What is the latest in planer sleds?

[Phil Thien]

LOL, I'll bet some of you knew this was coming.

I've replaced two machines with a single unit to make more room in the shop. I sold my Inca jointer/planer, and my Ryobi drum sander.

I did get a Dewalt DW734 planer which will be mobile and can tuck into a corner.

So I no longer have a jointer of any kind.

I did make a jig (see post #9 <here> (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?183738-Material-to-use-as-fence-extension&highlight=)) for straight-line ripping on the table saw, and can now get great, glue-line rips.

But I need something to "face joint" rough lumber. So I need a planer sled.

So what is the latest in planer sleds? I've been looking at Google and see the FWW sled with the wedges. I know some people use hot-melt glue.

Is there anything new? Any good ideas?

[John Michaels]

I just came across this the other day. They have 3 different sizes.

WoodHaven Planing Sled (http://www.woodhaven.com/Woodhaven-3000-27-Planing-Sled/dp/B002UZGUSY?ie=UTF8&id=Woodhaven%203000%2027%20Planing%20Sled&field_product_site_launch_date_utc=-1y&field_availability=-1&field_browse=3026347011&searchSize=12&searchNodeID=3026347011&searchPage=1&refinementHistory=subjectbin%2Cprice&searchRank=salesrank)

[denis tuomey]

I made the FWW sled by Keith Rust and it worked out quite well.

[Andrew Joiner]

Hi Phil,
I use planer sleds a lot. I have color coded shims of 3 taper sizes most are from 0" to 1/8". They are rough sawn on a bandsaw. The rough surface keeps them in place without hot glue. I set the stock on the sled,hold it to the front stop and lightly slide in shims till the stock is firm. The shims don't move as it goes thru the planer.

The key to success with this method is a flat setup area level with the infeed table of your planer bed. You can't disturb the "package" of the stock shimmed firmly on the sled before it gets pulled in by the infeed roller. I grab the stock and push it tight to the sled as it comes out of the planer sliding on my outfeed table. If I need to take off more I crank up the planer 2 turns I can slide the "package" back thru without disturbing the shims. I check the shims before the second pass, but they are usually good or just need a slight shift to be firm.

This method is almost as fast as jointer and you have power feed! I spent a lot time at a jointer getting real tired pushing down on long stock. Sleds eliminate this and they get stock just as flat.
Here's more on my thoughts as I worked this out:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?134633-A-Lightweight-8-Foot-Planer-Sled (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?134633-A-Lightweight-8-Foot-Planer-Sled)

[Alan Lightstone]

Not that thrilled with the Woodhaven sled. Have to revisit it sometime, but I had pretty disappointing results first time I used it. Most people, I think, who are using routers for this are switching to a smaller sled for this.

I always thought that the Rust sled was a pretty slick design.

You're looking for a sled to put through your planer, though, right?

[John Michaels]

Not that thrilled with the Woodhaven sled. Have to revisit it sometime, but I had pretty disappointing results first time I used it.

What didn't you like about the woodhaven sled? I've been thinking of purchasing this one?

[Alan Lightstone]

Not sure where I screwed up the setup, but I found way too much variation in thickness (where there should have been virtually none.) Made me reduce the thickness of a gorgeous teak table top to far less than I wanted. I do have the Woodhaven cross cut sled and like it (though it's VERY heavy) so I do like their stuff, but the router sled - not thrilled with it so far. I'm thinking a planer sled is a better solution. I've wondered if a planer sled is a better solution than a jointer, actually. Love the power feed concept, likely less snipe, etc...

[Andrew Joiner]

I'm thinking a planer sled is a better solution. I've wondered if a planer sled is a better solution than a jointer, actually. Love the power feed concept, likely less snipe, etc...

Bingo! When a simple jig does the work of a huge costly machine I just have to giggle.

[glenn bradley]

Phil, even though I upgraded to a 15" floor machine I still use the planer sled I made (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?58735-Planer-Sled-2-0)back when I was saving up for a wider jointer. I used it on my DW734 and still use it on the new planer to face joint wide boards when required. It is Keith Rust's design form the FWW article. It lives on the lumber rack when not in use.

[Phil Thien]

Hi Phil,
I use planer sleds a lot. I have color coded shims of 3 taper sizes most are from 0" to 1/8". They are rough sawn on a bandsaw. The rough surface keeps them in place without hot glue. I set the stock on the sled,hold it to the front stop and lightly slide in shims till the stock is firm. The shims don't move as it goes thru the planer.

