Sawstop Question

[Jenny Trice]

I've been in a personal debate regarding a new table saw. One day I was ready to pull the plug and buy a SawStop. Then I stumbled upon a review that suggested that the safety mechanism can trigger when cutting wood with high moisture content, inadvertant staples or foil. That would be a $200 mistake. I'm wondering if Sawstop users have actually experienced this or heard of similar issues?

[Steve Meliza]

If the manufacturer is to be believed: http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works/faq/

[Neil Brooks]

You've got a little catching up to do :)

Welcome to the Creek !!

Paste this into Google, and you'll see the discussions, from THIS site, on the subject:

sawstop misfires site:sawmillcreek.org

Long story short: it CAN happen. There ARE ways to minimize it. A blade is NOT automatically trash (but ... probably). SS IS trying to reduce its occurrence.

[BOB OLINGER]

Jenny,

I bought a Sawstop in Jan 2011. Not realizing it (lack of memory), I started to rip a pressure treated (green stuff) 2x6 and the safety mechanism triggered. My mistake. I don't see how a blade can be saved, but I hung mine up for reminder (still embedded to safety cartridge). You can avoid this by setting the saw in bypass mode. I need to see if I have a key; don't remember seeing one; if not, I will order one. Bottom line, the safety feature is worth every penny!!!!

[Mike Henderson]

A lost blade is much better than a lost hand.

Mike

[Jenny Trice]

My other question is regarding the fences that are available for the Sawstop. I have a vega fence currently on my old craftsman saw. I love the vega fence. I am wondering if the aluminum extrusion fence on the contractor saw is as good as my vega fence. If the vega is better, would it fit on the Sawstop without drilling new holes in the table?

[Tom Hintz]

I've been in a personal debate regarding a new table saw. One day I was ready to pull the plug and buy a SawStop. Then I stumbled upon a review that suggested that the safety mechanism can trigger when cutting wood with high moisture content, inadvertent staples or foil. That would be a $200 mistake. I'm wondering if SawStop users have actually experienced this or heard of similar issues?

I look at the misconceptions about the SawStop triggering accidentally in the second part of my SawStop review. They have thought of your concerns and you can deal with that kind of thing easily. The wet wood thing ialwayssy going to be difficult because of how inconsistent wood itself is and how the moisture content cadifferre across one piece. We do show that and cut wet wood as well as metal in the video without triggering the brake both in Bypass Mode and with the full system working.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/sawstop2.html

[Ted Baca]

Jenny, I have had a sawstop now for about 3 years and have had only one trigger episode and that was my mistake of cutting a board with a small brad in it. The brad fragment went around and grounded when it made contact between the blade and the brake. Sawstop has resolved this with a layer of clear plastic on the brake face that keeps it from grounding. As far as the moisure in the wood, you have the ability on a sawstop to defeat the blade brake for such cuts and it will return to normal operation with an on/off cycle.
Your question on the Vega fence, I have an Excalibur which I love, one of the reasons I bought a SawStop was that I could eliminate the fence for credit when I bought the saw. I see no reason why the Vega wouldn't work on the SawStop. You may have to relocate some holes but it should work. I will add that when I bought the Excalibur I had really planned to buy the Vega as I loved the micro adjust feature. But I was considering the Excalibur and while attending a Woodworker show the sales guy took what I thought was a ridiculous offer and now I own one. Otherwise I probably would have a Vega and could answer your question with experience rather than speculation.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I cut through a piece of wood the other day that had a few pin nails in it. I even saw sparks fly (not good at all!). My brake didn't trigger.

My understanding is that a small staple in a piece of wood is not conductive enough to trigger the brake, but pressure treated wood often is conductive enough. When in doubt, run the saw in bypass mode, but use the blade guard, anti-kickback pawls, a push stick, make sure the workpiece is flat, straight, and square, and make sure your fence is aligned to the blade... i.e., don't cut your finger off!

[Jerrimy Snook]

I had a customer bring in his Woodworker II attached to the SawStop brake. I pulled the saw from the aluminum and checked the blade out. There was zero damage to the blade, it still had within 0.001" runout. YMMV

Jerrimy

[Ron Natalie]

It's not just how conductive something is but what it conducts from the blade to... A real conductive piece of wood in contact with the saw table (or perhaps you) will trip it. A random nail that doesn't bridge the gap between the blade and the saw metal or your hand won't. If you hold a nail in your hand and touch the blade, it will trip just like you were holding on one of the hotdogs.

