Fair price for a Minimax 16" bandsaw???

[Glen Blanchard]

Seen on CL.

"Powerful bandsaw with a 16" re-saw capacity. This is a beefy machine and yes, it is single phase. It has hardly been used. It has the mobile base and also with a saw this size, it has a food stop on it. It has a large cast iron table and comes with several new blades. The picture is from the Mini-Max web site. This saw is about 5 years old."

He's asking $2,495. Aren't these things about $3K brand new? If so, isn't $2,495 a bit optimistic?

[Jeff Duncan]

I don't know, but if your trying to lose some weight that "food stop" may come in pretty handy:D

JeffD

[David Kumm]

It depends on whether the saw is the latest upgrade. It was changed about three times over the past ten years. Go Charlie Plesums website at solowoodworker.com for info on the various MM machines. Dave

[Van Huskey]

If it is truely 5 years old it will be the current model with the 4.8hp motor and ~16" of resaw height, the last change would have been about 7 years ago.

The price is high in my estimation. Certainly you need to add the value of any extras. I have not priced the MM line since they removed the prices from the website but my guess would be 3200-3300 delivered. I think a used MM16 should be under 2K not a lot but still under. I don't remember the list price 5 years ago but that isn't a lot less than he would have paid for the saw itself.

[Dave Bonde]

I have that same saw - mine is about 4 years old. I can't remember exactly what I paid for it new but it was less than 3K and it came with several blades and the mobile kit. I would guess the asking price is about what it cost new then. I don't know what the price is now so that might make the older saws have a greater resale value kind of like the PM lathes. All said I think the price is on the high end.

[mreza Salav]

Here in Canada (Edmonton) where things are typically more expensive than in US I can get a MM16 with mobility kit from a dealer in the city for $2900 (No extra charge if you pick it up).
If I am buying use I'd want it to be under $2k mark for that.

[Jeff Monson]

$2495.00 is on the high side, I'd agree that under 2k is where it should be, given the age. $1800.00 would be a good deal IMO

[Mike Archambeau]

Paid $1800 for mine 2 years ago. The saw was built about the same time as the one you are looking at.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Glen
My MM16 off of Craigslist, was a 4 years old model with 4.6 HP motor, when I picked it up. Included was several blade two with carbide tips. For about half of his asking price. Tom

[Glen Blanchard]

Thanks for the replies guys. I offered him $1,500 via email early in the day. I have not yet heard back from him so he may be insulted. Oh well.

[Tom Hassad]

That's because I outbid you at $1501 and am taking delivery tomorrow.

[Van Huskey]

That's because I outbid you at $1501 and am taking delivery tomorrow.

Man, that is just evil if it is a joke... even more so if it were true... :D

[Brian Weick]

For 2500 you could get yourself a 30, 32 or 36" older 3ph ,Oliver,Tannewitz, Yates, Fay & Egan, Moak.... band saw.... that price is high IMO...but it may be in imaculant condition...I still think its overpriced....

JMPO.....


B,

[Jim Matthews]

If you have to move it, yourself, he's overpriced.

For a few dollars more, you can have a new MM16, and shipping will be part of the price.
This is more than I paid for my MM20.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

That's because I outbid you at $1501 and am taking delivery tomorrow.


Sad but true, I post here about a Powermatic lathe for some info on a Craigslist sale. The seller said "that after I talked to him he had over 10 calls about the lathe many from out of state, and not one call before I talked to him." I was lucky he sold to me only because I made the first offer. Tom

[Jim Becker]

Glen, be sure this is something you can look at before you put any money out...especially when there are misspellings in the ad like that. I do agree that the price the offeror listed is on the high end.

[Van Huskey]

This is more than I paid for my MM20.

It is also more than I paid for my MM20 as well.

[Glen Blanchard]

Yeah, I'd never buy the thing sight unseen, but it's probably moot. I never got a response to either of the two emails I sent the guy. I'm sure he was insulted at the offer, in spite of me informing him (politely) that a brand new MM16 can be had for $2,995.

[Van Huskey]

Yeah, I'd never buy the thing sight unseen, but it's probably moot. I never got a response to either of the two emails I sent the guy. I'm sure he was insulted at the offer, in spite of me informing him (politely) that a brand new MM16 can be had for $2,995.

At the price it may sit for a while. I would watch it and contact him next time with a different email address, in case he was truely offended... I would be surprised if it went for over 2k.

