Heavy Duty, Indestructable, Non-Bending, Router Table

[Michael W. Clark]

I'm looking for some advice on building a heavy duty router table. I would appreciate any ideas whether they are real experience or "want-to's".

I have been thinking about the following:

1. Top construction - I've read the articles about using ply and mdf faced with laminate and I may eventually go that route, but has anyone considered a 1/2" or 3/8" thick steel top? This would allow me to use magnetic jigs, fingerboards, and even a magnetic fence if I wanted. I would like to mount a router lift directly to the top, without a router plate. I could get the opening machined, then make some steel or hardwood inserts. I want to minimize the ridges and grooves on the top. On my current router table, these always cause me a problem at the worst time.

2. Fence Construction and clamping - I would like to incorporate DC into the fence and clamp it without using slots in the top or T-tracks in a wood top. Maybe it could be clamped from the sides of the table or maybe the mag jigs would work? If using steel for the top, I would likely put an edging under the top and/or around the sides, but could incorporate the fence clamp as necessary.

3. Dust collection underneath the table - I plan to run a 4" duct into the cabinet, but has anyone got any ideas on a hood around the router or is just a 4" duct in the compartment sufficient?

I've seen the Bench Dog Cast Iron top and I like it, but don't like the price. I can get the steel fairly cheap and use some of that money toward machining the opening and inserts.

Any thoughts, comments, or pictures are very much appreciated.

Mike

[Mike Heidrick]

Do you want to try router bits in a shaper?

[Michael W. Clark]

I've heard mixed things about router bits in a shaper. Isn't the speed lower and does that hinder the use of smaller bits? If not, a shaper may be an option.

By the time I buy a router and lift, probably approaching a shaper. I have a PC 890 I would like to use until I upgrade to a larger router or add a shaper.

[Peter Quinn]

Will the steel be flat enough? I'm not sure that your basic cold rolled steel that is cheap s going to be as flat as a machined cast iron top. And by the time you brace it or weld supports, it seems like quite an investment in time and money for a machine that can only spin a 1/2" cutter? I made a router table a while back out of cheap melamine chip board, put some poplar bracing below, more than flat enough for wood working IMO. I've never been much into the "ultimate router table" quest, and I question the very notion that the table has to be perfectly flat anyway. The wood passing over my router table is rarely perfectly flat, neither is the router table frankly. Luckily with enough down pressure wood bends. Now mind you I'd not be thrilled if my router table were a smily face, but you won't catch me getting out the machinist straight edge and feeler gauges for that one. Just not necessary.

I saw an old photo of Art Espenet Carpenter's shop where he had a router shoved into a piece of plywood over a 50 gallon barrel. The barrel was both router stand and chip collector. The tool looked crude, but his work was fantastic. I have seen some pretty good work come from some pretty basic router tables.

[Michael W. Clark]

Peter, I agree with you that absolute flatness is not necessary. I have problems with the router plate in my table not being flush at each end, then hanging on the work piece. I have leveling screws, but can't keep all corners flush for some reason.:confused: I'm wanting something that is more tank-like than ultimate precise. I believe you can get the precision you need through test cuts, then as long as the fence position and router height lock solidly, you are good to go, at least for my standards. I hear what you are saying about the plywood and barrel. To each his own, and he probably makes better projects than I do. However, I do enjoy using solid, and quality machines, just my preference, doesn't mean its right.

I like the thought of a shaper table, but am concerned about not being able to run smaller bits at higher RPMs. I have mostly 1/2" shank bits, and I see there is an adapter for them with the shaper. What if I want to run a 1/4" spiral bit, will 10,000 RPM be too slow, or do I just need to slow the feed rate? I guess I'm not familiar with the trade-offs. I'll do some searching on here to see what I can find. If anyone has a particular thread they would recommend, please let me know.

Mike

[Carl Beckett]

I've had some funky router table setuos over the years. One of the firsts was a piece of pegboard bolted to a router and some aluminum channel as a fence. Jointed boards for panel glue up on it, and made a dang fine desk. Now I have a fancy homebuilt version. It's great also

If you are anywhere close Mike, I have a sears cast iron 'shaper' table top I would part with. It originally ran on a motor with a belt/pulley. Am wondering if you couldn't just change the pulley diameters and end up with router speeds. ( would need to evaluate if the bearings could take the speed increase)

I like the idea of building what you want. I'm not sure about steel sheet material though.....

