Tool mistakes?

[Per Swenson]

We have heard about what tools we
would like to purchase. We have commented on
the best tools out there.
How about some comments on the purchases
that where just plain dogs. Or maybe did not live up
to our expectations and advertising hype.
I can think of two that gather dust on my shelves,
and a whole bunch more that where impulse buys but
insignificant.
1. Porter cable detail sander. Always leaves black marks
from the rubber.
2. Bosch fine cut powered hand saw with mitre table.
Its personal, I can't stand the thing.

This may be the shortest thread in sawmill creek history
Then again...........

Per

[Warren White]

I like this thread!

I have found myself at the Woodworking shows thinking "That is way cool!" and buying stuff I never use. Board Buddies were one of those purchases; never figured how to attach them to my fence. Reading your post, I recall I bought a detail sander because I thought it would help my daughter refinish her sewing cabinet. Might have helped a little, but not as much as it cost. I also bought some sort of a small sled-like device to use with a router table. Never figured out how to use it. My absolute worst purcase was also at a WW show: I bought an extension router table to mount on my table saw. The 'inventor' was at the show and this thing was built like a battleship; heavy cast iron. Problem was the bottom of the table was ribbed and there was no way you could safely and securely mount a router to it. I kept it for 6 months and took it back at the next show. Inventor-guy was no longer with the company, but they took it right back; no problems. My last in this category was a lock miter bit which scares the crimminey out of me when I try to use it.

Hopefully I have learned and when I go to the shows now, I decide in advance what I need or want. No more impulse buys just because the demonstrators make it look like the best thing since sliced bread (which is, after all their job). I have bought some things there that I really like, but that is another thread....

Warren

[Rob Russell]

Dewalt Radial Arm Saw. It's just a rebadged Black & Decker. It's not a "real" Dewalt RAS. Move it off of 90* square and you need to use a framing square to requare the head to the fence, because the detent isn't accurate. I suppose it'd be fine for rough cutting lumber.

[Greg Mann]

Festool powered handplane. It's very well made and all that, I planned on using it for the odd trimming jobs, bad fitting doors and such. It became redundant when I bought the Festool saw and rail system. I keep thinking a good use will pop up one of these days.Greg

[Bill Neely]

Delta Hollow Chisel Mortiser - this was Delta's first version. I had it for about 4 months and I wanted it out of my shop, I detested it:mad:. I like routed mortises much better and as soon as I can afford one, I'm buying a horizontal mortising machine.

Jessem Rout R Slide router table, I think this was their first product and they no longer make it. It was actually only good for finger joints and dovetails - especially sliding dts. Not good for any other kind of table routing because of the large hole around the bit and the slot in the table. I don't have space nor can I afford to have two stationary router tables in my shop - out it went.

[Stephen Dixon]

Delta Drill Press Morticing attachment, It was such a pain to install and set-up that I broke down and bought a Jet JBM-5 Morticer.
Steve

[Jim McCarty]

RotoZip. Bought one. Tried it. Returned it.

[Roger Barga]

Over-priced workbench from Garrett Wade, which warped when the weather changed and the tail vise locked up. My basic workbench is still my favorite.
roger

[John Renzetti]

Second vote on that Delta mortising attachment for the drill press.
Never have liked my Delta 17" drill press.

[scott spencer]

Hhhmmm....how about a B&D jigsaw that gets most of it's cutting action from the vibration? If the blade wasn't sharp steel, it'd qualify as a toy or an industriall HSE hazard to carpal tunnel!

I got a cheap Japanese style foil pull saw. I wrinkled it like it was made of aluminum foil in about 3 minutes! ...American paws vs Chinese made imitation Japanese saw was a mismatch. If I ever get another, it'l have some blade support to it.

I've got several smaller inexpensive machines that aren't wonderful, but that have met my lower expectations and were just about worth the purchase price: Ryobi 9" BS ($99), HF mortiser ($99), Homier 4" stationary belt sander ($49), Griz 8" DP ($69).

[Doug Shepard]

PC Detail Sander (wanna buy mine?)

Craftsman Contractor TS. Thankfully, it's now haunting someone else's shop. I guess I got my money's worth out of it as a starter machine, but fence adjustment took forever. Had to repeatedly check and recheck distance to the blade at both the back and front of the fence. Of course locking the fence would cause it to shift so you'd have to persuade it into parallel with a dead-blow hammer for fine adjustment. Ended up picking up one of those parallel fence setting gauges that helped, but that saw was a bear to set up for cuts parallel to the blade. The parallel guage now sits gathering dust - should have let it go to the guy that bought the saw. Haven't needed it since switching to a PM66.

Craftsman Right Angle Jig. Worst piece of junk I ever bought. Unloaded it at my last garage sale. It should have been labeled Craftsman Wrong Angle Jig. The thing was around 88 degrees to the table. Plus - even though supposedly sized for Craftsman's undersized miter bar slots - the bar was extremely sloppy in the slot.

Not bashing Craftsman as a whole. I've got some other stuff of theirs that are fine. But those two items were pretty much dogs.

[Tony Falotico]

PC Detail Sander (wanna buy mine?)

PM me an offer with details or pics............

[Silas Smith]

Two words Delta Shopmaster. I have the 6" benchtop and table top shaper. I now have the DJ-20 and a 3 hp delta shaper. Hopefully I can unload the former two in the next garage sale. I feel guilty selling them though

[Darren Ford]

I've seen these type threads before, and until now, the winner 100% of the time as worst tool purchase has been the rotozip. Its interesting to see the PC detail sander getting such abuse, I have always heard from people who love them.

