Setting up a stanley #8

[Luke Hospadaruk]

I just acquired a nice (well, about to be nice after it gets a little TLC) stanley #8 jointer. Looks to be in pretty good shape overall. Minimal rust (japanning is mostly all there, looks like maybe it got repainted at some point). The sole is pretty clean, well-patina'd but with no pitting or major rust. The iron looks decent as well, again, some rust, but nothing apparently major, and the edge looks good. I think it's an older one, the totes look like they are nice old rosewood ones.

I'll lap the sole tonight, but other than that I don't think there's anything that really needs to be done to the body (I think it'd probably look nicer if I refinished the knob and tote and stripped and repainted all the casting, but that can wait).

My main question is about the iron - it's ground to a camber (which I gather is pretty standard for a plane like this?), how should I go about sharpening it? I use a veritas Mk. II for my other irons (which are all without camber - a stanley #9-1/4 block, a stanley #4 smoother, and a no-name jack plane). I know veritas makes a camber roller for the Mk. II which looks nice, but I've nothing against hand sharpening (I've just never done it before, successfully at least).

What I want to know is:
1) How much camber should I put on the iron - and how is that measured? Would it be a disaster to just grind it straight and use it without any camber?
2) What's the best way to sharpen it? Is the camber roller worth my time (and money)?
3) Anything else I didn't think of?

Thanks!

[David Posey]

Does the sole need lapping, or just cleaning? I've found relatively few metal planes with soles that didn't work as found.

If it were my plane, I would take out all the camber and make it straight, and just dock the corners slightly so it doesn't leave tracks. If working from rough stock, you generally want significant camber in the first plane you use and a very very slight one in your smoother, but your joiner should be straight across. You are, after all, using it to make a surface flat. With camber a plane makes a surface a series of ridges and valleys.

[Chris Griggs]

I would get the blade sharp, make sure the chipbreaker mates well, and give it a go before bothering with lapping.

I like a cambered jointer plane blade. Some like more camber, some like less, some a straight edge, some have multiple jointers so they don't have to choose. If I were in your shoes I would regrind it straight and then add a little camber, test it, then add a little more if you like. With my jointers I think I like a little more camber than some people. I have the impression, that a lot of people will just put slightly more than a smoothing plane using only there stones. I do actually like to grind in the camber, although I don't camber my jointers anywhere near as much my jack plane. How much is hard to say - basically I've found that I like to grind it so that when I hold a ruler straight across the apex of the curved edge I can see maybe around a 64th of an inch space (GROSS ROUGH ESTIMATE) between the ruler and cutting edge at each far corner of the blade. Its enough curve that it easily seen with a straight edge against it, but not so much that you can readily tell its curved when its just sitting there. I like a bit of camber because it makes it easy to initially take heavier shavings and then decrease the thickness for final passes, when I thin out the shaving my shavings aren't quite full width, but this is of no consequence to me.

Again, start with a straight or very very slightly cambered edge,and keep adding more until you are taking near full width shaving at the thickness you desire. Its easy enough to keep adding a little camber by biasing your pressure on the corners of the blade on a 1k stone stone.

For honing a small amount of camber with the MKII you can bias the pressure enough even while using the straight roller. This gets hard as you add more camber, so yes it might be worth your while to get the camber roller, but you can also pick up an eclipse guide with a narrow roller for $10-$15 that will be well suited for this task, which would be my preference.

[lowell holmes]

You might buy a replacement blade, keeping two would let you have one flat and one cambered.

I prefer a flat iron for jointing, but on occasions you can use the cambered iron to make an edge square.

I have two irons for a no 3. One is a narrow severely cambered iron I use for scrubbing. I ose the other for finer work.

[Don Dorn]

You're a better man than me if you are prepared to try and flatten the sole of the #8. I agree with those that say to prepare the iron, breaker and try it. If you can get even .002, I wouldn't worry about it. The job of that plane is to flatten and joint, not smooth.

[Prashun Patel]

Camber on a jointer is IMHO entirely a matter of personal preference. I see only 2 reasons for camber: to avoid tracks when smoothing, and to allow aggressive cuts when dimensioning/scrub-planing. I think it's appropriate on low angle smoothers and scrub/jack planes.

In my hands, a #7 or #8 is too long and fatiguing for either smoothing or scrubbing, so I have mine set to straight. I, like you, use a MKII.

FWIW, there is a cambered roller available for the MKII should you decide you want to keep the camber on yr blade.

[steven c newman]

IF there is any camber on my #8 iron, it got there unintentionally. It is a BIG old iron228168 And I tend to leave well enough alone. The other iron in the picture is from a #4 sized plane.

