spindle gouge or detail gouge??

[Brent Dorner]

I'm new to turning, actually just received my new lathe last week. I currently have a small round nose scraper, 3/4 skew and parting tool, these are cheap craftsman chisels I picked up on craigslist... they work fine but are all I have for now.

I'm looking at doing some pepper grinders and bottle stoppers, basically spindles. I was looking at getting a gouge to make beads and coves, but I'm confused between a spindle gouge and a detail gouge... both of the 3/8th variety. I was looking at something like this to get me started...

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LX320.html

...I have a limited budget and this fits nicely into my price point. Or do I need something like this... http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=tools-pkrd-deagou ...for what I am looking to do?


I was wondering if the first would do the job, or if I could grind the first one to look more like the second with more of a swept back design?

Thanks,
Brent

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

I think a nice 3/8" spindle gouge would suit you well for a first tool. Don't go crazy spending too much money because you will probably use much of the first tool learning to sharpen it. Every time you watch a new spindle turning DVD you will want to try the grind shown on that DVD. Pretty soon the tool will be getting shorter. Spend more on the next one. It will last you forever.
faust

[Dennis Ford]

Either a spindle gouge or detail gouge will work fine for beads and coves. A 3/8" detail gouge will have more metal and a smaller flute than a 3/8" spindle gouge. My suggestion would be to buy a spindle gouge now and only get the detail gouge when you think that you need it.

[John Keeton]

Brent, the main difference in a detail gouge vs. spindle gouge is more in the flute profile. The detail gouge has a more shallow flute, with correspondingly more metal under the flute - a little heavier tool. It will have less tendency to chatter, and used correctly, it will do a cleaner cut on profiling beads, etc., which is why it is referred to as a "detail" gouge. I use a 3/8" detail gouge a lot, but I would think for bottle stoppers and pepper mills, one could get by easily with the spindle gouge - particularly given a tight budget.

As to the grind, I use the same angle on both the spindle and detail gouge, but I tend to sweep the wings back a bit further on the detail gouge, resulting in a little sharper nose. But, that is purely a personal choice. One will find that grinds vary widely among users - it is kind of whatever feels good to you and what do you become accustomed to. Confidence in the cut means everything. Make it work for you - doesn't matter if it works for everyone else.

[Jamie Donaldson]

I recommend the detail gouge profile as a stronger and more versatile tool for spindle turning. The advantage of the extra metal mass supporting the cutting edge allows working further off the tool rest, and less vibration and chatter than flex from the thinner spindle gouge.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I really don't have an answer for the detail vs spindle, but let me mention the Harbor Frieght set. Since you're on a budget, HF offers 2 sets, 43 and 60 bucks. They have different tools and I really think they are an awesome starter set of tools. I still use most of mine. The only ones I no longer use is the roughing gouges. The more expensive set does have a nice spindle gouge. They are probably much better than your current Craftsman tools.

Welcome to the vortex

[Mark Levitski]

I got two detail gouges before I got my first standard spindle gouge. I am mostly a bowl and hollow form turner, but I also do some lamps, vases, and weed pots. My main tool is the bowl gouge, and I have mostly mastered that. My reasons for getting the detail gouges were similar to what has been stated, especially the extra beef under the flute for stability off the toolrest. I recenly, after some 7 years of turning, bought my first spindle gouges. Wow, and an "AHA" moment. Wish I had done that a long time ago. They made my spindle work a lot easier.

I would strongly recommend getting the traditional spindle gouge first. The detail gouges I have are ground with a very long bevel at a flat angle (35-40 degrees). It is the combination of the bevel angle along with the profile of the flute cross section that causes this. The long bevel makes it much more difficult for me to make a lot of cuts. It is a steering thing as I am cutting. Grinding the heel off of the bevel or secondary bevels helps a little.