[Ira Matheny]

WOW, so my Yates American 36" BS @ $100 was a theft! Really, I did not use a gun, any intimidation, or a bandana. He set the price.
[yes, it is 3 phase, but not a problem for me]

[Glen Blanchard]

Okay guys, I could use some of your sage advice. I finally made contact with the seller and had a nice phone conversation with him this afternoon. I asked him if he would entertain an offer of $1500 and he said that his best price would be $2100. He says it is in "immaculate" condition and comes with a few blades (although none of them are carbide ..... dang). He understands the 50% used rule of thumb but this bandsaw is in incredible condition, was rarely used, and after all, it's an Italian brand! A new one will cost $2995 plus (I assume) shipping. However, I would have to pay to get his used one delivered to me. The shipping cost vs moving cost might be a wash. So the question becomes do I pay $900 more to get a brand new one with warranty. I need some input as I am on the fence.

He sent some photos (below).

The third option I am considering is a Grizzly G0514X2B 19" 3 HP Extreme-Series® Bandsaw with Motor Brake for $1694 (which includes shipping).



Thanks.

[Jim Andrew]

It's hard to appreciate a Mini Max until you've operated one. Might be worth the trip to try it out.

[David Kumm]

Glen the price is on the high end and I would buy the Y30 snowflake on WW BUT ask yourself what you would realistically pay. If $1700, then ask yourself if a300-400 upcharge is worth it vs potentially buying new. You can not overpay for the right machine and the best price is too much if you buy the wrong one. I would not pass on a pristine overpriced used machine if it is the one i really wanted. You need to decide if the MM16 is the machine you will keep for a lifetime. That really is a pristeen saw. Dave

[Randy Hock]

Second the notion that a quality tool is hard to appreciate until you use it. I bought a MiniMax a few years back. I go out of my way to use it. I thought I would forego upgrading my table saw because this "Italian Stallion" can almost do it all. It is a sweet tool. It is worth more than a quality tool made in Asia. I own some of those tools as well.
You would be very happy with a MiniMax.

[Brian Weick]

That is to high,........IMO....if your serious about getting the best bang for your buck...you may want to consider 3ph cast iron machinery......



You could get yourself a 1940 Yates snowflake, 30" in imaculant condition, with adjustable rip fence - rare I might add for $2300.00

There is one for sale ..just found it tonight..,,,,


The difference between the saws are like night & day.....IMO...not that what your looking at is not a good band saw, it is , but in it's own class....that's all I am saying...

You may want to look into Older Amercan made WW machinery. It depends on where it's going if you should be so inclined...if its being planted in your basement, it would be very difficult getting 1600lbs in a basement, possible if you disassemble the entire saw and then re-assemble it back in the basement....

I have seen this size saw and bigger in basements.....

One member I know has his shop and is on the second floor of a building, with no elevator-he has a 10 ton swing out crane in the stairway to bring his machinery up. Took an Oliver 16" jointer up, recently a 36" band saw...waiting to see what's next.......LOL

But he makes it work...

Anyway,
Something for you to chew on,.......:)


B,

[Van Huskey]

I am seriously on the fence with this one. The paying to get it moved is what is really blunting my enthusiasm. That said given the mobile base and how nice it looks I might well take a look. In the end a MM16 is really what you want then I would probably do it, if the MM16 is just one of those saws that you would be fine with and just happen to pop up then maybe hold off, something better WILL show up it is just a matter of how long. It appears since you will have to move it the "discount" is about $1,000 all told just go with your gut on this and don't try to over think it. If you do decide to pass due to price I would call and tell him X amount is all you can scarpe together and if he changes his mind to call you, there aren't going to be a lot of buyers at that price, you almost have to be ready to pull the trigger on a new one since it ain't gonna be an impulse buy because it was such a deal.

[Rick Fisher]

I tend to look at this a bit different.

Go have a look .. if the saw is as sweet as it sounds, and you are going to use it lots.. Buy it and get on with it .. lol

My old SCM Bandsaw is an 1987 .. If it where a 1983 or a 1991, I would not care.. End of the day, its what you do with the saw that matters.

The MM-16 is a fantastic saw.. I would not go with a bigger Grizzly for less money in this case..

Your not going to re-sell.. I assume ? Buy it and make lots of dust, be happy that you have a world class bandsaw.. you would not regret buying one for full price, this is a nice bonus.

[Jim Matthews]

It doesn't make dollars and sense.

The shipping cost will be MUCH higher than you anticipate, as a lift truck will be necessary.
I purchased my MM20 from it's first owner in Charleston, SC.

Shipping costs included collecting the saw, securing it to a pallet, pallet materials, shipping to my door, fuel surcharge and a lift gate fee.
After it was all said and done, it would have been the same cost to purchase one new from Minimax.