[Luke Hospadaruk]

I'll probably just grind it flat, I have no particular desire to have a camber on it. Also as to lapping the sole, when I say lap, I suppose I really just mean "clean up" - I'm just going to put some sandpaper on my surface plate and take the rust off. What grit should I finish with - I assume it doesn't need to be polished but maybe 100 is a little rough? I have no reason to believe it's particularly out of flat, nor is any of the work I do terribly demanding if it is. If when cleaning it up I discover it to be badly warped I may put some effort into it, but otherwise I'll probably just leave it alone.

I am curious about repainting it - has anyone ever done this? I'm imagining:
1) dis-assemble
2) soak in paint stripper (or maybe just acetone) for a while
3) wire brush off any remaining rust on the topsides
4) mask everything off
5) prime and paint

Also - I need a chip breaker. I can get one from hock, but if anyone has a spare laying around or knows where I can get a cheaper one, I'd be interested.

[Luke Hospadaruk]

Just saw that veritas has chip breakers as well (which look similar to the LN breakers) for less than hock. ($30 for the 2-5/8).

BTW, thanks for all the responses - super helpful =)

[Jim Koepke]

Luke,

Welcome to the cave by the Creek. Your profile doesn't show your location. You may live near someone with blades set up straight and cambered who is willing to let you try their blades in your plane to experience the difference.

I tend to go straight edge on my jointers. At times when my stones are not flat the blades do acquire a slight camber. I do not like this much on a jointer.

A few tracks on a panel caused by a jointer are not a big deal to remove with a smoother. My smoother blades are usually not cambered either. When taking a very fine shaving with a very sharp blade there usually aren't any tracks left. YMMV

I would also suggest against lapping the sole without proof it is needed.

Also, with a few pictures of your plane it might be possible to tell when it was made.

jtk

[Jerome Hanby]

I haven't tried it yet, but I've collected documentation and materials to try japanning some fixer-upper planes I bought off the bay. I'm not looking at my information, but seems like oi recall carburetor cleaner being used to strip the old finish off. Not sure if that would also work for pain or just the old japanning.

[Jim Koepke]

I'll probably just grind it flat, I have no particular desire to have a camber on it. Also as to lapping the sole, when I say lap, I suppose I really just mean "clean up" - I'm just going to put some sandpaper on my surface plate and take the rust off. What grit should I finish with - I assume it doesn't need to be polished but maybe 100 is a little rough? I have no reason to believe it's particularly out of flat, nor is any of the work I do terribly demanding if it is. If when cleaning it up I discover it to be badly warped I may put some effort into it, but otherwise I'll probably just leave it alone.

I am curious about repainting it - has anyone ever done this? I'm imagining:
1) dis-assemble
2) soak in paint stripper (or maybe just acetone) for a while
3) wire brush off any remaining rust on the topsides
4) mask everything off
5) prime and paint

Also - I need a chip breaker. I can get one from hock, but if anyone has a spare laying around or knows where I can get a cheaper one, I'd be interested.

Have you looked in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs near the top of the conference?

There are a few posts in there about rehabilitating old planes.

Here are a couple of posts on an old #7 I bought a few years ago:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?116356
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373

Bob Smalser also posted some good information:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?5867

Hope these help.

jtk

[Luke Hospadaruk]

Just an update:
ground the blade flat (mostly, there's still a hint of the camber towards the edges, but it doesn't really bother me) keeping the original 25 deg bevel.
Used a chip breaker from veritas
touched the bottom lightly with some sandpaper on my surface plate

It makes shavings like a champ, I'm real happy with it.

I may yet strip down and redo the paint, touch up the rosewood, etc, but for now I'm real happy with how it cuts.

Thanks for the help!

[Charlie Stanford]

I just acquired a nice (well, about to be nice after it gets a little TLC) stanley #8 jointer. Looks to be in pretty good shape overall. Minimal rust (japanning is mostly all there, looks like maybe it got repainted at some point). The sole is pretty clean, well-patina'd but with no pitting or major rust. The iron looks decent as well, again, some rust, but nothing apparently major, and the edge looks good. I think it's an older one, the totes look like they are nice old rosewood ones.

I'll lap the sole tonight, but other than that I don't think there's anything that really needs to be done to the body (I think it'd probably look nicer if I refinished the knob and tote and stripped and repainted all the casting, but that can wait).

My main question is about the iron - it's ground to a camber (which I gather is pretty standard for a plane like this?), how should I go about sharpening it? I use a veritas Mk. II for my other irons (which are all without camber - a stanley #9-1/4 block, a stanley #4 smoother, and a no-name jack plane). I know veritas makes a camber roller for the Mk. II which looks nice, but I've nothing against hand sharpening (I've just never done it before, successfully at least).