You know, some tablesaws have a granite top..... That might be an interesting design idea. ( could get the kitchen guys to machine it for you )...

[Michael W. Clark]

Thanks Carl, I have thought about Granite. You can get off-cuts and they can machine it. I just had one done for a bath vanity for about $150 with back splashes and rounded edges. That's an option, just have to figure out a fence clamping mechanism, maybe on the sides of the table?

Thanks for the offer on the shaper top.

Mike

[Mark Ashmeade]

I'm looking for some advice on building a heavy duty router table. I would appreciate any ideas whether they are real experience or "want-to's".

I have been thinking about the following:

1. Top construction - I've read the articles about using ply and mdf faced with laminate and I may eventually go that route, but has anyone considered a 1/2" or 3/8" thick steel top? This would allow me to use magnetic jigs, fingerboards, and even a magnetic fence if I wanted. I would like to mount a router lift directly to the top, without a router plate. I could get the opening machined, then make some steel or hardwood inserts. I want to minimize the ridges and grooves on the top. On my current router table, these always cause me a problem at the worst time.

2. Fence Construction and clamping - I would like to incorporate DC into the fence and clamp it without using slots in the top or T-tracks in a wood top. Maybe it could be clamped from the sides of the table or maybe the mag jigs would work? If using steel for the top, I would likely put an edging under the top and/or around the sides, but could incorporate the fence clamp as necessary.

3. Dust collection underneath the table - I plan to run a 4" duct into the cabinet, but has anyone got any ideas on a hood around the router or is just a 4" duct in the compartment sufficient?

I've seen the Bench Dog Cast Iron top and I like it, but don't like the price. I can get the steel fairly cheap and use some of that money toward machining the opening and inserts.

Any thoughts, comments, or pictures are very much appreciated.

Mike

I got one of these. It very definitely has an indestructible, non-bending top. Cost $350. 7.5 HP motor included. I should be OK for a while with it.

228277

[Mike Heidrick]

Mark are you just using it as a shaper? Or do you have plans for router bits like Mike the OP mentioned?

[Jerome Hanby]

If you liked the cast iron Bench Dog tops, check out Peachtree. When I was looking, their's were less expensive and their shipping was solely based on price, not weight. Not sure if that's still the case, at the time I thought it was insane, but I was told that on the phone (I was calling to figure out how to get to their brick and mortar shop because I just knew the shipping would be astronomical). I ended up going with a standalone table (forgot to mention, the one I was looking at was for a table saw), but still have plane to get one for my Unisaw/Incra TS III setup when I get around to refurbishing the Unisaw.


I'm looking for some advice on building a heavy duty router table. I would appreciate any ideas whether they are real experience or "want-to's".

I have been thinking about the following:

1. Top construction - I've read the articles about using ply and mdf faced with laminate and I may eventually go that route, but has anyone considered a 1/2" or 3/8" thick steel top? This would allow me to use magnetic jigs, fingerboards, and even a magnetic fence if I wanted. I would like to mount a router lift directly to the top, without a router plate. I could get the opening machined, then make some steel or hardwood inserts. I want to minimize the ridges and grooves on the top. On my current router table, these always cause me a problem at the worst time.

2. Fence Construction and clamping - I would like to incorporate DC into the fence and clamp it without using slots in the top or T-tracks in a wood top. Maybe it could be clamped from the sides of the table or maybe the mag jigs would work? If using steel for the top, I would likely put an edging under the top and/or around the sides, but could incorporate the fence clamp as necessary.

3. Dust collection underneath the table - I plan to run a 4" duct into the cabinet, but has anyone got any ideas on a hood around the router or is just a 4" duct in the compartment sufficient?

I've seen the Bench Dog Cast Iron top and I like it, but don't like the price. I can get the steel fairly cheap and use some of that money toward machining the opening and inserts.

Any thoughts, comments, or pictures are very much appreciated.

Mike

[Ernie Miller]

Take a look at Episode 5 (http://www.finewoodworking.com/subscription/router-table-video/) of this series. The fence clamping system may work for you.

[Brian Kincaid]

Folks who don't need a flat router table: Do you use tongue in groove joinery? Do you make panel doors? Joinery?