Very interesting though, these threads save me alot of money :)

[Corey Hallagan]

Yes, I like this thread to. I have had many Craftsman tools. Some were or are great, others were total dogs. I bought a craftsman contractors saw. It was a step up for sure from my little 8 inch benchtop that I totally wore out. I used the Craftsman CS for less than 3 years.nothing but pine 3/4 .... the motor burned up.. Really torqured me off. I sold it off cheap. So have been basically without a table saw for approx two years... bought the Delta 36-675 at Home Depot for 399 about six weeks ago. Another step up for me. Hopefully... I won' t regret that purchase!!

Corey

[Mark Singer]

My old Delta contractors saw comes to mind....the fence was never parallel to the blade...just a very bad old design. It was pretty unsafe...

[Tyler Howell]

Cman contractor TS. Got more use and better satisfaction out of my Cman RAS:eek: . Live and learn:o

[Per Swenson]

Here is another, complete with dust.
It is called a rip-strate.
Some day I may find a use for it.
Maybe in sculpture class.
Per

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Being that I am in business with my tools, I have a long list of failures....I've had two PC 333 ROS's that failed, anything and everything I ever bought from Sears & Ryobi, two failed Milwaukee drills, an 18ga. pin nailer from HF and a Skil belt sander that died. In all fairness the Skil belt sander was 6 years old when it bit the dust and I really used that thing hard.

Even better....things that haven't failed have come from Bosch, De Walt, The old Ridgid, Delta & PC, Grizzly and Makita. I think the 333 ROS failures were well documented as a batch failure, so it didn't affect my purchasing of the Delta & PC products.

[Ralph Steffey]

every crapman power tool I ever bought

[Bob Powers]

Tom,
I would suggest that you call Osborne Mfg. Co. at 1-800-852-9655. They are in Williamsport PA. I had a problem with my EB-3, and originally called Excaliber, the actual manufacturer, for help to no avail. Osborne got after Excaliber, the problem was resolved at no cost to me, and the EB-3 works perfectly.

[Jay Knepper]

Great thread idea. I really hate to waste money, space, and clutter on a useless tool. My worst buys:

Veritas variable burnisher for scrapers: I much prefer their straight rod burnisher

Taper cutting jig--the common $20 or so version that is basically a big hinge. Broke out in a sweat every time I used it. Dedicated scrap wood jigs are much better--safer and more versitile.

Tenon cutter for table saw that rides in a miter guage slot. (Mine is from Woodcraft, but they are all the same). I prefer a home made L-shaped jig that I slide against the rip fence that is much faster and easier to set up and use.

I'm beginning to hate my Akeda dovetail jig. I get inconsistent results (probably because I'm inconsistent in how I use it and don't do so often, but possibly because the fully extended, 1/4" shank bits chatter so badly in use with 3/4" material).

Things I almost bought and am most proud of not buying:
A hollow chisel mortiser. A router is so nice for this job!

[Mike Cutler]

I was kinda chicken to respond to this thread last nite, "cause toyls are so personal, but here goes.
#3 on the list. The Incra 2000 Miter. Believe it or not I still use this all the time, but I don't like it, I had to remachine the L brackets, stuff a piece of aluminum square stock down it for stiffness. The stops are a real pain, and there really is no micro adjust feature. The 1000 was a much better miter, and a lot cheaper.The flip stops were a huge improvement.

#2. Rousseau router plate. I want my router tables to be dead flat. I never could get past that designed crown to allow the material to "float". Those little rings in the middle were a real pain also.

#1 Router speed control unit. This thing loped so much, you could have used it to explain the Doppler effect. It also vibrated itself out of control if you tried to mount it to a table. It came with a belt clip, but the bits you would use it for all had to run at lower speeds due to size, and had to be mounted in a table router.

Well that's my list. I keep these items as a visual reminder to myself to think about what I really need. The Incra Miter I keep as a form of penance I think. :rolleyes:

[Eric Apple - Central IN]

Porter Cable router and jigsaw. 2 routers less then 1 yr old and one is dead, the jig saw base plate broke off the saw in about 10 months.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Guys,
Sorry but I think this takes the cake. Ready are you all sitting down, get ready to laugh...........Porter Cable Bammer.....the worst tool ever invented IMHO :eek:

[Richard Danckaert]

Like others,the PC detail sander and most of the craftsman tools I own.

Cheers,

Rich

[Bob Johnson]

The PC detail sander. I gave it to a friend (He's still a friend). I think he gave it to an enemy.

Bob

[Jack Hogoboom]

I have two favorites:

First is that accordian-looking thing in all the catalogs for dividing a piece of wood into equal segments. Bought it before I read the trick about angling a ruler. :mad:

Second is the angle guide I bought for my circular saw. Still can't figure out why anyone would need it. Didn't stop me from buying it though. :rolleyes:

Jack

[JayStPeter]

Most of my mistakes are small cheap things. But two things stand out.

First is the Rousseau router plate. The thing was crowned and wouldn't cut tight joints with the Incra system. Even worse, it's a big plate so I had to make a new table when I replaced it.

Second is my drill press. I chose a used Delta 14" over a new Grizzly. Bad move, I hate the thing. It vibrates like crazy, even with link belts. The chuck is junk and the depth setting mechanism poor. A new chuck would probably make it better, but I'm hesitant to throw money into something I don't plan on keeping forever. Unfortunately, I'll be stuck with it for a while.

Jay

[Sam Blasco]

PC Detail Sander, except when I bought mine, it was an open box, missing two profiles, and I asked to see the manager to try and get it for 20% discount. The manager agreed, and I went to my shop feeling like a savvy negotiator. When I got back to the shop I noticed some black marker writing on the side -- "30% Off, Missing parts." I laughed pretty hard at myself. It only took me using it one time to realize how badly I had done. It is horrible as a profile sander, but so-so for flat work and getting into corners.