The key to success with this method is a flat setup area level with the infeed table of your planer bed. You can't disturb the "package" of the stock shimmed firmly on the sled before it gets pulled in by the infeed roller. I grab the stock and push it tight to the sled as it comes out of the planer sliding on my outfeed table. If I need to take off more I crank up the planer 2 turns I can slide the "package" back thru without disturbing the shims. I check the shims before the second pass, but they are usually good or just need a slight shift to be firm.

This method is almost as fast as jointer and you have power feed! I spent a lot time at a jointer getting real tired pushing down on long stock. Sleds eliminate this and they get stock just as flat.
Here's more on my thoughts as I worked this out:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?134633-A-Lightweight-8-Foot-Planer-Sled (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?134633-A-Lightweight-8-Foot-Planer-Sled)



I actually found the thread you linked when searching SMC last night.

Due to having to compress my shop, There is really no way I'd be able to have a "setup" area in front of the planer. I'd basically need to setup the sled on my bench, and then walk it over to the planer. With the shims being lose, I think they might shift (like you said).

My ideal sled would be:

(1) Lightweight. I've love a base made of a single 1/2" piece of plywood. I don't think stiffness is that critical. The important factor seems to be that the distance between the board you're planing, and the sled, cannot compress when it goes under the planer's rollers.

(2) Fast (quick to setup).

(3) Flexible (handle the widest variety of sizes).

(4) Easy/quick to build.

[Phil Thien]

Phil, even though I upgraded to a 15" floor machine I still use the planer sled I made (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?58735-Planer-Sled-2-0)back when I was saving up for a wider jointer. I used it on my DW734 and still use it on the new planer to face joint wide boards when required. It is Keith Rust's design form the FWW article. It lives on the lumber rack when not in use.

I admire Mr. Rust's jig for its functionality. I'll bet those work great.

I'd just like to make something lighter and a little less complicated (fewer moving parts).

[Myk Rian]

How about a torsion box as the sled base?

[Andrew Joiner]

. With the shims being lose, I think they might shift (like you said).
Try it they may not shift if your careful.



.
(1) Lightweight. I've love a base made of a single 1/2" piece of plywood. I don't think stiffness is that critical. The important factor seems to be that the distance between the board you're planing, and the sled, cannot compress when it goes under the planer's rollers.
That's the rub Phil. If your 1/2'' thick sled flexes and sags as it feeds, the shims will shift. Then you won't get a flat face on your stock.


.
(2) Fast (quick to setup). Non glued shims are fast ,even faster than the screwed shims on a Rust sled.

.
(3) Flexible (handle the widest variety of sizes). You can use one big sled ,but I have a 4'x13'' and an 8'x13",for faster handling.

.
(4) Easy/quick to build.
Nothing simpler than a flat 1/2" sheet of mdf or ply with a cleat on 1 end. The sled can have a little flex to it because it's set-up with stock and shims on a dead flat registration surface. On a Rust sled the whole sled is the registration surface so it's HEAVY.

You could make a removable bed to save space. This serves as your registration surface. It must be flat and stiff. It must be as long as your longest sled (on the in feed side of the planer) to get flat faces. I use 2 workbenches set at exactly the same level as my planer bed for this . I have a lunch box planer so my planer bed stays at the same height.

[Andrew Joiner]

This isn't my set-up but similar. My infeed support is 9' long. As long as the infeed support and planer bed are all on the same level, you can use a thin,lightweight sled. Having an outfeed table on the same level isn't mandatory. It does save time because you can crank up your planer head and slide your sled back for a second pass without disturbing the shims.



http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRE2p-ak0QecQdRej3DOjfq5XYstkosJtyaRkv8EJgkJhiTaMe1hhPgl Hb-xg

[Paul Incognito]

I've made a couple of sleds like Anderew describes. I used scrap 3/4" plywood as the base and put shims under the board I wanted to flatten, then screwed the 2 ends to the sled from the bottom. I think it took 10-15 min to build the sled, and with the ends screwed down tight I was able to carry the sled to my planer without anything shifting. Just make sure you don't use too long screws...
Paul

[glenn bradley]

There is really no way I'd be able to have a "setup" area in front of the planer. I'd basically need to setup the sled on my bench, and then walk it over to the planer. With the shims being lose, I think they might shift (like you said).