Contact a local piano mover to see if they can handle the job. These guys know how to wrangle heavy iron.
Ask for their door-to-door price. That's likely what it will cost with multiple carriers, too.

I recommend you call Minimax and other high-end vendors and see if they can approximate this deal.
If you're ready to buy, you might get a new, or blemished unit for about the same money - with the seller on the hook for insurance.

With this saw, it's your problem the moment you pay the man.

229973

[Glen Blanchard]

Well I can't say that I have always lusted after a Minimax, but the bandsaw is one of the stationary tools I want to upgrade sometime and I WANT to be happy with the purchase. I don't want to feel a need to upgrade in the future. The others upgrades on my list include bench top spindle sander --> floor standing spindle sander, stationary belt/disc sander --> oscillating edge sander and acquiring/building a smallish hand tool workbench ("smallish, as I am running out of room). I have seen the extreme enthusiasm here for the MM16 and other Minimax products, so the CL listing caught my eye. (However, it seems most folks love their Grizzly bandsaws as well). Now I seem to be geared up to make a bandsaw purchase of some kind.

I already have 2 bandsaws - a 14" JET I use exclusively for scroll work and a 16" JET that I use for resawing and ripping. My plans are to replace the 16" as I would think the 14" is better suited to scroll work (cool blocks vs. European guides for the narrow blades). Am I wrong here? Should I keep the 16" for scroll work instead?

Today I will be determining shipping/moving charges and factoring those into my decision.

Anyway, this is what has led me to this point. I think I may soon pull the trigger on.........something.

I appreciate all the comments/feedback an awful lot!!

[Rich Riddle]

There is no way I would entertain paying that for a used tool. I recently had to make a similar decision with a seller who wanted $500 less for a 5 year-old tool than the brand new tool cost. I was going to either pay $700 shipping to the manufacturer, or have to drive 500 miles to pick up a used tool or 600 miles to pick up a brand new tool. Used is used. I found out long ago that the seller of a used car is just as likely to lie about its condition as a used car salesman. He'd have to come down below $1800 to make it worth your time. In my opinion your first offer was fair to both parties considering all the other expenses you will incur. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[David Kumm]

Whatever you decide is fine but don't equate a Grizzly with a MM. MM are the top of the food chain in steel saws and I will take a used MM- particularly the 20 or 24 over most any saw. Used might be used but it really depends on what you are starting out with. My oliver 217 is vintage 1936 and will blow out any new saw made. For scroll work keep the best saw. I use a Y20 for scroll work so a 16" isn't too big provided it works well. I conside the older Laguna ACM LT18 to be the perfect scroll saw. Dave

[Paul McGaha]

I think in this case, after the expense of moving the tool, it's going to come down to just a few hundered dollars between new and used pricing.

I'd do a new one. There is not enough of a savings here to buy this tool.

Just my $.02.

PHM

[Glen Blanchard]

After some homework and a few phone calls, I can get a $300 discount on a new MM16. Following is a cost comparison of a new MM16 vs this used one......

NEW
MSRP - 2995
Discount - <300>
Sales Tax - 222
Lift Gate Shipping - 247
Total - 3164

USED
Price - 2100
Delivery - 300
Total - 2400


The difference would be 764 and I don't think that's enough to persuade me to buy used. While talking to the MM rep, I was able to confirm that this MM16 was purchased in 2005, making it 7 years old (but after the latest change in that model). He also told me that based on its age, it was probably purchased for approx. 1800.

[Jim Matthews]

There's your dollars and sense.

Now you know what the original buyer paid.
Where was the $300 shipping computation made? That's a smokin' deal for shipping costs.

I think you have about $300 to shave off the seller, otherwise you're still paying more than the saw is worth.
(You're certainly saving off new, but bandsaws don't appreciate in value - unless Van Huskey owns it, that is.)

If you've got cash in your hand, your negotiating position is stronger.

[Glen Blanchard]

Where was the $300 shipping computation made? That's a smokin' deal for shipping costs.


The $247 shipping estimate for lift gate service came from the MM rep. The $300 estimate to move the used one across town is from a piano moving company. Interestingly, most of the moving companies I spoke with today lost interest when they found out it had to be carried down a flight of stairs (at the seller's location).

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

I think you have about $300 to shave off the seller,

Jim, you're too kind. MM said seller paid $1800 seven years ago. Shaving $300, he gets his purchase price back on an out-of-warranty, outdated MM16! Good deal for the seller (oh, and I've got a CU300, only 4 years old that you may be interested in ... :))

[Glen Blanchard]

Since the seller and I have spoken a few times and we talked about my going out to look at the saw, as a courtesy, I called him a few minutes ago to let him know that his saw is a little out of my price range. He has my phone numbers if he reconsiders his pricing, but I don't see that happening. He could get me to bite at about $1500 give or take.