[Robby Phelps]

Good thread. My additions would be...


#1 Rigid oscillating spindle sander

#2 DeWalt 18v cordless drill. Now i have a Bosch and will never go back.

[Harry Goodwin]

On that rotozip put a cut off wheel in the 2" variety and cut metal bolts and metal generally. Forget the wood.

[Harry Goodwin]

Use that useless rotozip with 2" cut off wheel for bolts and metal. Forget the wood.

[Jeremy Bracey]

I love this.

1: Rouseau router plate. Worst router table plate ever. It looks like a rainbow.
2: 12" Delta benchtop drill press: more expensive than a HF floor model and less precise.
3: Craftsman router
4: skill router (I should have learned after the craftsman router to spend the big moneyh)
5: b&D jig saw. My arm is still vibrating from the time I used it 6 months ago!

[Colin Gilkes]

Rotozip - they can't give 'em away now - shame, means nobody wants mine

Wolfcraft Lathe thingummyjig - what a crock, very dangerous, doesn't clamp to the bench at all well.

Maybe I could offload them both on ebay:D

[Per Swenson]

Ahh, it's humbling.
Electric staple guns.
It took me 4 trys to
find that the only electric staple guns
worth buying are the industrial carpet ones
for about $200. Anything else is junk.
Now for impulse stupid, I am sure every one
else here has a substantial investment in tools
that need constant sharpening. I do.
So why in Gods little green acres did I
buy this is beyond me.
Oh I forgot it was on sale.

[Mike Cutler]

Ya' know what the funny thing is about this thread? Some of the tools on folks list, are tools I like :eek: I like my 12" benchtop Delta drillpress. I got it set up with an Incra drillpress tableworks great, of course I have a Bridgeport at my disposal, with machinist support for the complicated stuff.
My Delta tablesaw tenon jig sat for years until I made myself pull it out and fix it up,and correct some design defeciencies, now I like it. I still don't buy the .003 slop in the miter slot is intentional, but it tightems up just fine with a People magazine page( the cover is too thick ;)
I've never seen this detail sander everyone posts about. I may have to go buy one to be part of the club. And I have no idea what a "Bammer" is :rolleyes:

[Jack Wood]

Anything Black and Decker makes. A 12 inch Delta bandsaw, not that it's a bad saw per se, but all of the good accesories are for 9" and 14" saws and I now realize that I should have bought a larger saw so that I could resaw, the 12" isn't made to have an riser added so I'm stuck with only 6" of clearance.:( I made the same error with the delta 16" scroll saw. I now own a 20" DeWalt which is frojm another planet compared to the Delta, gave the Delta to friend. Bottom line is that I now will spend some time researching my next tool buy, and will buy more machine that I think I need at the moment. Better to have more capacity than you can use than not to have and then wind up buying a better tool later on, so you're out the first cash and the last.:mad:

[J E (Jim) Martin]

Delta sharpening station. when it work's, it's fair to bad the rest of the time it's a high priced low end grinder Dollar Store stuff could blow away.. :o

[Mark Singer]

Cheap brad point bits....they look blurry when the run and make eliptiical holes...

[John Hart]

The Craftsman 3D Sander. Totally cool...till it burned up after a week. Sears engineers told me I was using wrong. Too much pressure they say. So I bought another. Burned up after 3 days...and I babied it the whole time.

I like Craftsman...but that thing needs a redesign.

[Harry Goodwin]

If no other means available rotozip with a 2" cutting wheel will cut metal or bolts like butter. I never used my mortiser for drill press either.

[Harry Goodwin]

pardon the repetition I'll get it right some day. Thanks for your patience.

[Cliff Newton]

1. Black and Decker orbital sander- I think someone bought this for me at Toys-R-Us.
2. I forget the name, but that orange thing that is supposed to hold down a table saw blade while you loosen or tighten the nut. I gave up on it and still just use a block of wood.

[Rich Konopka]

I'm with Mark and Tyler and I would have to say that my Delta Contractor Saw is my worst purchase. It was a pain to assemble due to missing parts and bad instructions, It has no dust collecting capabilities, It is a pain to tune, and it collects rust when my other tools doesn't.

I also have to say that my 9.6V B&D and Dewalt Drills are POS. They have held up okay for the 10+ years I owned them but they are always and I mean always slipping gears. I have to diasasemble then and reengage the gears every time this happens. I now use them for mixing paint with a spinner and collecting dust. I love my Panasonic Drill and Makita impact driver.

[Jim Dunn]

Per what did you not like about the little grinder you bought. I purchased one for $10.00:eek: from a big box on closeout. I thought if nothing else I could use it to sharpen pencils with:). But seriously, is it good for anything as far as sharpening tools with?:confused:

[Per Swenson]

Its good for sharpening my sons collection
of imported folding knifes. Or anything else
you don't want a sharp edge on. Maybe I am
being to elitist and harsh here and maybe in
better skilled hands its a wonderful....no I am lying
I think its junk, the stone wears way to fast to
keep a proper angle in the tool rest. The speed
on mine is inconsistent and the water bath nonsense
is sloppy. I can get better results from a polished
concrete floor. Sorry Delta, you make some great
stuff. What posesed them to stick their name on
this harry the homeowner piece of garbage in
their quest for profits is beyond me.
Per

[Brian Hale]

The Grizzly $39 angle/bevel protractor. Total piece of junk

Shopsmith MKIV

Craftsman router crafter. Bought it about 15 years ago for $100 so that i could "Easily Make Spiral Table Legs With Your Craftsman Router" I keep it standing in the corner of the shop to remind myself to think before i buy :o

Almost forgot... The Craftsman wet sharp machine, similar to the delta pictured up further. :mad:

Brian :)

[Jim Stastny]

My worst buy had to be a box joint jig sold by the father and son team that does the router workshop. It's not that the jig was bad. However, when I saw what I bought I realized I could have made a better jig for one tenth the price. Add to that the fact in the four years I've owned it I've used it three maybe four times.

