Brazilian walnut

[Dave Zellers]

I've decided to use a piece of Brazilian walnut I've had kicking around for 15 years or so for our vanity countertop that I'm building.

I jointed and planed it today- this is one of the darkest walnut boards I've ever seen. I sanded the cut off with 320 and coated it with Seal-A-Cell and wow is it dark. Almost black.

Two questions:

Any advice on what to use to glue the three boards that will make up the counter
and
any advice on what to use for a finish.

I like the black look but I think I'd like a finish that didn't turn it so dark even more. Water based? I don't have much experience with that.

[Peter Quinn]

Glue? Brazilian walnut is ipe, ipe is very hard but glues well with titebond III. But the clamp time will be much longer than typical domestic species. The glue does't kick until its moisture is absorbed, and ipe will not absorb moisture very rapidly. So definitely leave that in clamps 12 hours. And don't squeeze the life out of it with clamps. You need good pressure but its important not to squeeze too hard and starve the glue line. Its a very dense wood and won't compress under clamping pressure, it will just drive all the glue out of the glue line and give a week joint. Epoxy works too but it not necessary, if you go that route same advice on clamping pressure, even more moderate though.

Finish? Not my area of expertise. An epoxy sealer with a waterborne top coat might work, like a thin coat of west systems (all six faces and edges around bowl), let it cure, scuff, an acrylic water white urethane? Shouldn't add much if any color.

[Dave Zellers]

Brazilian walnut is ipe, ipe is very hard ...

Whoa, something's wrong here. I don't think this is ipe but I was definitely told this was Brazilian walnut when I bought it many, many years ago. This is not that hard- it machines like American walnut. I had 2 1x8x12' boards left- one looks a lot like American walnut but the board I chose today (it was rough sawn and the other one I had planed years ago) is way darker. I dunno. But I like it! It's gorgeous.

I posted my msg right after I came upstairs after oiling it and now the oil has settled in and the board's character shows more.

Good info re TB III, that's what I'll use.

[Peter Quinn]

Whoa, something's wrong here. I don't think this is ipe but I was definitely told this was Brazilian walnut when I bought it many, many years ago. This is not that hard- it machines like American walnut. I had 2 1x8x12' boards left- one looks a lot like American walnut but the board I chose today (it was rough sawn and the other one I had planed years ago) is way darker. I dunno. But I like it! It's gorgeous.

I posted my msg right after I came upstairs after oiling it and now the oil has settled in and the board's character shows more.

Good info re TB III, that's what I'll use.

There could be some confusion or obfuscation involved. Dealers often make up names for lack of a better one if they have something new or obscure to sell. Presently "Brazilian Walnut" is the widely accepted trade name for IPE, and its hard to mistake ipe if you have seen it before. Its easily twice as heavy as American black walnut, much harder, smells different (both species have such distinctive odor), often has a vaguely yellow cast to fresh cut lumber and saw dust. I've heard of "Peruvian walnut" which is still harder than American, is not a true walnut, but looks a bit more like it and behaves more like it. So if you don't have IPE, my advice may not fit your needs?

I can say as a general test for PVA adhesives, you can sprinkle a few drops of water on the boards in question and observe. If they are readily absorbed, and it begins to dry quickly, you can treat it like a regular glue up, with a 30 minute to 1 hour clamp time. If the water just sits there, sort of beads up, does't really get absorbed immediately, then you need a long clamp time. PVA glues (like all the tite bonds, I, II or III) don't react until the water they contain is absorbed or evaporates. With your basic domestic species this happens pretty quickly. With these dense exotics like IPE, cumaru, morado, etc, they just don't suck up the water very quickly. IT still forms a strong bond, it just takes a lot longer for the water to leave and let the reaction happen. I've pulled clamps on both IPE and cumaru after 5 hours for a rush order job, only to have the material fall apart in the planer as soon as it was stressed, or fall apart sitting on the bench. Let them go over night, I've never had a failure.

Do you have a picture of what you have, no I sure am curious!