Thanks everyone for helping me to sort this out!!

[David Kumm]

While the price is a little high what the seller originally paid is irrelevant. After you saw the first board on a new saw they will be exactly the same. A saw you can examine yourself, help or at least supervise and control the move, and still be 700 or more ahead is still like finding money on the street. I will always pay more for something I can verify than for something on faith. You are unlikely to find many machines across town so you will either pay more for new or buy a lesser saw for the same cash. I move 2000-3000 lb machines around enough to know a 700 lb saw isn't that scary even if stairs are involved. Dave

[Glen Blanchard]

While the price is a little high what the seller originally paid is irrelevant. After you saw the first board on a new saw they will be exactly the same. A saw you can examine yourself, help or at least supervise and control the move, and still be 700 or more ahead is still like finding money on the street. I will always pay more for something I can verify than for something on faith. You are unlikely to find many machines across town so you will either pay more for new or buy a lesser saw for the same cash. I move 2000-3000 lb machines around enough to know a 700 lb saw isn't that scary even if stairs are involved. Dave

I understand your logic, Dave, and your points are well taken. One of the big considerations for me is the fact that once my movers pick that thing up from its current resting spot, it's mine. If they damage it on the way down the stairs, it's mine. If they damage it in transit, it's mine. I have no recourse for any damages. This is of course true for any used purchase, but in my mind, the cost difference needs to be great enough to justify the risk. In my eyes, this is not. It also has no warranty (probably will never be a factor, but this must be considered). Ignoring the shipping/moving expenses and the sales tax from the equation for the moment, a brand new saw would be only $600 more.

[David Kumm]

I hear you Glen but if it is across town and I can be there for the loading and unloading and still save money I'll do it even if it makes me liable. There are no winners if there are shipping problems regardless who is responsible. There are many instances where the buyer accepts some repairable damage rather than going through the replacement process. Even only loading and unloading once is a benefit as you have no idea how many times and in how many terminals your machine will be moved around. Now I have been accused of control freakishness. Dave

[Van Huskey]

It is honestly a shame you now know the original price as it puts a dark cloud on the situation. I am certainly not trying to persuade you to buy it (as I do think it is a bit high) I don't think that selling price is accurate. The "going price", meaning discounted street price for a MM16 at the beginning of 2004 was $1700 BUT that was still the 12.5" resaw with the 3.6hp motor, the very end of production for that iteration. Later in 2004 they moved to the 14" resaw with the current 4.8hp motor and shortly after that they moved to the current 16"/4.8hp motor. I would verify that it is not the tweener 14" resaw model but if it is the current model he didn't get it for $1700 even in 2005. I could track down the going price in that era for the current model and I am happy to try BUT only if you actually care, in other words I ain't doin' it just to satisfy my curiosity!

Edit #1 Did some digging, I can't help it... The current 16" resaw MM16 first landed on our shores in March of 2005.

Edit #2 OK OK I lied, I apparently WILL do it just for my curiosity Fall 2005 list price for the 16"/4.8hp MM16 was $2,395

Edit #3 OK, yes I am OCD and yes I admit to having things filed away from AWFS in Vegas from 2005... don't judge me, you don't know me... Show sale price on their flyer for the new improved world beatin' (my words) MM16 was $2,095 it doesn't list any extras but they did tend to throw in the mobility kit BUT I don't know if they did at the "show special" and I don't know how long they carried that price for.

Edit #4 I got all excited seeing all the old literature and started going through the bag of goodies, when I reached the bottom there were tons of business cards and while going through them I found a MM card with my note that read they would include the mobility kit and three blades with the sale price on their bandsaws so that would have been $2095 plus freight for the MM16, 3 blades and the mobility kit at least at the time of the AWFS, the flyer did say you did not have to attend the show but order by the end of the show, whether that was hard and fast I don't know. In the end I think a good guess if he bought the saw in late 2005 or early 2006 it was a 16" resaw machine and he probably paid $2,400 - $2,500 shipped to his house PLUS sales tax since MM had a business nexus there at the time.

[mreza Salav]

LOL! Van, really you are the god of Bandsaws.
Perhaps we should rename them to Vansaws :D

To the original poster: Look at it this way. Assuming the saw is in near new condition what would you do in the following situation:

If the saw is priced at $2400 new at a dealer but with no warranty (essentially the same as you see it now) would be willing to pay
an extra $700 to buy warranty on that or will you pay only $2400 to the dealer with no warranty?

Forgot to say: I'd probably do the moving myself if it was me.