I have found little difference in the "stability" of the spindle gouge with its less thick cross section of steel. My spindle gouges are easy to use--a real pleasure. If you get one, get a good one. I have had the Craftsman tools since I started, and the spindle gouges in that set do not compare to the Crown Pro PM ones I recently bought. Other good manufacturers should prove the same.

I like my detail gouges too. I have used them to turn very small beads on some of my bowls. They are just not for general use IMO. Spindle gouges are.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I like my detail gouges. I agree with Jamie.

[Thom Sturgill]

When I took a course at Campbell, the instructor used an inexpensive spindle gouge (packard, I believe) and reground it as needed to change from a 35 degree to 25 degree (included angle) tip. He considered these as 'consumables' because he went through a couple of them every year...

I would go with the detail gouge and grind as needed until I figured out what worked for me. My detail gouge is one of my go-to tools and in fact I have a Thompson 1/4" laying on my desk that I need to go turn a handle for. His seem thicker under the flute than most, and turning your own handles lets you buy better steel.

As to the Harbor Freight set, I used to recommend them but don't any more. The english spindle gouges would not hold an edge when I got them and quickly got to a point that they would not take an edge, though I still use the 'german' or 'continental' spindle gouges and the small skew, I am looking to replace them soon. Using them reminds me of what I heard my father (a luthier) say many times about buying a cheap guitar or fiddle - you can learn to note it, but even a master can not make it sound good while investing in a fine instrument will encourage the player rather than discourage him and might have a resale value if he decided to stop learning.

[Deane Allinson]

Since you're on a budget, HF offers 2 sets, 43 and 60 bucks. They have different tools and I really think they are an awesome starter set of tools. I still use most of mine. The only ones I no longer use is the roughing gouges.
Welcome to the vortex

I second this. I still use mine too. Good cheap starter set. Pick up better ones as you need or learn more.
Deane

[Mike Peace]

I use a 3/8 Thompson detail gouge which I like for detail work. Works great on finials and putting beads on a bowl, side or bottom. I also have a 1/2" P&N spindle gouge I like a lot. I had not heard of Thompson tools when I got it. It is my go to spindle gouge when doing end grain hollowing on boxes when the detail gouge does not seem to work as well. For longer surfaces on a spindle ( could be a box), I seem to get smoother surfaces with fewer ripples using the 1/2 inch with a broader tip. I believe you will get a better buy with a Thompson gouge you put a handle on than the Packard tool.

[Prashun Patel]

I have a 1/4" detail gouge from Thompson. I love it and can't see needing a spindle gouge.

[John Keeton]

Brent, as you can see, most folks, including me, love their detail gouges. I have the 3/8" Thompson, and it is one of my favorite tools. I also have two 1/4" Thompson detail gouges - one ground with a little sharper nose, and they are the tools I use for fine cuts.

But, you mentioned bottle stoppers and pepper mills, neither of which usually has a lot of fine detailing, though I am starting to see more of that in some very fine examples being posted. For that purpose, and in order for you to save money, the spindle gouge will get the job done. Like Mike, for long curves, I think a spindle gouge will give you a better surface.

I also have the Harbor Freight set - my first turning tools. I still use many of them, including the roughing gouge, parting tool, 3/4" spindle gouge, and scraper. IMO, they are a very good starter set.

[Mark Levitski]

I stand self-corrected: my 5/8" detail gouge is ground to +/- 20 degrees! Wow, now that's flat. I never measured the angle but got thinking about it. Now I know why the bevel is soooo long, at least an inch. My 1/2 detail is truly a 40 degree grind. I still like my normal spindle gouges for general cutting. I was shaping the outside of an endgrain hollow form with my 1/2 " spindle gouge today, and I wouldn't think to have used te detail gouges. I did however use one for detailing the bead at the rim.

P.S.- Both of my detail gouges have long swept-back wings (to reach better into tight places?). I have not modified this or the angle. They came that way from Crown. My spindle gouges are a medium fingernail grind w/ a 40 degree angle.