-Brian

[Michael W. Clark]

Folks who don't need a flat router table: Do you use tongue in groove joinery? Do you make panel doors? Joinery?

-Brian

Brian, I use my table for joinery and panel doors. I do try for a flat table, but I don't obsess about the flatness from end to end. I suppose the router plate takes care of this in the vicinity of the bit since it is flat. If I have a few small gaps where I can see light under a straightedge, that is not a deal breaker for me. However, if I spend $500 on a table advertised as flat within a certain range, then I would expect the product to be as advertised.

I think if you put two 3/4" plywood panels together, there is going to be some "unflatness" to them as compared to a metal top that has been surface ground flat, maybe I'm wrong. I think the key is that the relationship between the wood and the bit be repeatable from pass to pass, both in plan view and elevation. This is one reason why I don't like the plastic insert on my router plate. I think it bends when you put significant downward pressure on the wood, especially at the beginning and end of the cuts. I also want a fence that clamps solidly. (Ernie, I don't have a password, any way you can describe the article or print and send it to me?)

I wish Bench Dog still made the steel inserts. I guess the plastic ones are in there to increase profit margin, and make up for increased costs while keeping the price the same. This is fine, just wish the steel ones were an option.

[Brian Kincaid]

Brian, I use my table for joinery and panel doors. I do try for a flat table, but I don't obsess about the flatness from end to end.

Michael, that makes sense. If you use hold-downs around the plate you should get pretty good repeatability. I opted to install my lift on a machined table (made by Quality Grinding a few years back).
-Brian

[Andrew Pitonyak]

1. Top construction - I've read the articles about using ply and mdf faced with laminate and I may eventually go that route, but has anyone considered a 1/2" or 3/8" thick steel top? This would allow me to use magnetic jigs, fingerboards, and even a magnetic fence if I wanted. I would like to mount a router lift directly to the top, without a router plate. I could get the opening machined, then make some steel or hardwood inserts. I want to minimize the ridges and grooves on the top. On my current router table, these always cause me a problem at the worst time.



I used 1" MDF and I laminated the top and bottom. I then built a support structure underneath out of oak to keep it flat. I see the apeal of steel, because then I could use say my magnetic featherboard. Of course, I would also need to worry about rust...




2. Fence Construction and clamping - I would like to incorporate DC into the fence and clamp it without using slots in the top or T-tracks in a wood top. Maybe it could be clamped from the sides of the table or maybe the mag jigs would work? If using steel for the top, I would likely put an edging under the top and/or around the sides, but could incorporate the fence clamp as necessary.



I just sold an Oak park router table that had no tracks and you simply clamped the fence to the table. My router table is attached to my table saw (well, I sold my table saw, and I have not yet brought my new SawStop into the basement) and I use the saw fence as a backstop for my fence sometimes.


For the Oak Park router table, the expectation was that the fence would clamp directly to the table. I had a box joint jig that used screws, but it set down over the bit, and there was no place for clamps.


In general, there is not much need to keep the fence parallel to anything else when routing.... Unless you have a jig that runs in a T-Track, then you really need to stay parallel to that.


I built my router fence out of plywood and I attach dust collection to the end, so there is a channel to pull the dust along the fence and then out the side. It is easier for me to route a hose off the side of the table, than off the back of the table. I can then use the other half of the fence to store a few wrenches or such if I like.


My plan is to add a track to the table, I have simply not done it yet because I have not had the need.




3. Dust collection underneath the table - I plan to run a 4" duct into the cabinet, but has anyone got any ideas on a hood around the router or is just a 4" duct in the compartment sufficient?



I built a plywood cabinet around the router lift and added a simple door to the front. Just be careful about where you will place the "dust hole". I placed this in the bottom so that the dust would mostly fall into it, but I do still have dust that builds up in the corners. This does pull a lot of dust down into the case with no problems, but, I still use the dust collection off the fence...




I've seen the Bench Dog Cast Iron top and I like it, but don't like the price. I can get the steel fairly cheap and use some of that money toward machining the opening and inserts.



If you do not plan on using a plate, I am interested (curiousity) as to how you will engineer your plates. Seems like a difficult problem. If you plan on using a router lift, would you build that yourself, or can you purchase one that will attach to an existing table bottom without a plate? This is one reason that I would consider forgoing a direct attachement.


I assume that even out of steel (depending on the steel) that you may still want some sort of support structure underneath to keep it flat.