Contrary to others I love my Delta Contractors saw. Dust collection is easily taken care of by placing a fitted box under the table. I find my Unifence to be "dead on" acurate. With a Forrest blade and link belt the saw is excellent.

[Tom Pritchard]

As I sat back today and read this thread, I had a disturbing thought. One of the main reasons that I thoroughly enjoy Saw Mill Creek is the polite, courteous, and respectful manner that the participants treat each other in. The notes in this particular thread have the potential to really make someone feel bad that has had good luck with a tool that someone else speaks poorly of. It may be the best tool they can afford, and they may be offended to the point of possibly leaving the Creek. That would be a terrible thing. Some of the tools listed in this thread may be someone's favorite tool, and maybe the application or expectations of someone else put their favorite in a bad light and upset them. I know that these things are not our intent, but it may be their impact.

There are other forums out there that I won't even visit for some of these same reasons. Maybe we should think about withholding some of our opinions, and try to lend help as it is needed, regardless of the tool in question. I know that I'm going back and erasing my post. Thanks for letting me voice my reflection folks.

[Carole Valentine]

Basically, everything I ever bought that was cheap...Craftsman belt/disk sander, Craftsman 6" grinder, Skill jig saw, B&D plunge router, an 18v "Motor City" drill...well you get the idea. It took me a long time, but I finally got it through my thick head that 99% of the time, cheap tools are just an aggravation and a waste of money. The one exception to that has been my $74 Woodcraft slow speed 8" grinder. That grinder is wonderful. It's quiet as a mouse and so vibration free that I can balance a nickle on it when it it running. I understand though, that others have not been so lucky.

[Jim Becker]

I would have to say that the my worst purchase was also, in one important way, the best one. It was a Sears Craftsman $200 table saw back in about 1996. I only owned it for about six months before coming to my senses about how, umm..."inadequate" it was...and selling it for bupkus, but it did start me down the road of turning woodworking into my serious avocation and taught me an important tool buying lesson that I often recite in these pages: "The most expensive power tools are the ones you need to replace early and often."

And honestly, I've been very fortunate to have had the means to be able to go down a different path since then, both with my first generation of "good" power tools and into the second, as well as with the quality hand tools, both corded and human powered since then. Those tools that I have turned over for the "next level" brought me a lot of value and also brought me back an above average return when I resold them to other woodworkers. In other words, I made better investments. (And enjoyed them a whole lot better, too...)

[John Hart]

[QUOTE=Tom Pritchard]As I sat back today and read this thread, I had a disturbing thought....

Ya know Tom, I had the very same thought, and I pondered it for quite some time and then I posted my displeasure about the Craftsman 3D sander. My motive was that of awareness(buyer beware) rather than tool bashing. Mainly because I too have been strapped for money and had to get the best thing that I could afford...which usually, I was too embarrassed to show to anyone. For instance, I will say that I like my Craftsman tools....but I've taken a lot of heat for that because a lot of people don't like Craftsman. It used to hurt my feelings but nowadays I don't care. I remember way back when...An older gentleman said, "Your tools are an extention of you...it is you, that creates the piece, so just use the tool as if it were an arm or a hand". That told me that even a tool that is cumbersome for some people, may turn out to be ideal for others. I know my table saw like the back of my hand and I will happily use it for many years to come even though it doesn't have a super-deluxe precision fence or a 40,000 HP motor. I like the stuff I have...even the crappy stuff.

So I agree with you Tom that this thread can be hurtful in the way you stated. But I also say that folks should do their best with what they have and remember that there are a lot of superb woodworkers out there that create masterpieces with nothing but handtools.

Oh...and when Craftsman redesigns their 3D sander...I'll buy one.

[Walt Pater]

I bought an $77.00 Turbo CAD deluxe program, thinking I could e-mail draw-ups to people. User's manual might as well be in Swahili. Wrong program to start out on.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

As I sat back today and read this thread, I had a disturbing thought. One of the main reasons that I thoroughly enjoy Saw Mill Creek is the polite, courteous, and respectful manner that the participants treat each other in. The notes in this particular thread have the potential to really make someone feel bad that has had good luck with a tool that someone else speaks poorly of. It may be the best tool they can afford, and they may be offended to the point of possibly leaving the Creek. That would be a terrible thing. Some of the tools listed in this thread may be someone's favorite tool, and maybe the application or expectations of someone else put their favorite in a bad light and upset them. I know that these things are not our intent, but it may be their impact.

There are other forums out there that I won't even visit for some of these same reasons. Maybe we should think about withholding some of our opinions, and try to lend help as it is needed, regardless of the tool in question. I know that I'm going back and erasing my post. Thanks for letting me voice my reflection folks.

I understand what you are saying Tom. In fact, I've had good success with some of the tools others have mentioned, but I think it'd be a mistake to withold your honest opinion of a tool just because you might offend someone. We're all adults here and as long as the conversation stays civil I see no reason we can't discuss tools that did't work for us for whatever reason. In fact, I seem to recall some of the most contentious "debates" have been about tools people were bragging on!

[Glenn Clabo]

Tom,
You expressed exactly what I was thinking. I'm also having that uneasy feeling when people put down tools that are the same ones that people buy for economic reasons...and some who do amazing work for a living use. I like tools...but find people think that more expensive/fancy/accurate is going to make them better woodworkers. I was taught by people who didn't put much stock in the price of the tool but in the skill of the craftsman. There's too many kitchens...additions...decks to count in New England and Virginia that were built with many of the tools that people call crap(sman) in this tread. It's the same as discussing cars...stereo's...camera's...wifes/husbands...