[Peter Quinn]

Dave, I'm thinking what you have may be Imbuia, aka Embuya, aka "Brazilian Walnut". Its apparently also sold as brazilian walnut, but is much more similar to American walnut in terms of weight, color, and hardness, though not related. I haven't worked with this, maybe others have that can chime in?

[Dave Zellers]

Do you have a picture of what you have, no I sure am curious!

I'll go down and joint the back (rough) side of this piece and and take a picture of both sides- oiled and fresh cut. Sounds like it's regular ole walnut.

Stay tuned...

[Dave Zellers]

First time posting pics, I think. Here goes-

They came up in an odd order. You have to look at the name (above the close box) to know what they are.
There are 4 oiled and 4 raw pics.

I left a few of the rough sawn band saw cuts on the raw pics in case someone here can identify the unique markings and pinpoint the exact mill where these boards were cut.

Do I have a high regard for the Creekers' knowledge or what?! :cool:

[Kurt Cady]

You oiled them before gluing? Won't this affect the glue adherence?

[Dave Zellers]

You oiled them before gluing? Won't this affect the glue adherence?

No, no- this is the end of the board after cutting to rough length the 3 boards that will make the counter.

The finished vanity counter is only 28" long.


Also- the camera flash makes the wood look lighter than it is. The darkest areas are what it looks like in person.

[Tom Fischer]

Ipe is an "ironwood". Put a scrap of your wood in water. If it floats, it isn't ipe.

And if it machines like Black Walnut, it isn't ipe.
Ipe splinters feel like small steel needles. Nasty.

[Dave Zellers]

Yeah, no way this is ipe. I'm not familiar with ipe but I am familiar with lignum vitae and a wood so dense that it sinks.

This is some form of walnut or pretend walnut. I think Peter nailed it when he labeled it as Imbuia but it is darker than the images I see online.

[Bill White]

Beautiful wood. An office in my area wainscoated walls with BW. Georgeous stuff.
I'd use Gorilla PVA (not the goofy stuff) and a water based poly. You'll be good.
Bill

[Tony Joyce]

Based on what I can see in the photos, it looks like Peruvian Walnut. Peruvian Walnut is a true walnut, slightly lighter in weight than Black Walnut & slightly darker in color.1 Based on personal experience it also smells somewhat like Black Walnut. The Peruvian Walnut I have access to is very uniform color with few defects and very close to current Black Walnut prices.
Regular PVA glues work well for gluing.

Just for the record I an familiar with(not an expert) all three species listed as possibilities. Ipe, Imbuia, and Peruvian. I just finished some interior doors that were made in Texas and sold to the customer as "Brazilian Walnut". They were not Ipe, I don't know what they were, but they looked closer to mesquite than anything else.

Tony

1Source: The Wood Database
Peruvian Walnut - http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/peruvian-walnut/
Black Walnut - http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/black-walnut/

[Phil Thien]

I don't know what kind of wood that is.

But I wanted to note, I wouldn't use any water-based finish on the top of a vanity.

I've used water-based finishes on items inside bathrooms. They don't hold-up that well, AFAIC.

[Peter Quinn]

I'd always been told Peruvian walnut wasn't a true walnut, thanks to Tony's post I know know that is false! Sorry I was spreading misinformation. I'm getting ready to demo my garage which is also my lumber storage area, so I have to clear out everything. I was given a pile if mahogany cutoffs by a fellow wood pack rat some time back for making lattice when he was clearing out his barn for a remodel. I'm organizing everything as it goes into storage, and I found one small pile of material labeled Peruvian Walnut! Didn't even know I had that. Its a dead ringer for your photos. Its about as heavy and hard as your average Black Walnut, but its all maybe three shades darker. Really handsome stuff

[Bruce Page]

If I were a betting man I’d bet on Imbuia. It looks very much like some Imbuia I worked with once. As I recall it had a pleasant cinnamon smell when sanded.

[Dave Zellers]

Cool. Well, Peru and Brazil do share a border. I guess it gets named depending on which side of the border it's harvested. :)