Porter Cable 4212 dove tail jig setup question

[scott vroom]

I can't seem to get perfect alignment on my halfblind dovetails using this jig. I do the setup per the manual; before locking the offset guide, I use a tape measure to center the piece. When I make my cuts and assemble the 2 pieces they don't match to the eye.....they're offset by 1/32 or so. I don't know how to better do the initial centering of the verticle piece, and the process has degraded to costly trial and error. It's so bothersome that I'm willing to throw away the 4212 and purchase a jig that enables a more precise and accurate setup.

Any help is appreciated, including pointing me to a higher quality jig.

thx

[scott vroom]

Update: I just got off the phone with Leigh about their Super 12 jig. The rep said their setup process doesn't require tape measuring and eyeballing, and that the cut pieces align every time. I'm just starting a 15-drawer job and am ready to lay down the cash for the Super 12 unless someone talks me out of it. I may be offering a used PC4212 soon :)

[Tom Esh]

Check that the edge of the offset guide is is truly perpendicular (vertical) and adjust as needed. They sometimes tend to rest slightly askew which will result in the edges of vertical & horzintal pieces not indexing exactly the same. We're talkin' very slight here, but it's enough.

[scott vroom]

Check that the edge of the offset guide is is truly perpendicular (vertical) and adjust as needed. They sometimes tend to rest slightly askew which will result in the edges of vertical & horzintal pieces not indexing exactly the same. We're talkin' very slight here, but it's enough.

Hi Tom,

I set the offset guide by placing a board in the vertical position flush up against the fingers. I then slide the guide over to the right against the vertical board and lock it with the hex wrench. I guess the question is whether the vertical board is perfectly vertical? I dunno, it seems so Mickey Mouse to me....it shouldn't be this difficult to get a correct setup. I just made some tests boards from 1/2" stock and ran them as a pair through the planer so I know they're identical width. I carefully centered the vertical board between the fingers, using my tape measure, with both sides appearing to be exactly centered. I then slid the offset guide over, making sure it was squared up perfectly with the vertical board, then made my router cuts. Same result...a slight (maybe 1/32") offset when I joined the boards at the corners. Just shouldn't be that difficult.

I'm close to concluding that the PC4212 is simply not designed to be dead on...it's got some inherent sloppiness that some folks are willing to live with in order to own an affordable jig. I'm continuing to take a look at the Leigh jig...wow very pricey but my time is worth something and If I pay more to avoid fighting constant setup problems then it may be money well spent.

[Tom Esh]

Mine don't come out perfectly flush either (they always require at least some sanding), but I'd agree 1/32 seems extreme. (FWIW the centering of the workpiece edge between the template fingers effects the position of the DTs, but not the edge alignment.) Assuming your workpieces are cut square and positioned properly, relative indexing of the workpieces is the only remaining issue, and the offset guide is key in that regard. No idea what PC considers acceptable, but if you don't want to fiddle with it anymore, it might be worth a call.

[Michael W. Clark]

I just set mine up the other day for some drawers. The firts step is to put the top board in (drawer front or back) and clamp it and secure the template flat to the top board. The top board should not stick out past the front of the jig, it is only there to align the template at this point. Move the edge guide all the way over to the left so it is out of the way. Then, install the finger board (drawer sides) so that it is up against the template all the way across the width and you can center it betweeen the fingers by eye. Then measure if you wish to confrim it is centered.

Now you can unclamp the top board and move the edge guide over to the side of the pin board. Put the top board back in and up against the edge guide, and up against the pin board. The joint should be gap free, flush, and tight to the template. Now adjust the template in/out until the scribe lines meet at the intersection of the two boards. After you set the bit depth, you are ready to try it. I had to take a shallower cut than described or the joint was too tight. There is some troubleshooting info in the manual.

I wouldn't expect the joints to be perfect with any jig or cutting them by hand. I'm not that good, even if the the stock is prepared properly. I'll clean it up with the sander. The rough joints look better than the "custom" store-bought kitchen drawer dovetails in our kitchen.

If I were getting another jig, I would get one with adjustable fingers. The large PC also has dust collection and a bar to rest the router on. Those items would be a big plus as well.

Hope this helps,

Mike

[Paul Wunder]

Scott,

The Woodsmith Shop television program (season three) had an excellent episode on making dovetails using the Porter Cable 4212. They spent time showing how to setup and how to adjust for precise dovetails. I haven't used my 4212 yet but I have a DVD of the TV episode. For me, I learn best by videos or live demonstration and then by practicing.

