Hock vs. LN vs. STW irons.

[Chris Thompson]

I need to get some replacement irons for a few of my rehab victims. At least a #8, #7, #6, two #5's and two #4s. (Though, no, I won't be buying all those at once, but as the "discretionary cash" comes available. And by "Discretionary Cash" I mean, what I can get away with without the wife noticing.)

I know people have had great results from Hock and LN replacement blades, and I've read positive things about Spehar as well.

So, is there any difference? The Spehar blades are $10+ cheaper per iron, which, based on needing about 8 of them, means I'd "get two for free" vs. the extra cost of Hock and LN. They're all A2 Cryo, they're all about the same thickness. The Spehar and, I believe, the LN are face ground to give that nice, bright shiny look, whereas only a portion of the Hock blades are ground. (I realize this does not affect the usability, but I'm always swayed by bright and shiny :))

Who's got experience with any of these?

[John Dingman]

I purchased a plane from a fellow Forum Member and it came set up with an LN Blade (.115) and a Clifton 2-piece Chipbreaker. It is in my estimation the best set up that I have ever used. I have tried quite a few combinations looking for the "Right One." I have not had an opportunity to try the Spehar, but I have tried the Hock Blade and Chipbreaker, and I prefer the LN and the Clifton combination over them. Here is a pic of the plane just for Tyler :D


http://www.johnswoodshop.us/Images/Frigator%20No.%208.jpg

John

[Gene Collison]

I need to get some replacement irons for a few of my rehab victims. At least a #8, #7, #6, two #5's and two #4s. (Though, no, I won't be buying all those at once, but as the "discretionary cash" comes available. And by "Discretionary Cash" I mean, what I can get away with without the wife noticing.)

I know people have had great results from Hock and LN replacement blades, and I've read positive things about Spehar as well.

So, is there any difference? The Spehar blades are $10+ cheaper per iron, which, based on needing about 8 of them, means I'd "get two for free" vs. the extra cost of Hock and LN. They're all A2 Cryo, they're all about the same thickness. The Spehar and, I believe, the LN are face ground to give that nice, bright shiny look, whereas only a portion of the Hock blades are ground. (I realize this does not affect the usability, but I'm always swayed by bright and shiny :))

Who's got experience with any of these?

Chris,

The bright and shiny comes from heat treatment in a vacuum oven. The bright and shiny will be better for the that reason alone. It means that the iron survived heat treatment without any decarb (carbon loss). Go for the shiny ones!

Gene

[Wendell Wilkerson]

Lee Valley also sells replacements irons. They are A2 but not cryo'd. I believe they are about the same price as the Hock O1 iron which makes them $7-$10 cheaper than the Hock and LN A2 irons. I have some but have not used them enough to say they are better than anything else. They are well finished and just keep a final honing before they are ready to use. I bought the LV irons based on price plus I knew they would stand behind their products.

Wendell

[Don Kugelberg]

Chris,

I have used all three and see very little difference. My irons, for that reason, are purchased from STW.

[Steve Cox]

Personally, I like the Hock carbon steel irons (not A2). Maybe I'm just a traditionalist.

[Chris Thompson]

John, This is the first time I've seen the clifton two piece. Since I was planning on replacing the chipbreaker as well, what is the advantage of the two piece over a standard style? I can only find blurry pictures of the clifton at places that sell them.

Gene, Ron Hock claims the shiny comes from face grinding by the job shop that now makes a portion of his irons. The ones that come out of his shop are not, and retain the oxide coating. I'd wager that you're both right. So, shiny is good.

And yes, I realize that I'll need photos of fluffy shavings soon.

[John Dingman]

Here is what an article says about them. I only add it because it probably explains it better than I could:

Snip


A basic method for making a good hand plane work even better is to use a thicker blade and cap iron. These cap irons by Clifton are based on the old Record "Stay-Set" cap iron design. The back of the cap iron screws to the blade like a regular cap iron (screw not included), but the front piece is a heavy chunk of steel that hooks on the back and really adds a mass of metal to the blade. The end result is like the heavy cap irons that are found on infill planes. When you need to hone the blade, you just lift off the front part, sharpen it and replace it with no loss of adjustment and no fiddling around for a screwdriver.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/ee/big/EE-635XX_big.gif

hth,
John

[Chris Thompson]

John,

OK, that's cool. And only a buck or three more expensive than other replacement cap irons. Excellent.

[Gene Collison]

John, This is the first time I've seen the clifton two piece. Since I was planning on replacing the chipbreaker as well, what is the advantage of the two piece over a standard style? I can only find blurry pictures of the clifton at places that sell them.

Gene, Ron Hock claims the shiny comes from face grinding by the job shop that now makes a portion of his irons. The ones that come out of his shop are not, and retain the oxide coating. I'd wager that you're both right. So, shiny is good.

And yes, I realize that I'll need photos of fluffy shavings soon.

Chris,

Whatever Ron Hock says I am sure he is good for. But standard heat treatment for air hardening is done in a vacuum oven. They come out the same way they went in, no discoloration. I have a Hock iron and it is a good one, stays sharp for a long time so whatever he is doing is right too or I should say his maker because mine comes from France.

Gene

[John Weber]

I've only used LN blades for the most part, both stock in LN planes and as replacements for old Stanleys. I've read people using the new thicker blades in older planes by filing the mouth, but the .095 LN's are very nice. Never heard a bad thing about any though, I would go with a LN, Veritas, or Hock, I've not heard of the other brand (but that doesn't mean much). If the chip breaker is in good order, I think your money will be better spent on the blades.

John

[Derek Cohen]

"what is the advantage of the two piece over a standard style?"

My preference is the one-piece rather than two-piece cap iron. I found that the Clifton set was not particularly well finished. The two piece cap iron is joined by a pin. The two pieces were not flat and rocked. Others have said the same. Plus, when you remove the setup to sharpen the blade, the blasted loose end of the cap iron usually falls off and onto your toe (or worse)!

While the Clifton blade is good, note that it is 1/8" thick.

Stick with the one piece LN or Hock.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Dingman]

"what is the advantage of the two piece over a standard style?"

My preference is the one-piece rather than two-piece cap iron. I found that the Clifton set was not particularly well finished. The two piece cap iron is joined by a pin. The two pieces were not flat and rocked. Others have said the same. Plus, when you remove the setup to sharpen the blade, the blasted loose end of the cap iron usually falls off and onto your toe (or worse)!

While the Clifton blade is good, note that it is 1/8" thick.

Stick with the one piece LN or Hock.

Regards from Perth

DerekDerek,

You make a very good point. The guy I bought the plane from told me that it took him a long time to get it flat. I am enjoying the fruits of his labor :D

John

[James Carmichael]

John,

OK, that's cool. And only a buck or three more expensive than other replacement cap irons. Excellent.


Last I checked, 2 & 2 3/8" Clifton Cap Irons were $12 apiece over at WWS. I bought a couple last year when I got started out with an old #5 and #7. Can't really say how much difference they make, just about all my bench-plane experience is with these two, but I'm satisfied with them.