[Jeff Duncan]

It sounds like your really wanting to move up to a shaper, but just haven't realized it yet. Sure you can spend a lot of money tricking out a router table....but at the end of the day it's still a router mounted in that table....kinda like fabricating a super fancy table to hold your circular saw upside down to use it for a table saw, instead of just buying a table saw?

Shapers can run router bits, but they do better with the larger diameter bits than the smaller ones. I would never recommend using 1/4" shank bits in a shaper, personally I don't even like them in a router except for the really small profiles that can be handled on a trim router. Shapers are at their best with shaper cutters which will outperform a router all day long. It's just a questions of whether you personally need a shaper or not?

My recommendation is to use a thick piece of ply or mdf or whatever and make up a top yourself with the laminate surface. Getting it flat is not a big deal, nor is machining it yourself for whatever insert you want. If you take your time and do it right you should not even need any adjusting screws, nor should you have a problem with material hang in up. Even if you don't get it exact you can shim it to a perfect fit fairly easily. I started out making doors and everything else on a router table and my version is probably the worst you would see on this site! It's not the quality of the table and how much you spend machining custom steel etc. etc., it's about having it set up correctly and knowing how to use it;)


BTW, I think plastic or aluminum inserts are the way to go in case of an oops moment! A router bit spinning at 22k rpm hitting steel is not going to be pretty:eek:

good luck,
JeffD

[pat warner]

"Fence Construction and clamping "

Fence here (http://patwarner.com/images/rtf_opener.jpg) tethered to table through slots, with clamp screws into tee nuts.
Could be into tapped holes in steel or Aluminum.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Mark are you just using it as a shaper? Or do you have plans for router bits like Mike the OP mentioned?

Actually I'm just going to use it as a router table. I have the collets for it. What I don't have is the shaper extension spindle. Haven't got the beast set up yet, but the table is HUGE at almost 48" square. Lots of tapped holes in it too for fences, hold downs and the like. If I get the spindle extension, I'll look at a power feeder. Not there yet though.

[ian maybury]

There's probably several objections to steel Michael: (1) rapid rusting, (2) what sort of finish, and (3) propagation of vibration.

The latter can be really bad and very unpredictable - if you are unlucky enough to strike a harmonic the noise and vibration levels in steel fabrications mounting motors can be spectacular.

I built a table recently based (for speed and because having an accurate positioner sounded very worthwhile) from Incra and other bought parts: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?180400-Another-Router-Table-Build&highlight=router+table

So far it works very well, but hasn't had enough use to necessarily throw up all problems.

Knowing that with a 16in Clear Vue/Pentz based dust system I had plenty of airflow available I spent quite some time thinking about dust collection, but reached no very elegant solution. In that there's such a variety of set ups and hence dust collection requirements - in fence, grooving the bottom of sheet material well away from the fence, free cutting using a template or a guide, maybe even above the workpiece.

You can't pull more air through e.g. extra drillings in the router plate, because it creates suck down. The Incra fence connection works well, but only because I have lots of suction with the big fan as it's only 2.5in dia.

I ended up adding a 4in flex hose with a funnel type intake into the side of the dust box which when used with a clamp on hose bracket can be positioned wherever it's needed. It can also be hooked up to a free hand guard to pull from above.

It collects very well, the high CFM and high pressure drop means that even with the hose open (it acts probably like the bleed holes that some have, but is available for use when needed) the dust system has no difficulty in running what in effect are three connections at once. (though the plate, through the fence, and through the hose) It's stayed very clean on all cuts done so far, and there's no dust hang up in the airbox.

ian

[Peter Aeschliman]

My knee-jerk reaction is that you won't be able to make a thick steel table that is flat (i.e., blanchard ground), stable, and machined for your accessories at a price that is cheaper than the bench dog... especially after you consider your time investment.

I think if you take a hard look at the cost, you'll find that the benchdog price is actually fairly reasonable.

[Greg Portland]

I'm looking for some advice on building a heavy duty router table. I would appreciate any ideas whether they are real experience or "want-to's".

I have been thinking about the following:

1. Top construction - I've read the articles about using ply and mdf faced with laminate and I may eventually go that route, but has anyone considered a 1/2" or 3/8" thick steel top? This would allow me to use magnetic jigs, fingerboards, and even a magnetic fence if I wanted. I would like to mount a router lift directly to the top, without a router plate. I could get the opening machined, then make some steel or hardwood inserts. I want to minimize the ridges and grooves on the top. On my current router table, these always cause me a problem at the worst time.