I refer to the bypass mode as "hotdog mode" on mine.

[Ted Baca]

As mentioned, the reason my brake triggered was that a peice of the brad came around with the blade and bridged the gap between the blade and the surface of the brake thus completing the conductivity. I too have cut boards and had sparks fly but I was lucky that it didn't send a piece big enough to make the contact between the blade and brake. My episode cost me a Woodworker II and the brake. But SawStop has realized that this can happen and has added a clear peice of plastic tape to act as an insulator to prevent "fluke" trigger episodes such as mine. If you have an older brake without that clear plastic on it, you can remove the brake and add a piece or layer of clear packing tape to do the same. I added this to me Dado Brake, the new brake I bought already had this on it.

[Art Mulder]

I'm sure it's an engineering challenge for them, but I look at like this: they (and I) would rather it misfired 200 times on wet wood than did NOT fire even once on flesh contact...

[Larry Frank]

I have had my SawStop for a couple years now without the brake firing. I will have to admit, that I have become very careful about checking the wood for staples and such. I have no idea why lumber yards have to put so many staples into a board. I also have bought a small metal detector to use when I have a question.

Cutting wet green treated wood on any saw can be a problem because it tends to bind and can cause a kick back. Even when I cut dry green treated wood, I will put the saw in bypass mode.

I am not certain that I would ever use a blade that has been involved in a brake firing. While the blade may still be flat and have little run out, there is no doubt that the brazed carbide tips have been severely stressed. With my luck, a tip would come off, cause the brake to fire and then I would get hit with the tip.

[james bell]

I have had mine for over a year without incident until last week. The riving knife was a little high so when I lowered it, had to adjust the cartridge. Wouldn't start as I had lowered it a little too much and triggered some sort of alarm code. Anyway, fixed that, put my blade back on and all was good, until I changed blades and did not recheck the gap (had been using these two blades for a long time without incident). That said, when I started the saw, the brake tripped immediately. Zero damage to the blade. Blade was true, no high points, but upon checking it was a little larger than the first blade which had been sharpened.

I questioned Sawstop, as the idiot light turned green, but they said they cannot accurately detect if the blade is too close to the brake. They know when it is too far away or even touching, but not very close. So the moral of this story is don't always believe the green idiot light, need to also quickly check the gap.

I did get excellent and quick response from Sawstop on my questions, no complaint there.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I just ruined my dado stack with a brake firing yesterday... basically the worst case scenario in terms of cost... sigh.

I was using my miter gauge to make a half-lap joint at 45 degrees. At first I was using my combination blade, but decided to switch my my dado blade to avoid having to do as much "nibbling" to remove the waste.

My old saw was right-tilting, which meant that the dado stack adds width to the left side. This is a left-tilting saw, so it adds cutting width to the right side... you can probably see where this is going. My miter gauge was set up to work with my combo blade without hitting... apparently it isn't set up for dado blades though.

With the wider blade in the saw, the aluminum miter gauge hit the blade. I was a really startling sound. It was a massive "THUNK!" sound, and the entire saw jumped slightly from the impact. The blade was gone before I knew it.

It took me a minute to figure out what happened. I even took out the metal detector to make sure there wasn't any metal in the workpiece. The miter gauge only has a very slight nick in it.

Glass half empty:
-I'm an idiot
-This is going to be expensive
-It cost me a day in the shop since I couldn't continue yesterday without my dado set

Glass half full:
-this is an opportunity to trade up to a much nicer dado set!!!

[Neil Brooks]

Awwwww, Peter.

You didn't ruin the miter gauge, either ... on the plus side :)

I haven't set up my SS, yet, and can see a certain ever-present hesitancy/paranoia, to avoid such potential issues.

I could almost even see -- after one or two -- disabling the flesh-sensing mode, and enjoying what is reportedly a fantastic table saw, WITHOUT.

I don't know.

I think it's called an "ignosecond," defined as


The moment of clarity just after a boneheaded act, but just before the point of no return, when you realize you've just done something stupid.

