I need help with the Bowl Gouge

[Brian Kent]

Now that I have a Thompson 1/2" V-shaped Bowl Gouge, I am practicing. Since I started using the gouge I am 0 for 3 on bowls and 0 for 2 on goblets. All became firewood.
I used the wolverine jig and sharpened it on 60 grit white wheel, at the same angle it came.

Each bowl or goblet had a catch and blew apart when it was around 1-1/2" deep.

The first one caught on the inner side.
Since then I have been working on riding the bevel.

The rest have caught when it was too deep to ride the bevel on the bottom.

My 3 completed bowls and 1 completed goblet were made with a spindle gouge and rounded scraper.

Any help is appreciated - from you or from online videos - because right now I am probably just practicing the mistake.

Thanks in advance.

Brian

[Steve Vaughan]

Brian, hang in there, it's gonna get better! I think the issue is gonna be your tool presentation relative to the inside curve. I think when you start at the edge of the bowl, your flute should be turned to the right, nearly 90 degree but not quite. There's others on here that can put it all into words better than me and I'm certain know the right videos to shoot your way. I'm with ya though, cause I'm certain I practice lots of mistakes myself!

[Doug W Swanson]

Bill Grumbine has some good videos out there. You can also look on Youtube as well.....

[Brian Kent]

I just watched one You Tube video and realized that I may be starting with too deep a bowl. I may need to do something with a gentler arc and no steep transition at the bottom corner, letting the tool determine the curve until I get some success with it.

[Mike Cruz]

Brian, it is all about tool presentation. When I get a lot of chatter, I know my tool is too high or too low. You shouldn't be getting catches that blow the blank into firewood. In my opinion, you need someone there watching what you are doing (or not doing) to fix the problem. In m opinion, turning is a really fine line between right and wrong. That said, there a lot of ways to ride the right side of the line, and a lot of way of doing it wrong. I was extremely fortunate to have Tony DeMasi take me under his wing to steer me in the right direction. If there are any Creekers or other turners in your area that could get you on the right track, that would be your best bet. I'm not one of the experienced ones, but I'm sure that if I spent an afternoon with you, you could get past this. Even if it wasn't about me telling you what to do, so much as watching me. It might sink in what you might me doing wrong. If you don't have anyone close to you that will help, Bill Grumbine's basic bowl turning DVD is priceless. Takes you all the way through from a green log to finished bowl. I highly recommend it.

[Mike Cruz]

Kent, one thing that I felt was instrumental was getting the tool rest way into the bowl. Constantly stopping the lathe, and repositioning the tool rest to get it inside so that the tool wasn't hanging way over the rest. The closer the rest is, the fewer catches...IMO.

[Clint Baxter]

I just watched one You Tube video and realized that I may be starting with too deep a bowl. I may need to do something with a gentler arc and no steep transition at the bottom corner, letting the tool determine the curve until I get some success with it.

If you are doing a deep bowl with a sharp transition, the main issue may be with the grind on your Thompson gouge. More likely to need a traditional grind than the fingernail type grind on the Thompson for doing the bottom of the bowl. You're not able to ride the bevel with that fingernail grind because you run into the side of bowl as you try to swing the gouge handle.

Clint

[John Beaver]

Brian,

The San Diego Woodturners club meets in San Marcos. You should check them out - I'm sure they have people who would love to help you out in person. I'm happy to help if you want to drive to L.A.

[Jerry Marcantel]

Brian, that's the same gouge I have, and in my experience, it was a guarantee that I would get a catch whenever I wanted to use it. I'd put it away, and use anouther gouge. Then grow a pair, grab the Thompson, get about one or two passes, then a catch. Put it away for a few days, then try again. That's been over a year since I got it, and am now feeling pretty confident when I use it. Recently, I changed the angle to just around 50 degrees, and I'm not getting the same type of catch. I think it's a thing that I have a lot of bad habits, and the tool can't correct them for me. ............. Jerry (in Tucson)

[Brian Kent]

Brian,

The San Diego Woodturners club meets in San Marcos. You should check them out - I'm sure they have people who would love to help you out in person. I'm happy to help if you want to drive to L.A.

I have gone to 2 of their meetings, including one on grain direction and another with 8 or 9 lathes showing techniques. Most of what I know came from those 2 meetings. I plan on taking advantage of their free mentoring.

And yes, I would love to drive up to L.A. sometime and collect a bit of your artistry and experience!