What I want to know is:
1) How much camber should I put on the iron - and how is that measured? Would it be a disaster to just grind it straight and use it without any camber?
2) What's the best way to sharpen it? Is the camber roller worth my time (and money)?
3) Anything else I didn't think of?

Thanks!

To be honest with you, I don't believe you should attempt lapping the sole if you are uncertain about honing the plane iron. If you want to, you can free-hand sand the almost inevitable bump behind the mouth (convexity in the middle of the plane) with some 80 grit until you knock it down a bit. Check first, though. Do not try a full-fledged lapping. Unless you know exactly what you're doing you'll end up with a cast iron banana as it is terribly easy to make a convex-soled plane worse. The easiest to lap are slightly concave and as soon as you put it on a flat surface you'll be easily removing material right were needed - toe and heel. If the sole is convex you need to take the middle down by hand sanding or scraping the middle 1/3rd of the sole until it's very, very slightly concave. THEN and only then should you attempt lapping the full sole.

As for the iron - hone it straight across and take the corners down a bit which is not problem with a jig. Just let all but the corner hang off the stone and rub 10-15 times (each corner). That'll do it.

You do not need a camber roller attachment for the jig. I like cambered blades, but at this point you ought to just not worry about it.

Put her to work.

[Jim R Edwards]

I recently refurbished a 608 flat side bedrock and I lapped the plane. It wasn't that bad. I have a long piece of glas and I went to harbor freight and bought some 80 grit 48 inch belt sander parer. I cut it in half and secured it to the glass and lapped away. It took a little while but the effort was worth it.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/webkit-fake-url://00701443-E5EE-498E-842B-B3F7151DAA5A/imagejpeg

[John A. Callaway]

you were asking about repainting a plane.... Here is a link to my number 8 rehab.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?144408-number-8-restoration-YAY-!!!!&highlight= (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?144408-number-8-restoration-YAY-%21%21%21%21&highlight=)

[Kenneth Speed]

Hi Luke,

Well, congratulations on your No. 8. I think you'll learn to love it. I picked up an oldie a while ago and using it makes me think of driving my dad's old 1960 Mercury. Not a lot of acceleration but once you got it rolling it floated down the road!

I, personally, don't see very much use for camber on a jointer plane iron although I will use my No. 7 to flatten a wide board but I'm not over concerned about the surface of the wood at that point because I'll be dressing the surface after I get it flat or close to flat.

My take on refurbishing a tool is to do what I have to do to make it fit for what I intend it to do. I don't, as an example, spend a whole lot of time worrying about how flat the sole is on the old jack plane I use as a scrub plane. I do have a thing about rusty tools so I keep them clean and I'm obsessive about wiping down the tools I use with an oily rag. If the broken tote on an old plane doesn't bother then I don't fix it, if it does I do.

I"d avoid using acetone if possible. it's nasty stuff. If you need to use chemicals as powerful as that try to use them outside where the vapors can dissipate quickly. I knew someone who nearly killed themselves using acetone in an enclosed area.

Lapping the sole of a jointer plane isn't all that tough or demanding. I have a fairly big piece of 1/2" plate glass that I adhere sandpaper to with spray contact cement. I generally start out with 100 grit and work my way down to about 180. The sole of your jointer plane needn't be as smooth as shiny or as flat as a mirror. Before I worried about the japanning ( which is just lacquer as far as I know) and other cosmetic issues I'd invest in a really good blade and chip breaker. I think Hock tools are among the best for plane blades and the like.


If you want to hot rod a tool, that's another matter and you can be as obsessive as you wish. I added a really great aftermarket tote and knob to my No 7 plane and to my Veritas bevel up jack plane and it made a huge difference in the way the planes felt in my hand. Visit this website for great after market plane totes and knobs: Hardware City Tools. You'll use a comfortable tool more effectively than an uncomfortable one and these handles are worth every penny.

[Charlie Stanford]

You're a machine. I certainly couldn't lap a No. 8 sole 'in an evening.' It probably doesn't need it. Check it - it most likely has a bump behind the mouth. Take that down with some 60 grit by hand sanding, then clean any other grunge off the sole and you're done. You'll find that what you think is 'patina' is actually rust. Watch the sandpaper turn red when you hit the sole with it. Use a little garnet paper if you don't believe me - the garnet will show the red better.

It needs some camber, a weak 32nd of an inch will do across such a wide cutter. You can mark the back of the iron with a scriber and grind straight across to put the curve in (you can't really put a material amount of camber into a thin plane iron; camber and curve are not the same; camber implies some thickness to work with), or you can shape it at your bench stones. You don't need a jig.

