Making your own interior doors

[Victor Robinson]

I do have a million projects going at the moment, but am considering another and wanted some feedback.

The interior doors in our old 1930s home are solid core. Unfortunately, they are also beat up and have too many layers of paint on them.

Options:
1). Refinish the existing doors - lots of work, probably lead paint, some would have to be replaced anyways

2). Buy new prehung doors. Hollow-core seem cheap and noisy to us and a downgrade for the style of home. Solid in the right style are too much $$.

3). Build them myself. I'd use poplar as they would be painted. Joinery would be mortise and loose tenon.

We are talking 9 or 10 doors total. What do you think? Anyone make the same decision? It's sweat vs. dollars.

[Justin DiValentino]

This is actually my next project, only my plan is to make (2) full radius arch doors and their cooresponding frames. Cheapest price I found for a pre-hung arch door was $600. I'll easily beat that by building them myself.

You should also have no trouble coming out far ahead on price compared to buying (10) solid (probably pine) doors from your local big box. We bought a couple solid pine doors a few years back and IIRC they were almost $200/piece.

[Dave Zellers]

I would strip the old doors that are in good shape and only make as few new ones as possible. Are you able to match the style?

I'd say lead paint is 100% certain. But if you use chemical strippers wouldn't that make it easy to contain and keep it out of the air?

[Victor Robinson]

I would strip the old doors that are in good shape and only make as few new ones as possible. Are you able to match the style?

I'd say lead paint is 100% certain. But if you use chemical strippers wouldn't that make it easy to contain and keep it out of the air?

Yes chemical strippers are certainly an option...a somewhat gooey messy option but an option nonetheless.

I could match the style of existing doors (they are 1 panel + molding), but we'd ideally like to update the style a LITTLE (from federal to federal-modern). Perhaps 4 panel.

There was a FHB article by Paul Levine that really inspired me to consider this. He laid out a relatively streamlined process that seemed doable.

[Justin DiValentino]

instead of doing mortise and loose tenon you might want to consider a system like the amana stub spindle which integrates the tenon into each of the rails

http://www.amanatool.com/routerbits/stubspindle-copecutterdoors.html

[Jeff Duncan]

Interior doors are not that difficult to build assuming you have the right tools and knowledge. From a cost standpoint I can't build a door for twice the price you can buy a decent quality door for from a wholesale supplier. But your not going to include your time so you just have to figure out your material costs. You'll probably save some money and it will be a good project so why not?

I would probably stay away from poplar though, not really a great wood for stability. Fir was used a lot and certain pines are also good. I use predominantly hardwoods for the types of doors I make, but it ups the cost and difficulty of building.

good luck,
JeffD

[Peter Kelly]

I do have a million projects going at the moment, but am considering another and wanted some feedback.

The interior doors in our old 1930s home are solid core. Unfortunately, they are also beat up and have too many layers of paint on them.

Options:
1). Refinish the existing doors - lots of work, probably lead paint, some would have to be replaced anyways

2). Buy new prehung doors. Hollow-core seem cheap and noisy to us and a downgrade for the style of home. Solid in the right style are too much $$.

3). Build them myself. I'd use poplar as they would be painted. Joinery would be mortise and loose tenon.

We are talking 9 or 10 doors total. What do you think? Anyone make the same decision? It's sweat vs. dollars.


Sounds like you've been reading Paul Levine's article on building doors from Fine Homebuilding. I'd steer clear of Poplar and get a moisture meter before making anything. Nothing worse than having a door you've made get all tweaked and not shut properly. I didn't think loose tenons he'd used looked substantial enough but maybe they're ok for occasional use rooms.

[frank shic]

you may want to wait until the festool XL comes out. it looks like it'd be a great tool for this application!

[Bob Lloyd]

you may want to wait until the festool XL comes out. it looks like it'd be a great tool for this application!

It would probably be cheaper to buy the doors:D

I would strip what you can. If you do not like the existing style then it is a moot point.


Hollow-core seem cheap and noisy to us and a downgrade for the style of home. Solid in the right style are too much $$.

Solid core doors are only $20-30 more than the hollow core, I realize that they are not perfect but they are so much more solid.

[Jim Foster]

I'm going to try my hand at making a few doors soon, but 9-10 doors seems like a pretty big project, unless your well set up.

[Victor Robinson]

you may want to wait until the festool XL comes out. it looks like it'd be a great tool for this application!