2. Fence Construction and clamping - I would like to incorporate DC into the fence and clamp it without using slots in the top or T-tracks in a wood top. Maybe it could be clamped from the sides of the table or maybe the mag jigs would work? If using steel for the top, I would likely put an edging under the top and/or around the sides, but could incorporate the fence clamp as necessary.

3. Dust collection underneath the table - I plan to run a 4" duct into the cabinet, but has anyone got any ideas on a hood around the router or is just a 4" duct in the compartment sufficient?

I've seen the Bench Dog Cast Iron top and I like it, but don't like the price. I can get the steel fairly cheap and use some of that money toward machining the opening and inserts.

Any thoughts, comments, or pictures are very much appreciated.

Mike
I have a Veritas (Lee Valley) steel top and it works very well. I used a simple "Router Raizer" which only required a small hole to be drilled into the top. A small shaper + power feeder may be a better option given your requirements. Get one with a router spindle to spin @ high RPM.

[Michael W. Clark]

Thanks Greg, I'm really looking for a little larger top. The Bench Dog is a reasonable price compared to the other commercial top options, but $400+ still seems quite high at this stage of the game. However, it would be a very robust set-up, no doubt.

I need to do some research on the pros/cons of router vs. shaper, I'm sure there is a lot of information avaialable. If you buy the Bench Dog top, lift, and 3HP router, you could get a Grizzly 3HP shaper for the same money, maybe less by the time you add a fence and other accessories to the router table. However, I don't have any shaper cutters and would still need/want the router table for some smaller profiles. At this point, I'm leaning toward the router table concept instead of the shaper.

It appears that I can't get a lift that will bolt to my table, all apparently come with a router plate. I could keep my PC 890 in there and mount it under the top and not use a router plate. The money "saved" from the new router and lift purchase could go toward a future shaper.:)

If I were to do a steel top, I would put a 3/4" plywood/mdf layer under it (maybe two) for vibration dampening (a 1/2" thick steel top is about 85#, and 3/8" thk is about 64#) so I should be OK on harmonics. I would also put a hardwood edging on to cover the plywood and steel edges. I would use a grinder with wire wheel and other accessories to get the finish smooth. Maybe also a ROS with sandpaper. It would need to be waxed like CI tops and surfaces. I don't think it would be any more prone to rusting than the TS, BS, or Jointer.

All this being said, I think the main advantage to the steel top (other than durability) is being able to use mag jigs. Is there any way to use the mag jigs on a laminated plywood top? A magnetic laminant? Or inlaying sheetmetal into the plywood substrate then covering it with laminant? Do the mag jigs hold well enough? I don't have any experience with them but thought I could use them at the TS and BS as well.

Thanks for all the responses. They are very helpful.
Mike

[Howard Rosenberg]

Depending on the size of router table you're thinking of building, the steel Lee Valley router tabletop is a great value. It'll also save you tons of time you'd spend reinventing the wheel. It's manufactured to a standard of flatness we can only dream about in our home shops. Plus it has a great clamping system for keeping your router(s) in place and the creative minds at Lee Valley offer tons of accessories for it. My 2C. Howard

[Michael W. Clark]

My existing table is 24x32, I wouldn't want to do anything smaller. My router is currently centered, but I may offset it to the back a little to give me more support on the front.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

My existing table is 24x32, I wouldn't want to do anything smaller. My router is currently centered, but I may offset it to the back a little to give me more support on the front.

I just looked up Howard's recommendation of the Lee Valley top. This might right up you alley with respect to plate. You just might want to ask the folks up there if it will support the weight of a lift and big router (you would obviously need to machine mounting points for the lift). Bracing should help.

You say you do not want to go smaller, but Grizzly has a cast iron TS router table extension, also with just a hole machined in the top. However it is only 27 inches wide.

[mreza Salav]

I was at this point about a couple of months or so ago (right now am in the middle of making my router table).
For the top I too was looking for something solid that doesn't bend/sag and is large (larger than what Bench-dog offers).
One idea I had was to buy an old cast iron tablesaw top (with wings) and then top it up with, say, 1/4 fomica laminated ply or something. Basically
the cast iron underneath would work as the sable surface. You'd need to cut an openning in the cast iron but that doesn't have to be accurate as long
as your actual (wooden) top is a perfect fit for your router table plate.
I kept looking for a cast iron top for a while and then gave up as nothing came up in the 2-3 months I was looking.