[Bill Lewis]

I think I am fortunate to have a relatively short list, or just a short memory. Here are a couple of stand-outs:

1. Rosette cutter from WWS, thought I could make my own Rosettes (door/window trim) for my last house remodel. No speed, fast or slow, or soft/hard wood worked with even close to satisfactory results. Absolute junk.

2. Delta Drill press moticer. I got it in a pkg deal with the drill press, so I didn't "buy" it. I have only tried it a few times, with poor results. Might look to upgrade both in the future. Would really like a VS press instead.

[Darren Ford]

I don't see the problem here. I've seen tools listed here that I have, some might have been a bad purchase for me as well, others might be working out pretty well. Its a tool we are talking about. If it works for me, or if it was all I could afford, it does not bother me one bit that it did not meet the needs or the expectations of someone else.

I personally have a $10 Harbor Freight 18v cordless drill that I think the world of. Will it stand up to the use that some of you put one through? No way. Does it work for what I need? Absolutely, and alot better than the drill it replaced.

The difference on this forum is that we are keeping the discussion on the tool, I will bet you that we can discuss this all week and not see a condescending remark or personal attack.

To get back on topic, its hard for me to think of the worst one, but the ones I have the most aggravation from are the cheap trade-day crescent wrenches and pliers. I don't think I have ever used them when I did not make a mental note to throw them away as soon as I was done (of course I don't, or haven't yet).

[John Seiffer]

Great thread. The key to making it useful - not a b%tch session - is to explain why a tool didn't work for you. That helps me know if my circumstances are different enough from yours.

I tried board buddy rollers on a Ryobi Bt3100 Table saw. Couldn't figure out a way to mount them where they wouldn't get in the way of everything.

I have a craftsman router table that I hate - just haven't had the time to build one. The plate doesn't sit right and the aluminum table has ridges that catch on wood.

I got a Ridgid 12" sliding mitre saw on sale last year. I do like it - it's solid and powerful. But it's really too big and I paid extra for the model with the laser marker and it's off by an amount that varies with the height of the wood I'm cutting so that was a waste of money.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I completely and humbly disagree. I only posted to this thread in hopes of helping someone else avoid a mistake that I have made. I think we're way too worried about offending people these days when we should be worried about helping others that have like minded interests.

I have to agree with Darren, I have yet to see a remark made towards another person as a personal attack (like the everyday attacks elsewhere).

The point is not what someone can build with a tool that's considered low quality to me or you, I've built plenty of things with bad tools and they all look pretty good. The point is to help people get the best tool for the money over the long run so that the tool lasts through many projects whether they be professional or hobby oriented.

If anyone gets offended by a thread like this, it's a personal issue. I have read many bad things about Grizzly, but I bought two of their tools and love both. Reading that others don't like them doesn't bother me a bit.

Someone said it's just like cars and trucks. I prefer the older models...one's I can work on myself. I know this isn't for everyone, just like a certain brand isn't.

My point is that I won't tiptoe through my posts to make sure I'm not offending anyone. Personally I don't want any part of a forum that doesn't tell it like it is. I want honesty when I ask about tools from people who have used them. I don't have to agree with or follow this advice to the letter, that's when personal preference and common sense enter the game. Looking over this thread I don't see any problems whatsoever. As long as no one breaks the rules and starts bashing someone personally because they use a certain tool, it's all good.

[Jim Becker]

As I happened to mention "that brand" in my post, I'd like to clarify that I could have just said "inexpensive $200 table saw". The inexpensive and "inadequate" part is what is important to my personal message, not the brand--any $200 table saw would have given me the same, umm...satisfaction. But like millions of folks, my early purchases had that label simply because I didn't even know much about other brands or frankly, where to buy them locally at the time. It was only after that experience that I discovered the local Woodcraft, my favorite tool dealer Woodworker's Haven and subscribed to WOOD Magazine. It's all part of the learning experience.

"It's not what you say but how you say it."

[Arnie Grammon]

I couldn't agree more. We are not attacking the individual that bought the tool at all.

My all-time useless tool was a Jet Mortiser Drill Press Attachment. The thing got in the way, was poorly designed, and didn't have the leverage to go through Ponderosa Pine. Even the bits were dull from the factory.

The 17" drill press was/is fine however.

I have about the worst detail sander made.....a Ryobi. I can't believe I spent real money on it. I have never used it past the first time. The thing doesn't sand at all......it just buzzes. It sits on the shelf gathering dust and waiting for my next blowout garage sale. If someone buys it for 5 bucks I'll feel bad for them.

Good thread......like Jim, I've learned from my poor tool purchases way more than those that are my everyday slam dunk good purchases.

Arnie

[Wes Newman]

Skil Jigsaw and Skil ROS. The Jigsaw wouldn't cut perpedicular if it's life depended on it, and next time I use it, I think it's life may depend on it. The ROS vibrates like crazy and my hand herts everytime I use it. Can barely hold it still to do any small work.

[Bob Hovde]

PM me an offer with details or pics............

Tony,

Save your money and buy a Fein. I'd sell you my PC also. How many do you need? (Actually, I use the different shaped tips a lot for finish work - just not attached to the machine.)

Bob

[Maurice Ungaro]

My worst purchase to date (note: I'm not done buying yet...) would have to be the PC router table. While I'll give the thing high marks for being constructed of stout metal, the overall function of the piece is only about so-so. Couldn't get beyond the ribbed deck, which seemed to want to catch things.

Is this a bad product? No...just not for me, as I tend to be a bit "picky" about things I pay for. Could be a good "user" for the jobsite, or for the occassional woodworker. I've replaced it with the BenchDog router table extension for my TS.