*whistles nonchalantly* *can't look you straight in the eye*

[Victor Robinson]

Sounds like you've been reading Paul Levine's article on building doors from Fine Homebuilding. I'd steer clear of Poplar and get a moisture meter before making anything. Nothing worse than having a door you've made get all tweaked and not shut properly. I didn't think loose tenons he'd used looked substantial enough but maybe they're ok for occasional use rooms.

Thanks Peter - yup you're right on the article. Is Poplar too soft or moves too much? What economical wood would you recommend? If the panels are plywood would you still expect enough movement for the doors to get tweaked?

[frank shic]

alright, alright, i admit it's not ABSOLUTELY necessary... but it sure would be nice to have around! come on, guys? doesn't anyone want to build a wooden gate or a pergola or... just have the latest and the greatest from festool?!?

[Jay Jolliffe]

I went the route of buying them for our house. In the beginning I was going to make them but time was passing by & I needed them sooner than later. I found the exact door I was going to build so I bought what I needed. I already bought about 300 bdf of 1 3/4 clear pine to make them. It was cheaper to buy them. I still have the wood so I'll be turning that into a dinning table some day. I like making doors. The last ones I made were African Mahogany & there were 19 four panel doors. Used floating tenons for the joinery.

[David Kumm]

I like building dorrs but they are more time consuming than you think- even with a slot mortiser and big shaper. If you are looking for something that shows some craftsmanship and don't want to pay 600-900 for it you can make your own and save money. If you are happy with a $300 door you can spend your time better elsewhere. When I am painting a door I use maple as just flipping the door over on the bench causes poplar to dent. It is in the stained hardwood door that you can really show off the wood and make your time really count for something special. Dave

[Victor Robinson]

alright, alright, i admit it's not ABSOLUTELY necessary... but it sure would be nice to have around! come on, guys? doesn't anyone want to build a wooden gate or a pergola or... just have the latest and the greatest from festool?!?

Those new marketing videos Festool puts out are serious tool pr0n.

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi Victor,Trust me you dont want to get into make new doors.You will pull your hair out trying to find suitable lumber.The doors you have now may be clear vertical grain dougfir.I am on a renovation project that has interior doors from the 30s we had them dipped and stripped.Very fine grained fir was under the many layers of paint.Cost about 150.00 per door.Much cheaper than buying new and all the chairactor. I do make doors and i always buy double what i need to pick stock that will behave in service never really know. Andrew

[bob hertle]

Wow, I'm glad I didn't have a forum to ask, before I built 12 raised panel interior doors out of poplar 15 years ago. I'd have missed out on a very satisfying project. All mortise and tenon, panels retained with applied cove and bead molding cut on the router table. Built from rough sawn kiln dried 8/4 and 6/4 poplar. All work done with tablesaw/bandsaw/plunge router/router table. I did justify a HVLP gun to shoot white oil based paint finish. Doors were to replace original hollow core doors in a typical 70's house. They have held up quite well, with absolutely no warping or twisting. They still all close perfectly, so maybe I was just lucky! I say shop for the lumber of your choice, and go for it! BTW, I used the original doors as templates for positioning a ho-made router template to route the hinge mortises, and re-used the original (3 per door) 3 1/2" butt hinges. This made hanging the new doors a p0iece of cake.

Regards
Bob

P.S.: you couldn't pay me enough to strip the old doors. Been there, done that, and I'd rather build new--much more satisfying to be woodworking!

[frank shic]

would you have considered a festool XL if you could have used one for building them??? ;)

[Victor Robinson]

would you have considered a festool XL if you could have used one for building them??? ;)

Frank is a bad man. I vote we ban him.

[Andrew Hughes]

Ya okay bob,Everyone knows it takes sixteen years before poplar starts warping.So there.:p

[Victor Robinson]

Wow, I'm glad I didn't have a forum to ask, before I built 12 raised panel interior doors out of poplar 15 years ago. I'd have missed out on a very satisfying project. All mortise and tenon, panels retained with applied cove and bead molding cut on the router table. Built from rough sawn kiln dried 8/4 and 6/4 poplar. All work done with tablesaw/bandsaw/plunge router/router table. I did justify a HVLP gun to shoot white oil based paint finish. Doors were to replace original hollow core doors in a typical 70's house. They have held up quite well, with absolutely no warping or twisting. They still all close perfectly, so maybe I was just lucky! I say shop for the lumber of your choice, and go for it! BTW, I used the original doors as templates for positioning a ho-made router template to route the hinge mortises, and re-used the original (3 per door) 3 1/2" butt hinges. This made hanging the new doors a p0iece of cake.