Paul

[Matt Meiser]

I was going to mention the same episode. I too haven't set mine up and have the episode saved on my DVR for when I get around to it.

[Vijay Kumar]

Scott,
This may or may not help you but the Sawdust shop in Sunnyvale offers a dovetail class where they use a Keller jig and a PC 4212 jig. The instructor Ward Bingham is quite knowledgeable and helpful.
Vijay

[scott vroom]

After an unproductive call with Porter Cable tech support I've discovered the root cause of the misalignment: The steel offset guide was manufactured out of spec. I discovered this by inserting a .032" feeler gauge between the guide and the vertical board, essentially pushing the vertical to the right by .032. This corrects 95% of the misalignment....prolly need to space it a bit wider to get it to perfection.

I'm going to order 2 new offset guides to see if they're any better (the offset guide on the right side of the jig is also out of spec, but to a lesser degree). If the new guides don't fix it then my choices are to incorporate a feeler gauge into the setup process, or buy a jig manufactured to tighter tolerances (I'm thinking Leigh).

I knew I was taking a chance by skimping and going with the PC4212 initially rather than the Leigh so I'm not complaining.....you get what you pay for.

Hopefully this is helpful to any fellow Creekers that are experiencing a similar alignment problem. I can post pics if anyone is interested, but it's pretty straight forward.

In the past I've just sanded away the misalignment, but I've begun dressing the top drawer edges with a 1/16" roundover and sanding the round edge away makes the drawer look like (more of) a hack job (than it already is) :)

Thanks for the responses guys.

[Michael W. Clark]

After an unproductive call with Porter Cable tech support I've discovered the root cause of the misalignment: The steel offset guide was manufactured out of spec. I discovered this by inserting a .032" feeler gauge between the guide and the vertical board, essentially pushing the vertical to the right by .032. This corrects 95% of the misalignment....prolly need to space it a bit wider to get it to perfection.

I apologize if I do not understand your statement above. The edge guide is adjustable left to right on both sides. It is mounted with a allen head screw. Set your vertical board in centered between the fingers with the edge guide out of the way (alll the way to the left if you are working on the left side). Then move the edge guide over to the board. This should give you repetative, centered alignment each time for the vertical board.

If you did this and it is still offset, then the top step in the guide may not be correct such that the horizontal board is not offset the proper distance from the vertical board. Maybe this is what you are referring to?

If you cut your boards the proper width for the jig, you should have a symmetrical pattern on the joint. Mine have a slight misalignment, but not like you are talking about. I'm going to sand mine flush before softening the edges.
Mike

[Bill Huber]

Scott, I just went out and checked my stops and this is what they are.
Left = 1.752 and the offset 1.494 Right = 1.749 and the off set is 1.502
I use the PC 43777PC bit and have had no problems with it at all.

[scott vroom]

If you did this and it is still offset, then the top step in the guide may not be correct such that the horizontal board is not offset the proper distance from the vertical board. Maybe this is what you are referring to?



Yup...that's exactly what I was referring to. This is not a setup or adjustment issue; the horizontal section of the offset guide is not calibrated accurately with the vertical portion (or vice-versa). It's a single piece of stamped steel and it was manufactured out of spec. The reason some of the other posters don't have the problem is that the offset guide(s) on their jigs were manufactured in spec. All machinery is manufactured to tolerances....+/- x.xxxxxx. The tighter the tolerance, the more expensive the part (tight tolerances means more reject scrap). Outgoing QA is supposed to catch and reject out of spec parts, but mistakes occur and bad parts get shipped. So, in my view, either Porter Cable chooses to ship parts intentionally to loose tolerances to keep costs down, or they have an outgoing QA problem. Like I said, you usually get the quality you pay for. I have nothing bad to say about Porter Cable, and the 4212 jig works great using the feeler gauge to align the boards.

[Al Bacon]

Hi Scott

Did you ever get the alignment issue with your Porter Cable 4212 dovetail jig straightened out? I ask because I am having the same issue with my new jig. The tail and pin pieces are misaligned by about 1/32. It would seem that the problem is in the side stops. Did they ever send replacements that were correct?

Al Bacon

[George Bokros]

Scott,

The Woodsmith Shop television program (season three) had an excellent episode on making dovetails using the Porter Cable 4212. They spent time showing how to setup and how to adjust for precise dovetails. I haven't used my 4212 yet but I have a DVD of the TV episode. For me, I learn best by videos or live demonstration and then by practicing.

