Stanley 45 - how much to pay, what to look for?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

A friend of mine told me one of the local antique/junk shops (it's sort of somewhere inbetween) has a Stanley combination plane for sale. He thinks it was a 45. He says it was listed as "complete w/o box", and that it had two wooden boxes of full of cutters included with it.

I haven't had a chance to look it over yet to see if it's good shape and what exactly is included. Knowing this shop, it could be ridiculously overpriced, or a good deal.

I thought I might take a peek tomorrow. I'm not in some huge rush to buy any plane, but some upcoming projects have me thinking a nicer plough than the mujinfang I have would be nice, and a tongue and groove plane would be nice, and nothing in a decent wooden version, like I'd prefer, has come up for either.

I've been browsing around the net, (I've got Patrick Leach's site up in another window right now) trying to figure out what I should look for, but I know a couple folks here use these planes - (I think Jim, you've mentioned using one?) and I'm wondering what I should be looking out for, besides the obvious, and what be a fair price to pay for one if it was in good shape with all the cutters? I mean, I can see what they've gone for on eBay, but that could mean anything. Usually I just weigh the cost of these vintage tools versus how much time I think it's going to take me to get them in working condition versus what a new plane of a similar type would cost from LN or LV. That works well for bench planes. I'm not sure how to make that comparison here.

[David Weaver]

I'd buy it for plowing and beading only (I wouldn't even buy it for beading, a beading plane does a better job and they're not uncommon), and to get a good deal, I'd get the body separately unless they come with an incomplete set of irons or just plow irons.

I once had a cherry 55 full set, and two 45s. I don't have any of them now. If you're buying a complete one, I'd top out somewhere around $150 if it's absolutely complete without a box and in pristine shape, and I wouldn't be that comfortable paying that. The benefit, if you're not sure how long you'll keep it, is that a full set is easier to resell.

45s do some things fine, but they don't plow as nicely as a good wooden plow, they don't T&G nearly as nice as a nice T&G plane set, and the rest of the stuff they get torched by moulding planes.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Yeah, I'd prefer some decent wooden planes for anything fancy, or maybe a 48/49 for T&G, and I'd really like a decent proper plow - I'd kind of like a nice wooden one. (I'm not even sure I know what to look for a in a wooden plow, or what type I'd want, though - I figure at some point I'll pay a bit of a premium for one and buy from reputable dealer - I think the big thing I'm looking for is matched irons over anything else on that front. With enough gumption and enough tries I suppose I might be able to make the stock if I needed to, and could certainly make a new wedge to fit matched irons to another plane.)

But I'm kind of just thinking if I can get this for a decent price it could serve some purposes for me, and then go on it's merry way to someone else in the future. I don't have a router anymore, nor any other "proper" power tools. I guess I've some vague ideas of what I might be willing to pay, but no idea if those numbers were fantastically out of bounds one way or the other.

I suppose the most economical route for T&G is just to plow grooves with my plow and make tongues with my filletster. Maybe hack away some excess with a chisel first.

[Jim Neeley]

I've been browsing around the net, (I've got Patrick Leach's site up in another window right now) trying to figure out what I should look for, but I know a couple folks here use these planes - (I think Jim, you've mentioned using one?) and I'm wondering what I should be looking out for, besides the obvious, and what be a fair price to pay for one if it was in good shape with all the cutters?

Joshua,

I'll tell you what I did that worked well for me. I contacted Patrick, let him know truthfully I'd been referred by fellow SMC Neanders where others had recommended this approach, and told him what I was looking for and asked him to get back with me on what he had that would best seem to fit. He has lots of inventory that isn't yet on his web site so asked me what I was important to me (maker, age, usability or "show") and went looking through it and came up with a good recommendation for me at a reasonable price.

From what I've been told and what I've experienced, Patrick knows the value of his products but does not try to gouge others. You won't steal it, but you won't get taken either. This is the value in dealing with a reputable dealer.