I fear you will have a hard time of it if you do not have a well supported infeed and outfeed path. The weight of the sled and the material could be very awkward and the snipe-monster could come out of hiding:). The wedges are locked in place. Shifting parts were one of my concerns until I ran the sled for awhile. I now trust it completely. the weight is an issue as you need to ahve a platform that is rigid enough to resist the considerable forces of the feed rollers. I used 1/2" BB ply upper and lower pieces with a web of 3/4" BB ply between to create a bit of a torsion box (although a shallow one). It have worked well with material up to 4" thick but, as stated; the weight can be an issue without a decent staging area. The trouble is that face jointing (planing in this case) is a repeated procedure. You may take the sled from outfeed back to infeed a half a dozen times. I always enjoy your solutions to complex problems and look forward to your successful conquering of this challenge as well :)

[Phil Thien]

I fear you will have a hard time of it if you do not have a well supported infeed and outfeed path. The weight of the sled and the material could be very awkward and the snipe-monster could come out of hiding:). The wedges are locked in place. Shifting parts were one of my concerns until I ran the sled for awhile. I now trust it completely. the weight is an issue as you need to ahve a platform that is rigid enough to resist the considerable forces of the feed rollers. I used 1/2" BB ply upper and lower pieces with a web of 3/4" BB ply between to create a bit of a torsion box (although a shallow one). It have worked well with material up to 4" thick but, as stated; the weight can be an issue without a decent staging area. The trouble is that face jointing (planing in this case) is a repeated procedure. You may take the sled from outfeed back to infeed a half a dozen times. I always enjoy your solutions to complex problems and look forward to your successful conquering of this challenge as well :)

I may be slow (okay, I'm slow), but I don't understand why the sled has to be so stiff? I thought all that was necessary was a sled and shims that would prevent the board's high spots from compressing when it goes under the rollers?

I'm fully admitting that is a giant assumption on my part.

[Andrew Joiner]

Phil,

Picture a jointer with 1' long infeed and out feed tables. If you try to flatten long curved stock with a short tabled jointer the knives want to follow the curve of the stock. You could however flatten 1' long stock.

A stiff sled or a flexible sled on a stiff infeed table acts like long bed jointer tables only the planer knives are above the stock.

[Andrew Joiner]

You want your cut to follow this dotted line , not a sagging dotted line.

http://www.startwoodworking.com/sites/startwoodworking.com/files/imagecache/large_400w/uploads/1/1291/2-planer-sled-drawing.jpg

[Phil Thien]

Phil,

Picture a jointer with 1' long infeed and out feed tables. If you try to flatten long curved stock with a short tabled jointer the knives want to follow the curve of the stock. You could however flatten 1' long stock.

A stiff sled or a flexible sled on a stiff infeed table acts like long bed jointer tables only the planer knives are above the stock.

Instead of the jointer, I'm thinking in terms of a gantry CNC. Instead of the gantry moving, the bed is moving. And the bed is my sled with shims, and the workpiece on top. As long as the relationship between the sled, the shims, and the workpiece stays the same, I'm good, no?

[Andrew Joiner]

I say no, but try it Phil. It only takes a few scraps to test your theory. If you don't want dead flat stock it may be OK. If you hot glue your shims it may work .

[Rod Sheridan]

Bingo! When a simple jig does the work of a huge costly machine I just have to giggle.

I'd agree except it's way faster to just run the work over the jointer.

If I need power feed on the jointer because of my shop layout I just swing the saw/shaper feeder around to run on the jointer..

Now as to cost, my planer came with a free 12" jointer :-)........Rod.

[Phil Thien]

I'd agree except it's way faster to just run the work over the jointer.

If I need power feed on the jointer because of my shop layout I just swing the saw/shaper feeder around to run on the jointer..

Now as to cost, my planer came with a free 12" jointer :-)........Rod.

I agree. The dedicated jointer made quick work of face and edge jointing.

OTOH, I think the planer method is safer. I've seen at least 2-3 threads in the last couple of years from serious accidents on the jointer.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Phil, yes the jointer can produce some horrific accidents.

I have to admit that I find the bridge guard much safer than my older machine which had a pork chop type guard.

There's a lot to be said for power feed and operator safety........Rod.

[Augusto Orosco]

My ideal sled would be:

(1) Lightweight. I've love a base made of a single 1/2" piece of plywood. I don't think stiffness is that critical. The important factor seems to be that the distance between the board you're planing, and the sled, cannot compress when it goes under the planer's rollers.

(2) Fast (quick to setup).

(3) Flexible (handle the widest variety of sizes).

(4) Easy/quick to build.


Have you considered a jack hand plane? If the idea of a sled is to stop the board from rocking on the bottom so the planer can get the top flat, all you would need to do is remove the high spots with a hand plane until it stops rocking. Then run it through the planer to get the top flat, then flip it and get the bottom truly flat.