[Ray Newman]

A Lee Valley steel router top alternative??

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=41793&cat=1,43053,43885


and http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43053&p=43885

[Michael W. Clark]

I just looked up Howard's recommendation of the Lee Valley top. This might right up you alley with respect to plate. You just might want to ask the folks up there if it will support the weight of a lift and big router (you would obviously need to machine mounting points for the lift). Bracing should help.

You say you do not want to go smaller, but Grizzly has a cast iron TS router table extension, also with just a hole machined in the top. However it is only 27 inches wide.

Maybe I am missing something, but the website says "Each Veritas® router table top is a 16" x 24" steel plate", I would need two, and they are only 3/16" thick. This would probably be fine, but I want a couple of 3/4" plywood backers. If it was 16x32, maybe I could inlay it into a top and have 8" of laminant on either side?

I saw the Grizzly and am intrigued by it.

[Tom Hargrove]

I am in the process of making a router table, but not the "ultimate" router table. The top is a "blem" solid core flush door. It is as flat as I need it to be, and once placed on a base, it will not flex or sag. This one cost me nothing, but I have seen them for sale at home center stores for $20. The finished top surface will be a 24X32 Corian scrap I got from a local shop. It's orange, but it was cheap. I would rather spend money on wood for furniture than a router table that few people will ever see.

[Damon Stathatos]

The first thing I ever built in my rudimentary shop was a router table. It has turned out to be the only thing in my shop that I have never considered upgrading. I now have a commercial shop with all kinds of 'old iron,' some pretty impressive machines. It's still my router table that most people bee-line to, asking me about it.

Way back when, Rockler used to have 25% off one item coupons. Walked in one what must have been slow night and asked if I could buy a JessEm set up, three pieces, all for the 25% off. They agreed and I walked out with one of their master-r-lifts which had a phenolic top, a master-r-fence and master-r-slide. Built the base as a modified version of Norm's. The fence is rock solid, the top has never moved, the slide is great for coping, but MOST OF ALL, it is KEY to be able to raise and lower the bit with a simple crank of the FRONT handle. I've used tables that you need to insert a handle into the top of the table to adjust the bit but those are a major pain when you have all kinds of feather boards and or stops clamped down, especially since your 'feather board' is most likely clamped right over the opening for the insertable crank.

I know JessEm has gone through a bunch of changes since my 'old days' but checked their site and it still looks as if they carry versions of this set-up. Probably wouldn't be cheap but, like I said, it's the only thing in my shop that it has never crossed my mind to upgrade, so maybe cheap in the long run.

Below are some pictures of a set-up for some doors I was doing. When length is a problem, I just set the table next to my miter saw table for outfeed and then use some sort of rigged infeed.

228320 228321 228322 228323 228324 228325

[Michael W. Clark]

Tom, Good tip on the solid core door. How is corian to work with using woodworking tools? How do you plan to join the corian to the door?

[Michael W. Clark]

Damon, that is an excellent effort for a first attempt. I would be happy if ny new one looks that good. You sound like you are happy with the phenolic top. What do you think about the new Jessem setuo with the side crank? I like the lift and crank but am concerned about sag with a big router.

[Damon Stathatos]

Interesting how they put the crank on the side. My front mounted crank is belt driven with a slotted belt. The new one is shaft driven. I can't imagine much difference other than possibly needing to forsake using the actual handle if your workpiece is directly over the crank. Maybe too close quarters for that. It happens with mine sometimes as well but you just end up using the other surfaces of the crank to do so. This may come into play more often with the side crank as the piece only needs to be long. In my case, it needs to be wide. Either way, I wouldn't let it bother me.

The shaft looks to be fairly deep underneath the bottom of the table surface which means you would interfere with a top drawer. Mine's similar with it's front mechanism but you just design around it. Either that or use one of their tables.

I wouldn't worry about sag, the phenolic doesn't sag, it's completely rigid (also dense, also heavy).