Regards
Bob

P.S.: you couldn't pay me enough to strip the old doors. Been there, done that, and I'd rather build new--much more satisfying to be woodworking!

Thanks for sharing Bob. Did you have a problem with the softness of the poplar?

[John TenEyck]

Loose tenons are as strong as a traditional M&T making them perfectly fine for a door. They also are a lot easier to fabricate efficiently and accurately, which helps in ending up with a flat door. Poplar is more than stable enough, is a dream to work with, and paints beautifully. It's only drawback is it's soft compared to most other hardwoods but it's every bit as hard as pine, of which is sold as doors by the millions. If your panels are flat panels, MDF would be a great choice; very flat and stable, cheap, and paints great. If you have a shop set up for handling stock the size required to make doors, it's not hard to make 10 doors. Figure a solid week, start to finish - so if you have to work a "real" job, that will mean more like 2 or 3 weeks of weekends and a few nights.

John

[Peter Quinn]

I'm scratching my head on all the "poplar" criticisms. Before the economy went south I was making doors for a living, and we made lots of poplar doors in paint grade. You learn to pick your stock, go for straighter grain, weed out those stiles that seem to want to dance around daily, no problems. I built numerous doors for my own house from poplar, and again no problems. There are doors in the show room of the millwork shop where I work that are approaching 20 years old, no problems. For paint grade, its plenty hard enough, unless perhaps you stable small buffalo in your home? Sure is harder than most fir or pine IMO. VGF and good white pine will both cost double what poplar does in my area, sometime more. And anyone that has milled fir realizes its no joy to work with by any means, mostly has to be climbed to avoid tear out. So count me amount poplars advocates for pant grade passage doors. Soft maple gets stupid heavy, makes a decent paint grade door, but its not such a stable thing either.

Should you make doors? Well, I have been trained professionally, my small home shop was built with door making in mind, I have access to a wide belt sander for leveling, takes me 6-8 hours for paint grade doors with MDF panels from rough lumber to ready to paint, a bit longer obviously for sold wood panels. I use ultra lite MDf for raised panels, it comes in thicknesses up to 2" (bring friends to help carry that, its still darn heavy), figure materials in my area are around $80 per door using MDF panels, around 45-50BF of material using solid panels, so around $125 in material for solid stock here in CT. Add to that the cost of the tooling, which can vary significantly depending on what methods you employ.

You can buy a fir or pine slab, 1 3/8", 6 panel, at most home centers here, for under $50. Its a decent door, it comes in almost no choices as far as style. I know you can pay more and get more choices from many manufacturers. I have never seen a factory door in a home center that held even a dim candle to the ones I make myself. I have seen hight quality production doors that were at least as good as what I can make, but at a much higher cost.

I'm thinking you have to get a price on what you want commercially, and weight that against your skill level, your shop situation, your access to quality lumber and its cost, your time frame, and frankly your sheer physical strength. Hardwood passage doors get heavy, especially with 7-10 clamps on them. At some point you need to glue them up, clean up the squeeze out, and flip them over to clean the other side. This takes two people, or a specialize bench/frame, or a big determined gorilla. And you need to hang them, which IMO actually takes more skill than building them for most door styles. I find making doors very rewarding, and if you have never done it ti will add to your skill set, so thats worth considering. Its never a yes/no answer, its really relative to your situation. You can do it, there is no shame in buying them either.

[Chris Hedges]

Believe me, porn is much cheaper! Wait till you all see the price of the XL!


Those new marketing videos Festool puts out are serious tool pr0n.

[Peter Kelly]

Thanks Peter - yup you're right on the article. Is Poplar too soft or moves too much? What economical wood would you recommend? If the panels are plywood would you still expect enough movement for the doors to get tweaked?

For paint grade, I usually go with #1 or C-Select Pine, Doug Fir or even Radiata. Old growth Poplar is great if you can find it my most of what you get these days is very high in sapwood with very wide spacing of growth rings and not a lot of stability. Unless you're building the doors for a bathroom or a damp area, I'd use MDF for the panels as it will move around a lot less than plywood which often has a poplar core. If you're really set on plywood, make sure it has a fir core.

I've made a lot of traditional 12-piece, raised panel doors over the years, few things are more satisfying than seeing your work hanging in your home but making, painting and installing entry doors is hard work. If you haven't made them loads of them already and have a decent shop setup, you'll find that 9-10 doors is a pretty serious project, especially if the openings are all different sizes.