Maurice

[craig caldwell]

I'm gona have to go with the pc detail sander as well... What were we thinking?
A close 2nd would be my pc corded drill. I don't know if any of you are familliar with porter cables first attempt at a keyless chuck but it is a beautiful stainless steel piece and apparently buying it seperatly it used to cost about a hundred bucks.
Basicly the thing works by holding down the trigger and then hanging onto the chuck and letting it ratchet/vibrate until your hand goes numb to get your bit tite... kind of. Then when you are done put the drill in reverse and repeat. It doesn't work unless the drill is at full speed and you hang on real tight. Now for the best part, when the bit finaly does come loose the direction of ejection is completly random. If I haven't been wearing my safty glasses for what ever reason they are certanly on now. I might even put on my hearing protection depending on how tight I think the bit is. O, and it is imposible to remove a bit with out having the drill pluged in. I'm still using it today 8 years after the inital purchase.
Why won't you die!!!

craig caldwell

[Steve Cox]

I think I'm like Jim Becker, my worst was also one of my best. My wife wanted a mirror for Christmas and I figured I could buy the tools and build one for the price of a mirror and I'd have the tools left. It worked for the most part. The mirror we still have and she still loves it ( I cringe when I look at it :) ). The main tool purchased was a Craftsman router w/ their table. It worked well for a while but the depth adjustment was never very good and finally it died. 1/4" collet, no power and absolutely huge! It was the best in that I was able to get started in Woodworking with it but it wasn't a good tool.

[Dan Gill]

Harbor Freight pad sander. Worst $10 I ever spent. :D

[John Hart]

heh heh...you just reminded me...I bought a mini-lathe from Harbor Freight. I already have a full-sized lathe but thought this thing looked fun. I turned it on and it scared me to death. Is it normal to stick a chisel on something rotating 18,000 RPM? I still haven't used it...that was 2 years ago.

[Hal Flynt]

Another Rotozip vote.

I do have one positive. I broke a spiral bit trying to cut a circle in some 1/8" hardboard and replaced it with a 1/4 " upcut spiral router bit and it made a significant improvement.

[Ernie Hobbs]

Black & Decker jig saw- $19 at Lowes and not worth a nickel. I have seen a lot of references to B&D in this thread. This is what disturbs me about Delta and PC going over to them. Is this the future of those brands?

[George Matthews]

One of the new, too good to be true Craftsman 10" table saws is my most recent blunder. The one I owned for only six weeks took most of the day to assemble, and I could tell during assembly that I got what I paid for (under $250).

I could not easily cut with repeatable accuracy. The motor was noisy and the extension arms that came with it were rickity. The HP rating was a joke.

I had only cut 1/2 MDF and pine and the motor exploded. Yes exploded! I suspect the direct drive gears were just not assembled/manufactured well. The HP ratings on motors are a joke as far as I can tell.

I took the saw back. I was prepared to purchase a 'professional' grade saw, but this store and others in the region didn't stock them. I suspect there is little market for them? There is such price pressure on these distributors.

I eventually found a '76 Crafstman 10' cast iron beast on eBay for only $160. It's certainly no beauty, but so much better quality! The fence is a bear to align, and I'll replace it some day... if I have to... I think.

The point is that Craftsman/Delta/x have sold a huge range of quality over the years, and it's possible to get good quality tools, but rarely for what seems like a bargain.

[Dave Avery]

Ryobi BT3000

[Corey Hallagan]

Tom, I totally understand what you are saying. Let's face it, this thread would not be able to exsist on many other sites, one in particular that I can think of as the majority of posters are just sooooo freindly and helpful ( being sarcastic) that I don't even bother going there anymore. There a few that are helpful there, but no one is under the ridicule radar. I found Saw Creek Mill and call this my home now.

With regards to low priced or budget tools, let's face it, most of us wouldn't have been able to get into woodworking if it hadn't been for Black and Decker, Skill, Craftsman etc. My first series of tools were almost all Craftsman. My very first tablesaw was an 8 inch craftsman. I thought I was in heaven and proud as could be of it. I made the clock I poster earlier with it and a ton more, in fact I made enough with that saw doing craft shows 14-15 years ago that I paid for almost everything in my shop. I plain wore it out and used it for about 8 years.... granted it was all pine material and I didn't make stuff from hardwood. When I did get a new one, I went with a craftsman contractors saw that I paid around $350.00. I thought I was on top of the world. I would still be using that saw today, however, I was incredibley dissapointed when the motor went out with less than 3 years a very little use. That is why I lable that saw as my worst tool I ever bought.... mostly out of dissapointment. I take very good care of my tools and don't like it when one dies! Anyway, if I offended anyone out there, my apologies. Glad to be a part of this website.

Corey

[Frank Pellow]

Delta 15" Scroll Saw that operates only with pinned blades. I never did mange to learn how to change the blades properly and I broke about 2/3 of the blades that I tried to install. I still have the thing but have not tried to use it for about 5 years. :(

[Frank Pellow]

As I sat back today and read this thread, I had a disturbing thought. One of the main reasons that I thoroughly enjoy Saw Mill Creek is the polite, courteous, and respectful manner that the participants treat each other in. The notes in this particular thread have the potential to really make someone feel bad that has had good luck with a tool that someone else speaks poorly of. It may be the best tool they can afford, and they may be offended to the point of possibly leaving the Creek. That would be a terrible thing. Some of the tools listed in this thread may be someone's favorite tool, and maybe the application or expectations of someone else put their favorite in a bad light and upset them. I know that these things are not our intent, but it may be their impact.