After looking at it closer and checking out their prices, they've gone way up but I suppose they're no different than everyone else. I was choking ten or twelve years ago when I did it and with the discount I got I think it was around $500-600 for the three pieces. Now it looks to be around $1200. If I were faced with it today, knowing what I know now, and if I could swing it, I'd seriously consider it. As I had said, it's the only piece in my shop that I have never considered upgrading. To me, that says a lot.

You might want to give JessEm a call. I'd met them a few times at trade shows and they seem to be a smallish, close company. Maybe they have some old stuff (previous models) they'd just as soon get rid of, maybe save you a few bucks.

[Michael W. Clark]

Damon, looks like the new setup is about $1000 without the miter slider attachment. Do you use the miter slider much? Out of curiosity, do you also run a shaper?

[Damon Stathatos]

The miter slide...not much..only for coping...which is much more rare for me than with the grain. Actually, it's in the way most of the time but does conveniently flip up, out of the way. Now that you mention it, I am flipping it back and forth between moving the fence and such, so, if I were looking at it as you are, would certainly consider it as not necessary. There are other, easy ways to guide a coping cut, like a large, stable block of wood behind the workpiece.

[Damon Stathatos]

I do run a shaper but that wasn't until very late in my game. If I have the choice between setting up the router or shaper for a certain (one or few-off) cuts, I go to the router. I use the shaper for things the router can't do, like large profiles or in production-run circumstances. The router is so much easier to make your cut and off to the next step. The shaper is a more capable but also a vastly more set-up intensive option.

[Alan Schaffter]

I have a slab of granite I got for $30 waiting for a router lift plate cutout to be made in it with an abrasive water jet CNC cutter. The shop owner has to keep his people busy so would do it during down time for $70. He would enter the precise size (I got the engineering specs) for my Woodpeckers insert. But, I want to be able to use my I-BOX which needs a miter slot. The only way I can see to easily and inexpensively add a miter slot is to cut off a 5" wide strip across the front of the table and re-join the two pieces a miter slots width (3/4") apart??? I am rethinking the whole project.

[mreza Salav]

I have a slab of granite I got for $30 waiting for a router lift plate cutout to be made in it with an abrasive water jet CNC cutter. The shop owner has to keep his people busy so would do it during down time for $70. He would enter the precise size (I got the engineering specs) for my Woodpeckers insert. But, I want to be able to use my I-BOX which needs a miter slot. The only way I can see to easily and inexpensively add a miter slot is to cut off a 5" wide strip across the front of the table and re-join the two pieces a miter slots width (3/4") apart??? I am rethinking the whole project.

Make sure your granite surface is as flat as you want before going this route. I once got a 28"x24" slab (for a woodworking purpose) cut to precise size and after getting it home and checking
with my straight edge realized there was a deep of about 0.03" or so in the middle, too much for my purpose.

[David Cefai]

I have a miniscule workshop and cannot therefore have a permanent router table. Mine bolts to the workbench when I need it.

The current version has a welded steel frame supporting the 3/4" plywood top. 12mm threaded rods welded to the frame pass through dog holes and are held by butterfly nuts underneath the benchtop. The router plate is an 8mm aluminium plate, flattened to hand-plane standards.

Strong, rigid and non warping. I suggest anyone looking for rigidity considers a steel frame. (Having a welder helps :-) )

[Alan Schaffter]

I have a miniscule workshop and cannot therefore have a permanent router table. Mine bolts to the workbench when I need it.

The current version has a welded steel frame supporting the 3/4" plywood top. 12mm threaded rods welded to the frame pass through dog holes and are held by butterfly nuts underneath the benchtop. The router plate is an 8mm aluminium plate, flattened to hand-plane standards.

Strong, rigid and non warping. I suggest anyone looking for rigidity considers a steel frame. (Having a welder helps :-) )

This brings up a good point- no matter what you use to make your top, it is best to do a good job supporting it. Except where the router mounts, there are very few reasons you can't build a strong grid/frame under the top- right up to the edges of the insert. Norm didn't do that and most people who build his design don't either. It would have saved many builders the problems of a sagging MDF top.

