Am I over thinking exterior screws?

[Brian Kent]

I am making an outdoor bench. The plans call for stainless steel flat head wood screws. (30 - #8x2" and 12 - #8x3") I can find stainless steel screws this size at McFeeley's but I would prefer not to spend over $40 for the screws for this project, because of the minimum quantities.

I also have a box of Home Depot GritRite Primeguard Ten 2" exterior screws. Some of these will be connecting the slats to the structural cleats, where it could hold moisture.

Do I need to go for the stainless steel or will the GripRites avoid rusting away?
It is a memorial bench that is supposed to last for a whole long time.

If I need stainless steel, is there a source for smaller quantities?

Thanks

So many questions to answer, so many universes to discover, and I don't want to pay $40 for each answer.

[Dan Rude]

I've used the Deckmate screws for several years, they do fine as long as you don't chip them when driving them. I've noticed the ones on my back stairs are rusting where my driver slipped, the others look good. You might look at Rockler for the 2" SS.
Dan

[Mort Stevens]

Both Lowes and Home Depot sell stainless screws in bags - you get like 2 screws for a buck. That's usually where I get my stainless steel screws, I don't use enough of them to justify buying in bulk. When you figure the amount of time you put into a project, the cost of screws really amounts to nothing.

[Matthew Williams]

From what I've seen, the coated screws will last a long time with intermittent use, but not nearly as long as stainless. Like Dan said, once the coating chips or wears away it'll start rusting.

Not that I'm trying to plug my employer, but try an ACE hardware store if you have one locally. The one I work at carries stainless decking screws in small boxes, but I wouldn't know if they'd be any cheaper than what you're looking at online or if they'd have the size you need in stock, since each one can carry different items. It's free to call and ask though!

Mort's right too, if you want this to last as long as possible get the stainless. The extra $20 won't seem like much when you're looking at the bench 20 years from now.

[Cody Colston]

Like Mort said, you can get the screws in small packages at Lowe's or Home Depot.

I also believe that stainless is the only way to go when building outdoor projects. I make a lot of outdoor furniture, especially Adirondack chairs and I buy 1 5/8" SS square drive screws in the 5# boxes.

[Paul Incognito]

My local lumberyard has epoxy coated screws that have worked well for me. A quick google search turned up this: http://fasteners.hardwarestore.com/19-72-deck-screws-bulk/green-epoxy-coated-premium-deck-screws-116217.aspx
Hope this helps,
Paul

[Sam Murdoch]

NOT ALL STAINLESS SCREWS ARE CREATED EQUAL. Our local lumber yard sells stainless screws by (Stallion- I think) and they are junk. They strip and snap and are otherwise just awful. I truly am impressed by GRKs. They are tourque screws that you can drive in and out and never break. I believe they make a stainless colored (actually might be stainless, don't know for sure). I have always used the gold ones. They are absolutely the best! Yes, they look good after years of exposure too- a little less shiny but otherwise OK.

I would NEVER depend on screws from a box store. That's just me, my friends call me a screw snob :rolleyes:

Sam

[Joe Angrisani]

NOT ALL STAINLESS SCREWS ARE CREATED EQUAL......I would NEVER depend on screws from a box store......

I'll second that.

[Brian Kent]

I just ordered the screws from McFeeley's.

The stainless steel screws were not available at my Home Depot, and to order them online would be $39, with a half dozen extras for loss or breakage.
From McFeeley's it is $44 and I have 170 screws left over, plus a far greater confidence in their strength. Plus I like square drive much more than phillips.

Thanks everybody for your good input.

[Steve Meliza]

I see I'm a little late in posting this, but they have SPAX in smaller quantities, you could get the #9x2" and #10x3" http://www.mcfeelys.com/ss-spax-screws

My approach to stainless is to bit the bullet and get the boxes of 100 then when I need a stainless screw or two I have them handy. I probably would have placed the same order you did.

Stainless steel is softer than regular screws so you want to use a little larger screw than normal and be gentle with them. I'd be wary of stainless screws that are stronger as that means they're likely 410 and less corrosion resistant than 305/306/316.

[John Coloccia]

I'll second that.

I'll third it.