[steve moser]

Im seeing a lot of numbers being tossed out as to the cost of the MM16 new. I just took delivery of a new one in feb. (By the way they have changed their model numbering system) It was at the sale price of $2,595. It included two cheap blades and the mobile base. I paid $200 to have it shipped to my place of employment. So total of $2,795.

[Van Huskey]

Im seeing a lot of numbers being tossed out as to the cost of the MM16 new. I just took delivery of a new one in feb. (By the way they have changed their model numbering system) It was at the sale price of $2,595. It included two cheap blades and the mobile base. I paid $200 to have it shipped to my place of employment. So total of $2,795.

Thats a hundred better than they are offering Glen now (they tend to go up and down on the discount) and he gets stuck with sales tax and residential liftgate delivery.

[Mike Archambeau]

Okay guys, I could use some of your sage advice. I finally made contact with the seller and had a nice phone conversation with him this afternoon. I asked him if he would entertain an offer of $1500 and he said that his best price would be $2100. He says it is in "immaculate" condition and comes with a few blades (although none of them are carbide ..... dang). He understands the 50% used rule of thumb but this bandsaw is in incredible condition, was rarely used, and after all, it's an Italian brand! A new one will cost $2995 plus (I assume) shipping. However, I would have to pay to get his used one delivered to me. The shipping cost vs moving cost might be a wash. So the question becomes do I pay $900 more to get a brand new one with warranty. I need some input as I am on the fence.

He sent some photos (below).

The third option I am considering is a Grizzly G0514X2B 19" 3 HP Extreme-Series® Bandsaw with Motor Brake for $1694 (which includes shipping).



Thanks.

When I found the MM16 that I ended up purchasing, I moved it myself. I rented an enclosed Uhaul trailer, used some ratcheting straps, and some moving blankets. The owner and his brother helped me load the trailer. The saw went into the trailer on its spine (this is how they are shipped from the factory). The mobile base helps with the loading since is rolls even when the saw is laying down. I strapped the saw in very securely and drove the 3 hours from Hershey PA to my home in CT. I built a ramp to roll the saw out of the trailer. And another ramp allowed me to roll the saw down a half flight of stairs from my garage into my basement workshop. I used my small tractor to hold back the weight of the saw as gravity helped it roll down the ramp into my basement. Once it was downstairs, I used a come-along to stand it up.


The MM16 is a FANTASTIC saw. Paid $1800 for mine and it is one of my favorite tools. I am sure that the previous owner was sorry to see the saw go, but he was relocating from PA to Montana, and he was selling his tools rather than moving them that distance. If you are able bodied, have the means to tow a small trailer, and can line up some strong backs to help you load the trailer, you may be able to move it yourself.


btw.....mine came with a Lennox tri-master carbide tipped blade which is a very nice blade.

Good luck!

[Glen Blanchard]

Update: Looking over today's CL ads, I saw that this saw has been reduced from the original $2495 to $2295. I texted the seller and asked him if he would be willing to reduce the price he offered me ($2100) by the same $200. He returned the text stating that he would sell it and deliver it to me for $2150. As delivery was going to run me a good $250 - $300, that sounds like a fair deal. I replied by telling him that it sounds good to me, but that I'd like to see the saw. Unless something changes, I should be inspecting it in the next 24 hours or so.

I will confirm that it is 4.8 HP and has a full 16" of resaw. Anything else I should look for?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I would check the condition of the tires and want to see it run. If the guides are set properly, they shouldn't be touching or spinning as the blade is moving. The machine should be fairly quiet.

I have a 5 year old or so 4.8HP MM-16 and it is one of my favorite tools. I don't use it as much as my table saw but I have no regrets buying it. I am sure my 2 sons will argue who gets it after my demise.

[Van Huskey]

Sounds like you are in a much better place RE money, I wouldn't want to move a bandsaw like that down stairs either! All flat would be a different story.

See the saw under power and it should be "calm" no excitement and no vibration. The tires are probably in pretty good shape but take a look, the good thing about MM tires is they snap on and are realtively cheap compared to say the vucanized rubber Agazzani's which although they last longer pretty much need to be sent out to refurbish. When you look at the saw bring a tape and make sure it is 16", it should be but make sure, it will probably be about 15 3/4" below the guides just make sure it isn't under 14", in the excitement you could mis-judge that and he may not be lying just taking the current specs, double check the motor plate says 4.8hp also, I am sure it is since only the ~12" resaw MM16 came with less.

Now I am more comfortable with the deal as clean as it looks I would buy it for the savings you are looking at.

[Rick Potter]

3 years later....................what happened? Don't leave me hanging. Did he get it?