the router table. There will be a flat that the router bit bearing rides along. That flat is the high point that will be tured away making the stave construction round.

Good luck

[Jim Becker]

Richard's dialog just made an idea turn up in my head...build a jig to use a router to "round" the stave contruction. Two round disks to hold the rough piece with a dowel down the middle as a pivot point. The whole thing is suspended with a router on a platform so you can spin the thing while you slowly move the router the length of the drum body.

[Richard Allen]

Hi Jim

The only problem with this is the inside will have a bunch of flats.

Also one of the most important parts of a drum shell is the top bearing surface. The part that comes in contact with the drum head.

The shape of the nearing surface, amount of contact surface and it's relationship to the inside wall of the shell all play a significant roll in the quality of sound that a drum will produce.

[JayStPeter]

Hi Jim

The only problem with this is the inside will have a bunch of flats.

Also one of the most important parts of a drum shell is the top bearing surface. The part that comes in contact with the drum head.

The shape of the nearing surface, amount of contact surface and it's relationship to the inside wall of the shell all play a significant roll in the quality of sound that a drum will produce.

Richard,

I think Jim is on the right track. A router should be able to do the inside too. It would be a pretty hefty jig for sure.

I've done and seen the bearing surfaces done at a router table. The fun part is usually "jointing" the bearing edges before shaping at the router table. I think Jims jig could do that nicely also. In fact, the one custom drum builder I visited had a jig that he mounted the shells to that spun the edge through a straight cutting bit to accopmlish this. Sort of a roticerie that mounted to his huge router table. Then he used the table with a simple bearing guided chamfer bit to shape the bearing surface.
My technique for the acrylic shells I tried was a little less elegant. I glued sandpaper to a large flat surface and pushed the shell back and forth until flat. Sort of like lapping a plane bottom. Then I used a "table" mounted router to shape the edges.

Jay

[Richard Wolf]

I realize you are looking to turn a staved drum shell, but if that does not work out, Roberts Ply Wood sells full rounds from 6" dia up to 24" dia and lenghts up to 96".
I know nothing about drums but some shells that are veneered could be pretty interesting. Know idea about how they would sound. Robertsplywood.com.
Plus they are close by, Deer Park.

Richard

[JayStPeter]

Richard,

I had never heard of those guys before.

The two most famous drum shell mfrs (that don't sell complete drums that is) are Keller and Jasper. Keller are the shells used by DW drums, and Jasper used by Gretsch and Fibes. There are lots of places that sell the Keller, but I don't really know where to get the Jasper other than references to Jasper wood products in Indiana. I believe you have to buy Jasper in large quantities. These two shell mfrs are proven to be some of the best shells in the business. One of these days, I'll get a set of Keller shells and build my own set. You can google "Keller drum shells" or "Jasper drum shells" and get more info than you might care for.

Jay

[Scott Quesnelle]

If you are building a staved drum, why not look to the techniques used by coopers.

Coopers built buckets and barrels and all manner of objects with staves. There is a whole set of tools for doing it without a lathe. Most of these tools are far more friendly to use in a small apartment and take less space than a lathe.

The other bonus is that you are not limited to a specific size. With coopering you could build anything from a small set of staved congos to a full size bass drum or even a japanses taiko (sp?) drum.

Staving sounds like the way to for this, take a look at books on coopering, and also look at the TV show woodwright's shop. He has done numerous shows showing bucket building and other similar projects.

Just a dissenting opinion from a guy who likes to turn, but doesn't have a huge lathe.