[Michael W. Clark]

Damon,
Is this similar to the one you have? Not the same color, but maybe a newer version?

http://www.amazon.com/JessEm-02201-Mast-R-Lift-Excel-MicroDial/dp/B00092CPTI/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1333208084&sr=8-19

Mike

[Myk Rian]

Are you a member of router forums?
If not, you might be unable to see the pics in this link. I don't really know.
This is the RT I built.
http://www.routerforums.com/axlmyks-stuff/5103-router-table-cabinet.html

[Damon Stathatos]

Damon,
Is this similar to the one you have? Not the same color, but maybe a newer version?
http://www.amazon.com/JessEm-02201-Mast-R-Lift-Excel-MicroDial/dp/B00092CPTI/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1333208084&sr=8-19



It is the same mechanism as mine. In the Product Description it notes: "The lift mechanism is raised and lowered by an offset right-angle gearbox positioned in the right front corner, under the table top." That is also consistent with mine. The anomaly is however that in their picture it is located on what should be the side of the top, not the front. So yes, it is the same as mine and according to the product description it is located where mine is but the picture shows that it is positioned different than mine. At this point, you're guess is as good as mine.

Another thing to note is that in the product reviews, it got all great reviews with one caveat from the first reviewer in that his phenolic top was not flat out of the box. It goes on to explain the remedies. When I got mine it was flat and is still flat to this day. Since I only have this one experience, I was under the impression (and had been told) that the phenolic was dead-flat and stayed so. However, according to this one reviewer, that may not be the absolute case.

My last comment about this item on Amazon is that it is an old stock item but it's being sold for the same price as their new version. Even though perhaps the old stock item would be my preference based upon the location of the crank, it would really 'bug' me that they're selling it for the same as the new version. This is apparently an 'Amazon Seller,' and not directly from JessEm. I haven't exactly kept up with the JessEm product line through the years but do remember there was a time when this Master-R-Lift was not available at all. I remember because, as I had previously said, there are many people who come into my shop and want to know all kinds of details about the router table and for a long time, maybe a couple of years, there was nothing I could refer them to, JessEm-wise. I think that they had discontinued this old version for a few years and now are back with it in this newer version. If that's the case, you'd think that you should be able to get some kind of substantial deal on the old stock or, at the very least the older, cheaper price. Again, if I were you, I'd call JessEm directly to see what they may offer you. You would also be able to get clarification on the product description vs actual photo anomaly. Lastly, they may explain why they had changed designs in the first place which may sway you one way or the other as well.

[Bruce Seidner]

I lucked out and picked up a new Bench Dog router lift off Craig's List for $35 and then started looking for a dead or dirt cheap table saw. I picked up a $25 Craftsman cast iron top table saw that is full size but fitted with aluminum wings and a funky direct drive motor. So, I had little guilt doing the surgery and gutting this miscreant for the cast iron table. I have called some machine shops but have not gotten around to having the top cut to fit the router plate. It is a work in progress but there are plenty of hospice ready old table saws around that could be reincarnated as router tops in my view. But not having completed the project this is my aspirational perspective.

[Michael W. Clark]

I think I can get the steel pretty cheap, maybe free. Machine time around here is $50 to $70/hr.

I'm going to check out the Jessem arrangement at my local WoodCraft and see what type of support can/should be put under the Phenolic top. I think the new one has cross braces under it. At this point, I would prefer to go the Jessem route, if I can part with the $$. Kind of in-between this and a track saw, about the same money.

If this doesn't work out, I am going to try the steel top route and attach my PC 890 directly to the bottom. I only need a 3-1/2"+ hole in the top and a rabbit milled around the hole for attaching insert rings from the top. If this doesn't work out, I may look at the corian or granite option, or go the laminate rout.

[Carl Beckett]

Hey Michael,

I saw this on CL and thought of you. $125 for a cast iron router top. Seemed like the type of thing you were interested in.

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/tls/2948588812.html

I know its not local to you, but with a little patience you might find something that suits you (I saw a Moak recently listed at a very reasonable price, although it was 3 phase - you could fix that). Have even seen a complete Jessem setup listed recently.

What I am seeing is a LOT of small cabinet shops that have went out of business and are liquidating.

[Wayne Jolly]

That's funny in a way. From the date of your post, that is about the time I was looking for something at the local scrap yard. There was a large pile of broken up iron (probably 15 feet high), and when I walked around to the other side there was maybe 8 or 10 cast iron table saw tops laying there, and most of them still looked like they were in decent shape with only minor surface rust. I didn't have the money at the time, but I really wanted to buy one to see about making a router table top with. They were gone when I went back a few days later. :(


Wayne