There are other forums out there that I won't even visit for some of these same reasons. Maybe we should think about withholding some of our opinions, and try to lend help as it is needed, regardless of the tool in question. I know that I'm going back and erasing my post. Thanks for letting me voice my reflection folks.
I beg to disagree with you Tom. In this thread, people are giving their honest opinions about tools that they have found to be less than adequate. Since they are honest opinions formed upon experience, no one should take offence with them. In my opinion, it is dangerous to withhold negative opinions and experiences -that verges upon censorship.

I like this thread very much!

[JayStPeter]

I purposely did not include the early cheap tools that I started with. They've been replaced. But, I don't consider any of them mistakes. They all did a job at a time when I really didn't need better. No regrets there as I wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for the positive experiences of building those early projects.
The tools I mentioned, I do regret buying.

Jay

[Per Swenson]

I am really impressed with the number of views on this
thread. I also understand why some may find it inappropriate
to point out shortcommings of tools they think the world of.
In retrospect, so far this thread has 3464 views. It should be
a wake up call to the tool companys that the buying public
has a collective voice. If we were buying cars my mailbox
would be full of recall notices. Lets take that detail sander for instance,
the very same unimproved version is still for sale in the local big box.
Why? It is a name brand tool. In 10 years didn't anyone tell them? I think one or two bad apples does
refelect on the quality of the tree.
Really folks its the 21st century, we are still buying rewrapped designs
from the 1950s. I needed another table saw, I was going to order a PM66,
I bought a sawstop, not because it won't cut a hotdog,because it is the
best built saw of this size out there.
Its sad, and it burns my redneck patriotic heart, that I sent over
4000 American dollars to Germany.(festool) But if thats what I have to do,
to get the quality I need ,so be it.
So listen up tool makers, stop resting on your laurels.
The internet has created a powerful force. A educated consumer.
Thank you all.

[Bob Marino]

I beg to disagree with you Tom. In this thread, people are giving their honest opinions about tools that they have found to be less than adequate. Since they are honest opinions formed upon experience, no one should take offence with them. In my opinion, it is dangerous to withhold negative opinions and experiences -that verges upon censorship.

I like this thread very much!
Frank,

Very well stated.

Bob

[Darren Ford]

Its sad, and it burns my redneck patriotic heart, that I sent over
4000 American dollars to Germany.(festool)

If it would help your conscience, you could send $4K to Alabama to make up for it. I'll PM you my address.

Money well spent to sleep well at night. :)

[Brian Jarnell]

Well chaps joined tonight and have had some good laughs,thank you all.

[scott spencer]

Tom, I totally understand what you are saying. Let's face it, this thread would not be able to exsist on many other sites, one in particular that I can think of as the majority of posters are just sooooo freindly and helpful ( being sarcastic) that I don't even bother going there anymore. There a few that are helpful there, but no one is under the ridicule radar. I found Saw Creek Mill and call this my home now.
Corey Hi Corey....had to laugh when I read your statement....Tom and I call that unnamed site the "mosh pit"...he's not comfortable posting there either. Although I do like the pace and the action, they're not often civil enough to have a good discussion like this without thing getting out of hand. I think alot of the probs start out as laugh that goes too far or gets misinterpreted...lots of printed statements do. With the requirement of real names, good moderation, and often a pic to go with the name, the folks here are amazingly well behaved and accommodating. Good crowd even if you've got a few stinkers in your tool collection! (...and Lord knows that I do!)

[Mark Singer]

Welcome Brian!

We even have fun talking about bad tool choices...we have all made them...why not talk....you feel better


Well chaps joined tonight and have had some good laughs,thank you all.

[Frank Pellow]

Well chaps joined tonight and have had some good laughs,thank you all.
Welcome to Saw Mill Creek Brian. I hope that you find this site as helpful (and, yes, sometimes humorous) as I have done. It will be interesting to get information and opinions from New Zealand. So, please be an active member.

[Mark Riegsecker]

For years I've harbored ill feelings for Craftsman tools and Sears itself for making me feel foolish. When I first got married and had no money, fixing something was a big deal to me. I didn't know anything. My first "project" was to fix an arm on a porch swing. It needed a rabbit cut on the end to fit on the back of the swing. I had bought an old table saw from a friend, it was a strange saw. The table was sitting crooked not side to side but front to back. Take my word for it, strange. Not being mechanically inclined I just used it as it was. I use that word loosely I really didn't know what I was doing at 20 years old. :confused:
My wife's uncle was helping me with some electrical work and I mentioned to him my impossible situation as to how I couldn't get this notch cut out of the porch swing arm. He took a look at it then me, walked over to the table saw turned the arm on it's side made a number of passes back and forth handed it back to me. I looked in amazement I thought this guy was a genius. I was so enthralled, my woodworking history started that day.
Months later I was looking at the tools in a sears catalog and landed on a page full of tools. In big words "OUR LOWEST PRICE EVER". Sound familiar? What luck 50% off. Well, over time I bought a router, belt sander, jig saw hand saw. Thinking I was now the genius. I got a $100 router for $50!
One day I picked up a PC hand saw a friend had with him while he was helping me, what difference! The feel, the weight, I had no idea tools could feel that way. I asked him the price, he said $100. Immediately, I felt slighted by Sears, that stuff I bought was only worth $50. maybe!:mad:
I stewed over that for years, I know it sounds childish, until one day it dawned on me - maybe from you guys - they're not very well made tools and I still hate using them but I still have them and as someone in this tread mentioned it would have been harder to start if not for those less expensive choices. When I think back on that time, given the choice, I doubt that I would have bought the PC. I just couldn't afford it. If I had however, I would have missed a wonderfully important lesson. One of comparison. One of you sometimes get what you pay for. Now I can appreciate a well made tool. And have learned how to care for them. So now I'm leaning more on the side of thanking Sears for offering a cheap alternative. Unfortunately nothing beats a 30 day trial but by then it's too late 'cause now it's yours:eek:
I still don't jump on some of these new tools and gadgets that is supposedly made to improve your skill. I don't believe it. I once read: This stuff we buy to improve our skill really doesn't it just makes us faster. While I forgot who wrote it I never forgot those words. It really helps when you're contemplating a new acquisition.
I appreciate this thread for what it is, an unbiased opinion of expectations gone awry sprinkled with humor. It sure beats those magazine reviews that always leaves me questioning their honesty when on the back of the front cover is a full page ad for the tool that's currently under review. I wish they would stop already and remember some subscribers subscribe to improve one's skills.
By the way, I bought one of those rotozippers. I love it but I only use it to cut electric outlets, etc. in drywall. I don't really know what it's for but it works great for that.