[Dave Norris]

+1 for what Peter said. You can buy cheaper than u might build, but you will probably build nicer than you would buy, especially at borg. Nice doors get noticed, and doors are readily seen in your house. if you have the tools etc like Peter mentioned, no reason not too. straight gain is a key ingredient. i like to make the rails and stiles by gluing two thinner boards together then milling to thickness. In my mind that increases the likelihood they will stay straight.

In my childlike mind, I wouldn't see why not to build them, and I would use poplar also.

10 doors would take me while though, even without the extra glue step.

[frank shic]

Frank is a bad man. I vote we ban him.

lol guilty as charged *bows* ;)

[Victor Robinson]

Believe me, porn is much cheaper! Wait till you all see the price of the XL!

$1,200 actually. I had guessed it would be a little higher.

[Larry Edgerton]

I'm scratching my head on all the "poplar" criticisms. Before the economy went south I was making doors for a living, and we made lots of poplar doors in paint grade. You learn to pick your stock, go for straighter grain, weed out those stiles that seem to want to dance around daily, no problems. I built numerous doors for my own house from poplar, and again no problems. There are doors in the show room of the millwork shop where I work that are approaching 20 years old, no problems. For paint grade, its plenty hard enough, unless perhaps you stable small buffalo in your home? Sure is harder than most fir or pine IMO. VGF and good white pine will both cost double what poplar does in my area, sometime more. And anyone that has milled fir realizes its no joy to work with by any means, mostly has to be climbed to avoid tear out. So count me amount poplars advocates for pant grade passage doors. Soft maple gets stupid heavy, makes a decent paint grade door, but its not such a stable thing either.

Should you make doors? Well, I have been trained professionally, my small home shop was built with door making in mind, I have access to a wide belt sander for leveling, takes me 6-8 hours for paint grade doors with MDF panels from rough lumber to ready to paint, a bit longer obviously for sold wood panels. I use ultra lite MDf for raised panels, it comes in thicknesses up to 2" (bring friends to help carry that, its still darn heavy), figure materials in my area are around $80 per door using MDF panels, around 45-50BF of material using solid panels, so around $125 in material for solid stock here in CT. Add to that the cost of the tooling, which can vary significantly depending on what methods you employ.

You can buy a fir or pine slab, 1 3/8", 6 panel, at most home centers here, for under $50. Its a decent door, it comes in almost no choices as far as style. I know you can pay more and get more choices from many manufacturers. I have never seen a factory door in a home center that held even a dim candle to the ones I make myself. I have seen hight quality production doors that were at least as good as what I can make, but at a much higher cost.

I'm thinking you have to get a price on what you want commercially, and weight that against your skill level, your shop situation, your access to quality lumber and its cost, your time frame, and frankly your sheer physical strength. Hardwood passage doors get heavy, especially with 7-10 clamps on them. At some point you need to glue them up, clean up the squeeze out, and flip them over to clean the other side. This takes two people, or a specialize bench/frame, or a big determined gorilla. And you need to hang them, which IMO actually takes more skill than building them for most door styles. I find making doors very rewarding, and if you have never done it ti will add to your skill set, so thats worth considering. Its never a yes/no answer, its really relative to your situation. You can do it, there is no shame in buying them either.

As usual Peter is in harmony with my thoughts, so what Peter said......

Building custom doors is part of my business too, but if the doors are normal styles in normal sizes, I buy them. My supplier can get me very nice [read not Borg quality] raised panel doors in pine for about 2 bills prehung. I would lose money trying to compete with that, and so you too have to make a decision. You are actually going to have costs of close to what doors can be bought for. Would you rather be fishing, or making a dining room table? In my current house I bought my doors. In my next house I will have to make them because everything is scaled using Phi, but if I could buy what I wanted, I would.

Larry

[Chris Hedges]

I guess with a Kapex and an XL you dont really need anything else!


$1,200 actually. I had guessed it would be a little higher.

[Victor Robinson]

Thanks to everyone...as always, you all provide very helpful information and insight.

As far as having the shop to handle the project, I'm not sure. I have sufficient equipment I believe, but the point about wrangling heavy doors is a good one. That might get tiring and frustrating pretty quick...I'm not a big dude.

Best course of action I think is to go ahead and give one a try. I can build much nicer than the basic solid doors available at the big box and cheaper than the nice options at the "door store." Doing one should give me an idea whether I can do 10. Worst case I waste some time and have to hack it up to salvage the wood.