In theory, I guess you need to make sure the board doesn't rock on any section the length of the planer bed, but that can be achieved with the plane with a little practice. But even if you want to keep the hand planing to the absolute minimum, all you need to do is to hand plane down the high spots until it stops rocking, put the board on top of another flat board (say Ply or MDF) and send it through the planer. This intermediate option would be the simplest planer sled, with no need of shims or anything like that, and it's only limited by the availability of a flat board the suits your lumber.

[Alan Lightstone]

Now as to cost, my planer came with a free 12" jointer :-)........Rod.
That's strange. My 12" jointer came with a free planer. Wierd...

[Rod Sheridan]

That's strange. My 12" jointer came with a free planer. Wierd...

Alan, that's because you have the US edition.

Regards, Rod.

[glenn bradley]

In my experience, the DW734 is unlikely to have that reliable of a relationship going on in the small area between rollers, cutterhead and platen. You can vary your cut results pretty drastically by altering your feed path during a pass through the planer. The little lunchbox machine is just not that invincible to outside influence :). I say give it a test with a piece of particle board or MDF as a backer to a 2"x8"x5' test piece. I originally ran a piece of MDF with short screws driven in at various locations. The screws were backed out to provide the support to the irregular surface and thus allow a straight and level pass beneath the planer head. . . definitely got mixed results due to flex but, we must consider the operator (that would be me :o). As Andrew states, it would be quick and cheap to test the theory.

[Phil Thien]

I did a couple of test runs w/ a 1/2" thick sled.

It worked well on thick pieces, stuff 4/4 or thicker. I got nice, flat surfaces.

I tried it on a thin (about 1/2") piece and I can see where the rollers compressed the distance between the workpiece and the sled because there weren't enough shims. As you work with thinner and thinner pieces of material, you need more and more shims.

I've got some more things to try tonight, including hot-melt glue for the thinner pieces.

[Alan Schwabacher]

I have a 5' sled of the Rust design that you are welcome to borrow if you like. I live less than a mile from where you work. The rust sled contains its own flat reference surface. If your workbench is flat, you don't need a fancy sled though.

I also have an 8' long piece of MDF shelving, and use that as a sled for longer stock. To set it up, I put it on a flat surface, add the stock on top, and put in wedges to even it out. Then I use cheap hot glue to attach MDF, wedges and stock together so they don't slip. I run the assembly through the planer, then pry off the crud, flip the stock, and plane the other face. The cooled glue is soft enough to be easily planed off, so there's no need to clean it carefully.

[Phil Thien]

I have a 5' sled of the Rust design that you are welcome to borrow if you like. I live less than a mile from where you work. The rust sled contains its own flat reference surface. If your workbench is flat, you don't need a fancy sled though.

I also have an 8' long piece of MDF shelving, and use that as a sled for longer stock. To set it up, I put it on a flat surface, add the stock on top, and put in wedges to even it out. Then I use cheap hot glue to attach MDF, wedges and stock together so they don't slip. I run the assembly through the planer, then pry off the crud, flip the stock, and plane the other face. The cooled glue is soft enough to be easily planed off, so there's no need to clean it carefully.

First, thanks for the offer on the loan of the Rust sled. Depending on how my testing goes over the next few days, I may take you up on that! My planer is 12-1/2" wide, is your sled less than this?

I'm hoping that tonight I'm able to duplicate what you describe in your second paragraph. If I can do that, I'm home-free.

I need a sled that can handle material that will become quite thin, because I have a source (a friend) for lumber that, even in short lengths, isn't going to finish at much more than 1/2".

[Phil Thien]

SUCCESS!

My objective for this evening was to come up with a way to quickly mount wonky boards to my planer sled so I could face "joint" them accurately.

I came up with a technique which worked great.

My technique uses hot-melt glue. Others have used hot-melt glue to hold their shims. I took it to the next step, using the glue itself as the shims.

While I realize hot-melt glue is soft and not hard on planer knives, I just didn't want to bother with having to remove or plane the stuff, and I think I came up w/ a clever solution there, too.

I started by running two strips of masking tape down the bottom of my workpiece (keeping close to the edges). Then I ran two corresponding pieces of masking tape down the length of my sled, so they'd line up with the ones on my workpiece.

Now, I took the glue gun which had been warming up and made a full trigger-pull glob of glue about every six to eight inches. Once I had all the globs in place, I flipped the workpiece over and placed it on the sled, aligning with the previously placed strips of tape.

Now the glue globs were free to drip down onto the tape on the sled. I wobbled the piece a couple of times, and then used a temporary tapered shim to hold it "just right" until the glue set up. In this case, "just right" means I would be removing the least amount of material from the board during planing.