There is a growing industry of fake aviation hardware. Screws, nuts, etc. Think about this for a second. We're talking about nuts and bolts that people's lives depend on, and we're talking about hardware where theoretically I could trace every nut and bolt back to it's precise manufacturing details, and probably even where the raw metal came from...and yet, counterfeit hardware is a serious and growing problem despite the paper trail.

Now think about where random hardware at the BORG comes from, and then wonder why so many people have problems with twisting off screw heads.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I am making an outdoor bench. The plans call for stainless steel flat head wood screws. (30 - #8x2" and 12 - #8x3") I can find stainless steel screws this size at McFeeley's but I would prefer not to spend over $40 for the screws for this project, because of the minimum quantities.


Brian -

I get SS screws, among other stuff at Bolt Depot dot com. Your requirements would be under $15, plus shipping.

[phil harold]

Why not use brass screws?

little more work to not to damage them while installing
but if they can hold up on the ocean I think they wood work on your bench

[Peter Quinn]

Am I over thinking exterior screws?
In my experience, no. You didn't mention what species you are using, but that can make a difference. Mahogany, cedar, white oak and a few others are fairly acidic, which can cause problems for certain types of coated fasteners. And pressure treat is a whole other problem. Stainless will handle anything. I too have been screwed by cheap hardware store fasteners and find its best to avoid them. I can distinctly remember throwing out a whole box of stainless deck screws I bough in a pinch in the middle of a porch remodel and going to my local lumber yard the following Monday to replace them. I had heads popping, stripping, breaking half way in. Nightmare. I'd probably run in 5000 "Scorpian" brand screws from my building supplier, no screw failures not directly caused by me. You won't be sorry you went with the good stuff. Just today I dismantled an out door shower I built 5 years ago (it will become a picknick table now) and was actually able to reuse about 80% of the stainless screws that came out of it. My son asked why I was recycling screws! At $45/box I'm certainly going to try.

[Brian Kent]

Peter, I am making the bench out of white oak. The 3" screws go through long grain and the a couple of inches into end grain on the arms and braces. Strength is really important, which is why I can't use brass or anything that might snap off. I will pre-drill.

[Roger Feeley]

I used Home Depot coated deck screws to make an outdoor set of steps about 10 years ago. They are still fine.

[Ted Calver]

Lowe's has square drive ss screws in boxes of 50 or so. I use them all the time for outdoor projects. No Lowe's nearby?

[Brian Kent]

Yes, but I already ordered the McFeeley's.

[Carl Beckett]

Stainless steel is softer than regular screws so you want to use a little larger screw than normal and be gentle with them. I'd be wary of stainless screws that are stronger as that means they're likely 410 and less corrosion resistant than 305/306/316.

Was just getting ready to chime in on this, and Steve said it. Be careful of stainless that has a high yield strength - it means its not as corrosion resistant. 410, 18-8, etc - are more form able from a manufacturing standpoint, but much less resistant to corrosion. The thing is, I dont know how you would tell before buying (if possible try a magnet on them - the good stuff shouldnt be magnetic).

(I know you already ordered Brian, but still a useful thread to hear other sourcing options - I have an arbor just starting that will have this very need)

[Larry Edgerton]

If you have the need again, and you have any marine supply outfits close by, they will have what you want.

Larry

[Sam Murdoch]

Here is a good link about the various grades and use of stainless steel:http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=536&title=Stainless+Steel+Grades+Explained+-+Suncor

[Jim Becker]

The reason that many outdoor projects call for stainless steel isn't just about rust, but also discoloration from reaction to the wood. And "cheap" SS doesn't necessarily solve the problem. I personally use the McFeeley's SS and have always been pleased with the results. Even when I recently "retired" a couple of Adirondack chairs that were made many years ago, I was able to recover the fasteners and they are "like new".

Like any project material, using the best quality you can afford will usually also provide the best results.

[Brian Kent]

Just for discussion sake. The McFeeley's are 305 Stainless Steel. I am curious if there is a description (like the one on Jamestown Distributors) that includes more grades.

Edit: Found one - http://www.ssina.com/download_a_file/fasteners.pdf
Strength properties of 305 ss seem to be close to the 304 ss on Jamestown chart

[Sam Murdoch]

That's quite a read Brian. Between are 2 links is more info than the average woodworker will ever need for his/her screw selecting :)