I'm estimating about 25-30 bdft per door (4 panel, panels are sheet good). Does that sound about right? I'll be using 4/4 stock laminated and planed to final 1-3/8" thickness.

[frank shic]

have at it, victor, and good luck! hope to see pics soon... even if you don't use an XL for joinery ;)

[Todd Burch]

Victor, here's where I would start.

1) No sense ditching the doors that are still good. Sub out the stripping and get them back bare wood. Much cheaper than a new door, and no mess for you. I've used a local Guardsman Wood Pro franchise for stripping. (I know the owner - a fellow woodworker).

2) Buy the doors that you need. Seriously, 1 million projects? Do you really need one more?

Todd

[Peter Quinn]

Thanks to everyone...as always, you all provide very helpful information and insight.

As far as having the shop to handle the project, I'm not sure. I have sufficient equipment I believe, but the point about wrangling heavy doors is a good one. That might get tiring and frustrating pretty quick...I'm not a big dude.

Best course of action I think is to go ahead and give one a try. I can build much nicer than the basic solid doors available at the big box and cheaper than the nice options at the "door store." Doing one should give me an idea whether I can do 10. Worst case I waste some time and have to hack it up to salvage the wood.

I'm estimating about 25-30 bdft per door (4 panel, panels are sheet good). Does that sound about right? I'll be using 4/4 stock laminated and planed to final 1-3/8" thickness.


What size are the doors? Using a standard passage door at 32X80, I get 36 BF of actual finished door if using solid wood panels, add waste to that, because you cant normally buy 80" lumber. My yard sometimes has 7' material in 4/4, but usually I'd lose a bit on the widths anyway. If the panels are man made then the numbers go down, closer to 20-25BF for the frame depending on style. I think your idea to make one is spot on. That should answer the questions for you and give you a good experience without committing too much money to lumber. I suggest getting a glue up buddy to help during assembly if possible. I sure helps to have two people when assembling/flipping/cleaning. Good luck and enjoy it!

[bob hertle]

If it hasn't been mentioned already, you might want to consider urea resin glue. It has a long working time, and most importantly, no creep. Clean off squeeze out before it hardens! I found it helpful to set up a level pair of horses for the glue up. That way, you can check for twist with a level before glue sets.

Regards

Bob

[Bob Lloyd]

Look forward to seeing the photos


Worst case I waste some time Is woodworking ever a waste of time? Enjoy.


even if you don't use an XL for joinery ;)

Frank, do you dream of an XL when you sleep?:D

[Jay Jolliffe]

From what I've seen on line about the domino 700xl it does a mortise a little wider & about 1" deeper. I wouldn't use that to mortise a door. It's not big enough unless you double them up. I bought a Domino just for that reason & after spending around $1000.00 I didn't think a tenon 1"long it would do a good enough job. So I bought a mortising jig & long 1/2'' router bit. Already had the plunge router. The doors I made had 10 mortises & there were 9 doors. Worked great...This is what the jig & router did & as you can see there is plenty of tenon. 228001Domino just wouldn't cut it...

[scott vroom]

I can't build a door, any style, cheaper than I can buy pre-hung, nor do I think I can match the quality of a comercially built door. I can buy a paint grade/primed solid core 26 door pre-hung for $130.

[frank shic]

prehungs are nice but i think the next time i replace my interior doors, i'll go for the split jamb.

[Larry Edgerton]

Someone mentioned level sawhorses. This is important, well not so much level as on the same plane. I have a custom made bench for doormaking with a steel frame and backbone down the center, so its good lengthwise , but twist is actually more important.

I use winding sticks to check for this and shim the wheels up until it is perfect to make up for an imperfect floor. My bench is on wheels so I have to do this.

Winding sticks are just two straight sticks of uniform size. You can use two levels or anything that is straight and has parallel edges. They do not have to be the same size, and two different colors is a help to old eyes. You just set them on the bench, or horses, one at one end, one at the other, and parallel, and get back and sight across the pair. If the second one does not totally disappear at the same time when looking over the first one, the angled sliver that you see is how far you are off. Simple and fast. No bubbles.

If I know how to transfer a drawing to this I could explain it better, but I am a computer illiterate.

Frank! You are not allowed to be on a woodworking forum and use split jambs. Its just not allowed. The Festool gods would frown down apon you with disdain.

Larry

[frank shic]

oh, alright, alright, i promise i'll guy out and buy that freud door making set...