Paul

Anyone know how to get a copy for the full episode? Maybe some one that has it saved could email or burn a copy to a dvd for me?

[Joe Scharle]

When I set up a dovetail jig (1/2" fingers), I scribe a mark 1/2" on the left edge of the top (pin/end) board. That's the offset for the side (tail) board. Using this as an alignment mark you don't even need the side stops. You can cut the boards in the middle of the jig. However, most people would rather use the parts they paid for and want the side stops to perform their function. Setting the 2 boards to this mark should help you get the side stops in their proper places.

[Al Bacon]

When I set up a dovetail jig (1/2" fingers), I scribe a mark 1/2" on the left edge of the top (pin/end) board. That's the offset for the side (tail) board. Using this as an alignment mark you don't even need the side stops. You can cut the boards in the middle of the jig. However, most people would rather use the parts they paid for and want the side stops to perform their function. Setting the 2 boards to this mark should help you get the side stops in their proper places.

Thanks Joe

Sometimes the simplest of things sit right in front of you and you never see them. I will give that a try. It certainly makes sense.

Al

[scott vroom]

Hi Scott

Did you ever get the alignment issue with your Porter Cable 4212 dovetail jig straightened out? I ask because I am having the same issue with my new jig. The tail and pin pieces are misaligned by about 1/32. It would seem that the problem is in the side stops. Did they ever send replacements that were correct?

Al Bacon

Al, not only did Porter Cable not send replacement parts, they denied there was a problem with manufacturing tolerances which is likely total BS. I worked in mfg ops for many years and I know only too well that processes get out of spec and need to be recalibrated. I also know from direct experience that a certain amount of slop is not only expected but also accepted as a means to keep costs down. It's not economically feasible to manufacturer every product to 6-sigma. So I use my feeler gauge and enjoy my self-calibrated, affordable PC jig. I just wish the manufacturers were more truthful and not try so hard to cover up the obvious. You didn't mention brand...is yours also a PC 4212?

[Al Bacon]

HI Scott

Yep it's a 4212.

[Earl McLain]

Good tip Joe. Since right after i got my PC jig, i've been scribing the first vertical workpiece to set my bit depth. Nothing wrong with the idea of the depth stop they put on the machine, but it's in an area that doesn't get light--so a depth scribe is quick and easy for me!!
earl

[Randy Hughes SJ]

This is an old thread, but since I am having the same issue I thought I would respond. Drawer sides were not aligning - off by more than 1/16" on side registration. I checked a few parts of the jig and found the "forks" on the template are not drilled correctly (since they are countersunk, there is no adjustment). One side is skewed by 1/32" so the offset is off by almost 1/16" when I turn the template. This results in the sides being out of alignment by 1/16" plus and I have to trim the drawers at the table saw. I will be calling PC to see about a new template, but in the short term I loosened the screw on one side of the fork, aligned the fork, and put a little loc-tight (purple) under the screw head to hold it in place (leaving the screw just loose enough so it won't push the alignment back out). It appears this fixed the registration issue for me.

[Mike Goetzke]

Scott - one other check to make is that the guide bushing is centered on the bit. This will affect the tightness of the joint but not the alignment.

Mike

[Paul Wunder]

http://www.woodworkingonline.com/2007/04/30/podcast-20-machine-cut-dovetails/

Above is a link to a podcast done by Bryan Nelson from Woodsmith magazine on how to cut dovetails using a Porter Cable 4212. It is quite detailed (and wordy) and runs about an hour. I think you need to choose podcast #20 and then download it to your PC in various formats

[Dan Joosten]

When I set up a dovetail jig (1/2" fingers), I scribe a mark 1/2" on the left edge of the top (pin/end) board. That's the offset for the side (tail) board. Using this as an alignment mark you don't even need the side stops. You can cut the boards in the middle of the jig. However, most people would rather use the parts they paid for and want the side stops to perform their function. Setting the 2 boards to this mark should help you get the side stops in their proper places.

I've been having the same problem using the edge guide for the mini template since you need to use different edge guides. I like your suggestion to mark the top board instead of using the guide. I guess I would need to mark it a 1/4 instead for the mini template. There definitely has to be something wrong with the guide since I can't get the boards to line up no matter how carefully I align them to the guide. Marking it would be much more accurate I would guess. Thanks for the tip.

[Mike Gresham]

This video may be of some help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTRCSAM-YTk
It was made my one of SMC's members.