[Luke Hospadaruk]

I just resawed some 2x6 down to 1(ish)x6 on my little bandsaw and planed out the sawn side with the #8 followed by a #4 in a couple places where I accidentally cut some tracks. Awesome. Awesome awesome awesome. It was the first time I really got to let the #8 loose on something appropriately sized and it was a joy. It blasts through that pine, I could probably tune it up a little more to get it to track less, but that doesn't really matter for my current project (little not-too-fancy rowboat), and it's easy enough to clean it up with the #4.

I still haven't even really cleaned off all the rust on the sole yet (it's smooth, just discoloration mainly, and what look like a couple little water-mark rust spots). I did grind and sharpen the blade, and it's sporting a veritas chip breaker (I haven't done anything with the #8 yet that really calls for a chip-breaker, but it is a really nice chip breaker as far as I can tell. I also rubbed a little wax onto the sole and it made a noticeable difference (though not huge).

Long story short, I'm very happy with it, and will probably put off really cleaning it to the max for the winter when I can't work with it out in the garage.

Using it kinda reminds me of masking tape, because when you zip it down a board it looks like you're unrolling a big roll real fast.

[David Weaver]

I agree with charles, I've always found jointers tough to lap, and there is a point where they get tougher to lap based on your weight, I'd think.

My luck with #8s was always a lot better by turning the plane over and sanding with a block on the bottom than it was lapping the whole surface. Even at close to 200 pounds, i couldn't get enough pressure on the 8 for fresh 80 grit paper to cut for long- as soon as it loses even the tiniest bit of freshness, there's just not enough pounds per square inch on the bottom of the plane. I've had two that I had to lap because of defects that were detrimental to planing (both were very concave in the length), and I didn't much like it in either case.

7s are a little better to do a full lap, but not much. It is on the order of 4 times faster to remove cast with a 3x2 inch hardwood block backing sandpaper, and touch the whole plane to the large lap just to find the high spots.

[David Weaver]

I just resawed some 2x6 down to 1(ish)x6 on my little bandsaw and planed out the sawn side with the #8 followed by a #4 in a couple places where I accidentally cut some tracks. Awesome. Awesome awesome awesome. It was the first time I really got to let the #8 loose on something appropriately sized and it was a joy. It blasts through that pine, I could probably tune it up a little more to get it to track less, but that doesn't really matter for my current project (little not-too-fancy rowboat), and it's easy enough to clean it up with the #4.

I still haven't even really cleaned off all the rust on the sole yet (it's smooth, just discoloration mainly, and what look like a couple little water-mark rust spots). I did grind and sharpen the blade, and it's sporting a veritas chip breaker (I haven't done anything with the #8 yet that really calls for a chip-breaker, but it is a really nice chip breaker as far as I can tell. I also rubbed a little wax onto the sole and it made a noticeable difference (though not huge).

Long story short, I'm very happy with it, and will probably put off really cleaning it to the max for the winter when I can't work with it out in the garage.

Using it kinda reminds me of masking tape, because when you zip it down a board it looks like you're unrolling a big roll real fast.

Use it with good effect until then, and you may find that the effect is good enough that you never feel like doing anything else with it. Concavity, twist, or high centering on a bad spot is probably the only reason I'd bother with one. I sold every (jointer) plane I lapped, it turned out to be a waste of time for me.

[Charlie Stanford]

I agree with charles, I've always found jointers tough to lap, and there is a point where they get tougher to lap based on your weight, I'd think.

My luck with #8s was always a lot better by turning the plane over and sanding with a block on the bottom than it was lapping the whole surface. Even at close to 200 pounds, i couldn't get enough pressure on the 8 for fresh 80 grit paper to cut for long- as soon as it loses even the tiniest bit of freshness, there's just not enough pounds per square inch on the bottom of the plane. I've had two that I had to lap because of defects that were detrimental to planing (both were very concave in the length), and I didn't much like it in either case.

7s are a little better to do a full lap, but not much. It is on the order of 4 times faster to remove cast with a 3x2 inch hardwood block backing sandpaper, and touch the whole plane to the large lap just to find the high spots.

I just find the high spots and spot sand them with paper affixed to a sanding block. Record planes are usually slightly concave. I just work toe and heel until the gap in the middle closes *enough* to suit me. These are much easier to fix than a banana shaped plane. This lapping the whole sole bit is where people go wrong IMO. Just use sandpaper as if it were an engineer's scraper. Find the high spots and sand them down. It's really more or less like bringing a board to flat. Hit the high areas. It'll get flat in a hurry.

[Jim Neeley]

Luke,

Another opinion, to join the others. :)

I "camber" my #8 iron so it's relief is just a bit more than my depth of cut when plaining stock flat. IME, I can get enough using my MKII and my 1,000 grit stones in just a minute or so by exerting firm pressure on one corner at a time.

YMMV.. :)