[Brian Kent]

Just now I tried again, this time letting the tool and its grind determine the sweep of the bowl instead of trying to force my will on the tool. I am very happy with this practice session since the bowl did not blow up.

I did however create my first M&M dispenser.

I may make a pedestal with more padauk and glue it on the bottom.

I really appreciate the words of advice and directions for learning.

Brian

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Brian....that is a good start!

Seriously....find out where John's loaner CDs are and get Bill Grumbine's "Turned Bowls Made Easy" shipped to you......it will teach you things. That is what I used. I had been turning nearly 2 years before I was able to see another turner turn.

[Alan Trout]

Brian,

I know it is easy to say but it is all about practice and getting the mentoring will really help. Don't give up and it will become second nature.

Alan

[Russell Neyman]

From an old pro, who said this years ago: "It's better and safer to take too little with a cut as opposed to too much. Take your time, and listen to what the wood is telling you."

[Mike Campbell KS]

Kent, one thing that I felt was instrumental was getting the tool rest way into the bowl. Constantly stopping the lathe, and repositioning the tool rest to get it inside so that the tool wasn't hanging way over the rest. The closer the rest is, the fewer catches...IMO.

This was probably the most important tip I picked up from one of the first turners I met when I first got my lathe. I had the same problem with catches, and this solved a lot of them. A traditional grind gouge or scraper solved the problem with making the transition with the bottom of the bowl for me.

[Dennis Ford]

You are doing OK, that bowl looks pretty good except for the dispenser opening (it may be too small). The Thompson gouge is a good gouge and it comes with a good grind (for an experienced turner). A more blunt grind will give more consistent results for a beginner IMO. Making the grind more blunt will make the tool less aggressive which should allow you to focus on the process instead of being focused on NOT getting a catch. Once you get some experience, you can gradually change the grind back to the way it came.

[Reed Gray]

You discovered one problem with realizing that more open forms are a lot easier to do than more closed (steep walls) forms are.

Another point, when turning, you will get far fewer catches if the gouge flutes are rolled on the side away from the wood that you are cutting. Having them straight up and down, especially if you hold your tools level rather than dropped handle, makes the wings prone to catching. On the inside, roll the flutes to about 1:30 to 3 o'clock, and on the outside, roll them to 9 to 10:30.

Of course, one can never have too many toys, and I would suggest two gouges for bowl turning. One with a 60 degree bevel, and one with about a 40 to 45 degree bevel. The 60 degree one is for going through the transition, and across the bottom. The 45 degree one will go down the walls. On the outside, either will work.

robo hippy

[Ron Radliff]

If your local club has a mentoring program, take them up on it. That way you can watch how it's done, ask questions, then have the mentor watch you and correct any mistakes on the spot.

[Grant Wilkinson]

I'd second Reed/Robo's advice. Doug grinds his gouges to do a great job on the inner walls, but you need a steeper angle to transition from the wall to the bottom and then to go across the bottom. I found all this out the same way you are - by orbiting bowls. Now, I have a 45° for the inner walls and a 60° to 65° traditional grind for the transition and bottom. It's easy to keep bevel support with the steeper grind.

[Jeff Myroup]

Brian,

Along with everything that has been said about tool presentation, I think you need to work on shallower forms. Once my beginners have some basic tool control, I start them on plates and then move deeper. Practice on some shallow bowls with gentle sweeping curves. It will also help if you can find a mentor in your club to help you along. Good luck and keep practicing. Remember, you don't always need to create something.

[Ron Radliff]

Here's a video about completing a roughed out bowl. He shows proper tool presentation along with cutouts of the bowl to show the transition zone and also a large mock up of a gouge tip. Maybe something in there will help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty5e9z0jBGE&feature=uploademail

[Prashun Patel]

I just watched one You Tube video and realized that I may be starting with too deep a bowl. I may need to do something with a gentler arc and no steep transition at the bottom corner, letting the tool determine the curve until I get some success with it.
Bingo. This was a very big aha moment for me. Think shallow platters at first.

[Brian Kent]

Another successful practice session tonight. I knew this one (sycamore firewood) would self destruct because the wood has lots of cracks. So I just saw how far I could take it before it blew.

I practiced shallow sweeping with as little wood removed as possible with each pass. I ended up not blowing the bowl. I'll add some shellac to help hold it together - it is not good enough for an epoxy treatment - and set it out for nuts like me.