Outdoors project

[Jay Jolliffe]

What I need is a wood that will except paint or stain & not rot or last 20+ yrs. I have a Japanese Torii gate to build & need Ideas on the wood for the legs. They will be set into cement or pinned to ledge....I have to build something like this229305
As you can see I live In Maine....

[Kent A Bathurst]

One option is WRC - Western Red Cedar. It paints and stains great. I use it exclusively for the outdoor projects I do. I would put it at 20 years...........the weak link will be the posts into the concrete. I don't know the dimensions you are looking at there, but if you can find a supplier that can supply all-heart for the posts, you'll be further ahead of the game.

We've got some Pacific Northwest guys here that would hopefully weigh in.

[Steve Friedman]

I know this is a woodworking forum, but based on where you live, have you considered something that just looks like wood - like the non-wood decking material? If that doesn't appeal to you, there was a FWW article a while ago that compared several outdoor finishes. The most weatherproof was to start with CPES (available from Jamestown Distributors) as a base to let the wood fibers get filled with the epoxy and then finish with Epifanes (Made in Maine) marine spar varnish (7 coats I think). Epifanes also makes excellent marine grade paint (I'm about to try some over CPES on some Adirondack chairs). Not cheap, however, with that finish, I'm not sure whether the species of wood actually matters. I would use what the wooden boat builders use - white oak, pine, cedar, and marine grade plywood.

Steve
Steve

[Richard Shaefer]

Unless you're building that thing to Spinal Tap scale, people are gonna be walking under it pretty regularly. I think I'd use white oak and several good coats of primer and paint. I also really don't like the idea of setting the wood in concrete. There are a number of specialty brackets out there that can be set in the concrete and will keep the wood from contacting it and rotting. you can cover the brackets with your base trim.

[Bob Lloyd]

I have used red cedar for pergolas with good success. I would definitely not set the posts in concrete, it accelerates decay.

[Jim Matthews]

I must confess ignorance of Japanese framing - but what materials did they prefer?

I would agree with Bob that if you employ something like Azek PVC as the "Kamebara" foot, water will not migrate into the upright "Hashira".
If it was me, I would investigate laminating some local cedar - hardwoods will be very difficult to muscle around, at that height.

It's an interesting project, and would be worthy of some pictures to post here.
(Include the parts that don't go well, so we can avoid them.)

Woodfinder.net returns 10 lumber suppliers near 04848, including Maine Cedar speciality (http://www.mainecedar.com/index.php) products in Ludlow.
I would start with someone that knows your environment, they can probably point you in the right direction.


This sounds very cool.

[HANK METZ]

Legend has it that it is believed that if you throw a coin and it lands on the top of a Torii gate you get instant acceptance into heaven; however, if you miss the top or it falls off you go to hell. One toss chance only, and if you knock off another's coin they get sent to hell. I don't know what happens if the gate rots and falls, but I think the missed coin toss rule would be applied to the builder. :eek:

- Beachside Hank
The use of nails in fine furniture is to be abhorred- drywall screws are preferred.

[Jamie Buxton]

I wouldn't put wood in the ground. It is too likely to rot. I'd put concrete in the ground, and shape the top of it into that "kamebara" shown in your diagram. I'd cast a steel pipe in the concrete that would go a good ways up inside the post. I'd build up the post from four pieces of lumber, or I'd rip the post, hollow the middle, and glue it back together. You don't say the size of your gate, but you're likely to need a crane to get the beam on the top. If so, dropping the wood post on the steel pipe is also a crane task.

[Richard Shaefer]

Seems like a few of us here are under the impression that this would be made from solid timber. I was under the impression that it would be box sections. which is right?

[Chris Tsutsui]

I would keep the wood above grade if possible, mounted to a galvanized steel bracket on a foundation like a pier block or something. Cement can soak up moisture which can wick into the wood post if that post is set deep in the cement.

The big question is what coating or stain to use as I see that as the determining factor to make something look good after 20 years.

[Joe Angrisani]

What I need is a wood that will except paint or stain & not rot or last 20+ yrs. I have a Japanese Torii gate to build & need Ideas on the wood for the legs. They will be set into cement or pinned to ledge....Last edited by Jay Jolliffe; Today at 3:29 AM. Reason: spelling....The computer doesn't know how to spell

I'm not sure what kind of wood would be best if you don't want the paint or stain to stick. Some of the exotic tropical woods are full of natural oils, and that may help. But I must admit it's an odd question regarding wood that resists painting.

Perhaps you meant "will accept paint or stain"?

[Jay Jolliffe]

Joe....I said will except paint or stain....I know putting the post's in cement will make them rot faster. The probelm is that this is to be built on ledge....So I guess core drill a deep hole,put in a peice of galvanized pipe, then pour a pad of cement with the pipe sticking out about 16" or so. Make a base from some paintable composite & sit the post on that. Will that work....I don't think it will be as tall as in the drawing. Just maybe 7-8'....

[Kent A Bathurst]

Here's something to consider. Pressure treated lumber will last beyond the 20 year design criteria. Use PT lumber and whatever [like WRC] to fabricate a post that has a PT base, but WRC above that. This is done very frequently for pole-barn type structures, to extend the life, but to reduce the cost.

An example of how it is done in that application:

Use 2 x 6 lumber for the base. Three pieces of PT, each a different length, to create a staggered top. Use 2x6 WRC butted to each piece of PT, and everything bolted together. The PT in general won't accept any adhesives, but the WRC will, so no fasteners are required if that presents a design issue. But - you will need to bolt the WRC to the PT. As an alternative, the WRC could be a solid post, notched to mate to the staggered PT base components.

Then, the joint is hidden by a wrapping/trim of some sort at ground level.

If I didn't explain it well, I can slap together a quick sketch if you are interested.


EDIT: Also - there is a critter known as pressure treated KDAT - kiln dried after treating. It is dry lumber. It is not prone to the extreme warping and splitting associated with normal PT. And, it is paintable. The problem is finding it. You'll need to do a bit of digging - almost certainly a specialty item that will need to be ordered for you, you just need to find someone that knows what you are talking about, and knows where to get it.

[Dell Littlefield]

Jay, do you mean you will accept paint or stain? Except means to most of us that you won't accept it.

[Jay Jolliffe]

Your right Dell.

[Joe Angrisani]

I was just funnin' with you, too, Jay.

But I can't help but wonder why you're talking about Dell's right side..... ;)

[Patrick Grady]

My garden fence was wiped clean by hurricane waters with only the posts left standing. The fence came with the house but was at least 16 yrs old. The posts were 4X4 pressure treated six feet long with two feet sunk in concrete. The lower garden/fence was subject to high standing water flooding scores of times over the years. I dug the posts out and chipped away the concrete (the aged concrete was extremely hard and strong). The wood was in remarkably good condition and after a few months of rains, I could hardly tell which end had been embedded in concrete. I am using the posts for all sorts of projects. In general I would try to find an alternative to embedding in concrete, but in this anecdotal instance, the wood held up well.