Just my opinion, YMMV.

Jim

[Eric Brown]

If you can, take a straight edge and check the runners for straightness. Sometimes these planes are dropped nose first. You can also look for flaking plating. Avoid rust. These are hard to clean planes.

Like others have mentioned, Patrick will sell you a plane in good mechanical shape if you ask him. Some other dealers are also very honest and know their stuff. That's the safe bet.

On the other hand Lee Valley has a small plow available with hints about a large one sometime in the future.

Good luck. Eric

[Archie England]

I like my #45 (actually I have more than one). All of them work! However, I've discovered that my wood planes work better ( think, support construction); but, for cutting groves, the 45 works well, too! I'm not sure where the trade-off occurs, but for me I reach for the 45 for cuts under 1/2" wide, with the 1/4 cuts being the easiest.

Now, for value.....a complete 45 with 21 cutters or more, in very nice condition and few blemishes, will typically be in the $150-250 range--with little rhyme or reason for variance. I like owning a vintage piece of history; and I like being able to use it productively--it works! But with my use of these over the last few years, I'd suggest that the bullet-proof purchase is the LV small plough plane. Chris Griggs, fellow SMC and neighbor, bought one and I love how easy and non-fussy that plane is to set up and use. it is to simple what the 45 is to complex.

[Jim Neeley]

On the other hand Lee Valley has a small plow available with hints about a large one sometime in the future.


I was using mine this weekend, practicing my DT's / drawer making. Sweet!!!

[Chris Griggs]

The LV small plow is not cheap, but it really is very very nice to use. Possibly the nicest to use and most fun plane I own. It only does a couple things, but it does them incredibly well and the plane is virtually idiot proof. I finally bought one because I got a generous LV gift card from my dad last xmas. I've used Archie's 45s a little bit. They get the job done, but they are a little fiddly. Personally, if I were going to go vintage I'd be more attracted to a record 44 or 43 just because they are simpler planes. I can't say with any authority that I'd like the records better than the stanley 45 since I've never used the records, but they do go for less, and again, my perception of their simplicity is attractive to me.

[Jim Koepke]

Here are a couple posts on the Stanley 45:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?116419-Planes-and-a-Few-Things-to-Look-For&p=1176704#post1176704

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?121761-Specialty-Planes-for-quot-Neanderthal-Wisdom-quot&p=1239963#post1239963

The first is a few things to look for when buying a #45.

The second is a little on the use.

For individual sizes, wooden body planes will be a bit easier to use. That is often the case when a tool that is made to do a multitude of functions compared to a tool that is made for a single purpose.

My #45s are used often. The more they are used the easier it is to get them to work well. A very sharp blade will go a long way in making them work better.

I think $225 was the most I have ever paid was for 2 planes in a set. One was a Stanley the other was a Wards model made by Stanley. The set also included the 23 special cutters that are almost impossible to find.

If the plane is a later type with the adjustable fence and has all the original cutters including the slitter and doesn't have damage or other missing parts, then $150 wouldn't be a great price, it wouldn't be a bad price. I have not kept up with prices of late, so I do not know what they are selling for at present. A quick look at ebay tells me that like usual, they are all over the place and condition is everything.

The first adjustable fence model had the locking screw trap the adjusting screw. This is not as good as the later design which traps one of the sliding rods.

Some of the parts are almost impossible to find or when found will cost dearly. The fence locking screw is commonly missing and seldom is offered on ebay. The fence will wobble without the locking screw.

jtk

[Craig J Brain]

Thanks for posting all this info on the Stanley 45's. I recently picked up a Montgomery Ward version of the 45 and love it, but have yet to master it's use. I can do the beading okay, but not yet as well as how I do it with my #66. With a lot of practice, and a lot more timber offcuts, I expect to improve. The advice about grips and separate tasking of hands has been invaluable.

Craig J. Brain
Canberra