Mark

[Keith Christopher]

mine, hmmm. skil palm sander, makes a GREAT noise though. :) also the B&D jig saw. most of the time I buy tried and true tools, as Mr. Becker said, you can spend more money replacing crappy tools then buying good ones up front. I wouldn't trade my PC plunge router for any other, I love that thing!

[Dennis McDonaugh]

If it would help your conscience, you could send $4K to Alabama to make up for it. I'll PM you my address.

Money well spent to sleep well at night. :)

Good one Darren :D

[Dennis McDonaugh]

... With the requirement of real names, good moderation, and often a pic to go with the name, the folks here are amazingly well behaved and accommodating. Good crowd even if you've got a few stinkers in your tool collection! (...and Lord knows that I do!)

That begs a question. I post on different forums under my full name, but I know some of us don't. Why do you post under different names on different forums? It's not really difficult to tell who you are since you often post the same question in different places so anonymity can't be the reason.

[Corey Hallagan]

Just so you know Scott, you are one of the few that respond and actually answer a question and offer help at the "mosh pit" I never had a problem there myself, but sure feel for some guys who have really stepped into it! LOL. I just quit going there to avoid getting into it. The majority of the folks here are just like yourself. Great group.

Corey

[larry merlau]

we all have gotten a tool or material that hasnt been what we had hoped. And threw a post like this one has been, we have the chance to see what others have found out in there expeiereces. so if we happen to be in the market for one of these such tools, we have at our resources the email or pm process to get more in depth answers or opinions on such things. and the folks here do respond and usually very promptly. unlike some of the other forums that have there own cliches that dont. saw mill creek is run like a forum should be run and we all need to thank the moderators for there willingness to do such a thank;ess job for the rest of us. thanks for listening

[Alan Mikkelsen]

After scrolling through all these messages, I was struck by the number of comments about the PC detail sander and the Rotozip and the Rosseau router table insert. Maybe I'm a bit different, but I've found the PC detail sander fine. I don't use it often, but when I've needed to do something with it, I thought it did what it was designed to do. I don't use the rotozip in my shop for anything, but I wouldn't want to be without it if I have some sheetrock to hang. It's great at cuttting outlets, switches, lights, etc. I've never had any issues with the Rosseau router table insert, either. But maybe that's because I've got a monster router hung under it! :D

Now, I've got a pair of Board Buddies that I'm unimpressed with. Also, the oscillating feature on the Shop Fox drill press was just too light duty to be of any real value. And I have a Grizzly jig saw I don't use much, but that's just because I don't use a jig saw much. :rolleyes:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Alan....I'm with you. My PC detail sander works well for the uses I've had. I don't have rotozip but do have a router base attachment for my dremel tool. Works well for wall board cutouts for electricals as you explained. Jig saw.....mine's been invaluable this week as I cover the walls of my new shop with 1/2 CDX plywood. I'm using it, a circular saw and a drill to cut the electrical outlets holes.

Pictures to follow on a new thread I'll start. I just came down to get the digital camera.

[scott spencer]

That begs a question. I post on different forums under my full name, but I know some of us don't. Why do you post under different names on different forums? It's not really difficult to tell who you are since you often post the same question in different places so anonymity can't be the reason. Dennis - I rarely (almost never) post questions on other forums except here and Woodnet. Not sure where this is coming from or why.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Dennis - I rarely (almost never) post questions on other forums except here and Woodnet. Not sure where this is coming from or why.

Sorry, I wasn't refering to you in particular Scott. Just a generic wondering. Lots of people post on different forums and I was wondering why they used two different user IDs.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

When I started on Woodnet, I didn't see one real name anwyhere and since Woodcat was easy for me to remember at login, I took that name. I am myself on the other two forums.

I don't know about others, but I don't try and hide my name on any forums, even if I use another name like the car forum name I use (BuffaloElk...long story). You can always look in my profile for my real name and location. I wonder about people who don't fill out their profile. :D

[Chris Barnett]

Being that I am in business with my tools, I have a long list of failures....I've had two PC 333 ROS's that failed, anything and everything I ever bought from Sears & Ryobi, two failed Milwaukee drills, an 18ga. pin nailer from HF and a Skil belt sander that died. In all fairness the Skil belt sander was 6 years old when it bit the dust and I really used that thing hard.

Even better....things that haven't failed have come from Bosch, De Walt, The old Ridgid, Delta & PC, Grizzly and Makita. I think the 333 ROS failures were well documented as a batch failure, so it didn't affect my purchasing of the Delta & PC products.

Gee, I was ready to pickup a Milwaukee 1/2 corded today....suppose I will keep the Hitachi 9 amp that I picked up before deciding I wanted Milwaukee instead. Powered the Hitachi up once and tried 3/8 inch bit in sheet sheet....like butter...well, almost. Had sold myself on the helical gear Milwaukee, which is an old 20 year model, 5.5 amp. Have never read a bad word about the Hitachi heavy duty 1/2 incher, the least weird looking of the Hitachi line.