Once the glue was set, I set aside the temporary shim and I was ready for the planer.

That's right, I'm using only glue for my shims, no actual wooden or plastic shims are involved!

And the best part was, when I was all done, all I had to do was finger-pry the workpiece off the sled, and remove all the masking tape. The glue stays with the tape!

And the best, best part was, the board came out nice and flat. I couldn't have done any better with my (now gone) jointer.

I've included three pics. The first is what it looks like when I'm prying the woodpiece off the sled. The other two try to capture the globs of glue acting as shims.

I can see that I'd probably want to use move globs as a workpiece gets thinner.

I look forward to perfecting this technique over the coming weeks.

[Andrew Joiner]

SUCCESS!






And the best, best part was, the board came out nice and flat. I couldn't have done any better with my (now gone) jointer.



It does work. I still encourage you to try non -glued shims. You can shim a 12''x6' board in 20 seconds. A real twisted one may take 12 shims and 30 seconds max.

[Phil Thien]

It does work. I still encourage you to try non -glued shims. You can shim a 12''x6' board in 20 seconds. A real twisted one may take 12 shims and 30 seconds max.

I did. But due to the way I have to move the unit from the bench to the planer they were moving on me. The glue shims won't budge. I can violently shake the sled and it keeps perfect alignment.

Also, the glue shims automatically fill the gaps perfectly. Gravity removes all the guesswork.

And it goes pretty fast. You'd be surprised.

[Ty Williams]

How does the glue stay molten long enough for you to add all the dollops over a large board?

[Alan Lightstone]

Interesting, Phil. Doesn't the glue remain flexible when dried and compress somewhat when planing?

[Phil Thien]

How does the glue stay molten long enough for you to add all the dollops over a large board?

A large glob actually takes a while to set-up. It is when the stuff gets spread thinly that it tends to cool and harden faster.

I've only done a 5' long board, I have no doubt I'd be able to duplicate this on 8' boards.

If the glue starts setting-up too fast, make larger globs.

[Phil Thien]

Interesting, Phil. Doesn't the glue remain flexible when dried and compress somewhat when planing?

The glue does remain somewhat flexible. But it doesn't compress much. You can experiment yourself by playing with a stick of the glue. You can bend it. But you can't squeeze it out of round very easily.

For boards with really large (3/8" or 1/2") bows in the middle, double or even triple trigger pull globs may be necessary to have enough glue to fill those gaps. I haven't tried anything yet with a real horrendous bow. The boards I was using last night had bows of about 3/16" to 1/4".

If you look in the first picture I posted, you can see in about the middle of the photo two glue globs, one on either side of the board. One spread out quite a bit, the other has a smaller diameter because it filled a larger gap under the board. That spot was probably almost 1/4". Next time I'd do a 1-1/2 or 2 pulls in a spot like that. The board planed perfectly, but more glue wouldn't have hurt.

[Alan Schwabacher]

That sounds good. While I like scraps as shims in the larger gaps to minimize the glue used, one advantage to using larger blobs of hot glue is that they will stay hot longer, giving you more time to set up. Just make sure the leading and trailing edges are well supported. Maybe your hot glue is better than mine: I never had any difficulty removing glue without tape. And if you are using the glue as the shim, any that remained on your sled could be reactivated for the next board simply by heating with the tip of the glue gun.

You could try gluing the leading and trailing ends, and using loose thin wedges along the sides. That might be quicker and sufficiently stable to move into place.

[Ben Hatcher]

Nice solution, Phil. I wonder if you could just shim the board to your sled to get it level/prevent rocking and then just squeeze hot glue into the gaps.

[Phil Thien]

You could try gluing the leading and trailing ends, and using loose thin wedges along the sides. That might be quicker and sufficiently stable to move into place.

I think if the sled were stiffer, you would be right. But I want to keep the sled thin and light-weight because I'm carrying it from the bench to the planer, and then back and forth from planer outfeed to planer infeed. So the 1/2" sled can flex a little bit, which allows shims to shift.

I also really like the way the glue fills the gap without any guesswork on my part.

It does use as much as a stick of glue for a 5' long board. OTOH, glue is a lot less expensive than lumber, and I'll figure out a way to recycle the glue. Plus I don't do this a ton.

[Phil Thien]

Nice solution, Phil. I wonder if you could just shim the board to your sled to get it level/prevent rocking and then just squeeze hot glue into the gaps.

I think that might actually take longer and possibly produce a less consistent result.

[Doug Herzberg]

Don't know how I missed this thread, but I have it now and it is making my life much easier. Thanks, Phil.