I wonder how we'd feel about air bags, if they deployed erroneously, every once in a while ;-)

[Thomas L. Miller]

Go ahead Neil. Put the saw together, put on an old blade, fire the brake and get it over with. I unintentionally fired the brake on my saw after about a year of using it. I hit some aluminum tape stuck to a piece of plywood. Scared me, didn't hurt the blade which was a WWII. I sent the blade to Forrest and they sent it back and said it was fine. Now I have the benefit of knowing the brake will fire and what it's like. Besides, now I have a story to tell when someone walks into my shop and sees the spent cartridge hanging on the wall. :o
Tom.

[John Coloccia]

Am I the only one that hasn't unintentionally fired the brake in his SS? LOL.

Sawstops are practically all we sell at my local Woodcraft, and setting off the brake by accident just doesn't really seem to be an issue. I know it happens, but I can tell you quite truthfully that I've had more customers walk in with bandages on their hands from TS accidents than have walked in to by SS cartridges. I had one guy that came right from the hospital, high on pain meds, and bleeding all over the floor.

The only guy that buys SS cartridges regularly (like a couple of times a year) is the guy who runs the local school shop, mainly because kids run stuff into the blade. Other than that, it's just not a big problem. Stuff happens, but it's rare and most of us just don't seem to have a problem. I don't even think about it anymore. It's a table saw. I turn it on and cut, just as I've done the last 2 or 3 years, and only a handful of owners seem to have a different experience. I must admit, though, that I haven't run my miter gauge, or other metal, accidentally through my old Delta contractor saw either, so maybe I'm just lucky?

Neil: running a big hunk of metal into the SS doesn't count as erroneously firing, does it? It's carelessness, plain and simple. We all do stupid things sometimes. If we're lucky, we get away with it. Don't blame the tool, though. If you don't run metal, sopping wet wood or a body part through the blade, the brake doesn't fire. After some use, you'll completely forget about the brake, just like the rest of us. It's a table saw, not a finger saving device. The brake only takes center stage when someone does something stupid, and not checking that your miter bar, jigs, finger or whatever is going to run into the blade accidentally is definitely STUPID, but such is the human condition. I thank the Lord I don't loose body parts and destroy saw blades every time I do something stupid as I would simply have no limbs or saw blades left.

[Neil Brooks]

Neil: running a big hunk of metal into the SS doesn't count as erroneously firing, does it? It's carelessness, plain and simple.

Agreed.

I don't denigrate the technology, or I wouldn't have bought one.

But I do look forward to their continuous improvement of the technology -- perhaps enhanced ability to "discriminate," and reduce 'true' misfires.

[Daniel Shnitka]

I have had Sawstop Industrial model for well over a year or has it been two. In all aspects it has exceeded my expectations in all categories.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Am I the only one that hasn't unintentionally fired the brake in his SS? LOL.

...

The brake only takes center stage when someone does something stupid, and not checking that your miter bar, jigs, finger or whatever is going to run into the blade accidentally is definitely STUPID...


Well why don't you rub it in already?!? ha ha ha

[mreza Salav]

It is interesting to me that most of those who have had accidental brake fire (me included) have had it because of a mistake.
I wonder what is the rate of people who have accidental brake fire on a SS vs. the rate of people who have an accident (finger cut?!) on a non-SS.
Both are caused mostly by a moment of not being careful enough or paying enough attention. In one you pay a much higher price than the other.

I bet there aren't many who have had TWO or more accidental brake fires (typically one is enough to make you extra cautious with every cut).

[Jerome Hanby]

On a slightly different note, if the Saw Stop never fires, how do you know it's working? Do you budget in a trash blade and a new cartridge for a once a year (or whatever period) hotdog test?

[Peter Aeschliman]

You can get some assurance by touching the blade when the saw isn't running. There are green and red lights on the switch, and when you touch the blade, the red light flashes.

So it at least tells you that it knows you're touching the blade.

[Steve Meliza]

There are green and red lights on the switch, and when you touch the blade, the red light flashes. And if I read the SS FAQ correctly when cutting something that might cause an accidental firing (eg. pressure treated wood) then you put the saw in bypass mode to disable the brake then take a test cut to see if the light goes red or not.

Of course now you risk people cutting fingers off while staring at the light.

[John Coloccia]

Well why don't you rub it in already?!? ha ha ha

:D ROFL. I just haven't done THAT particular stupid thing yet, Peter. I know full well that I'm capable of that and more.

[Ron Natalie]

You don't have to look at the light while making the cut. The light will continue to blink once contact is made until the motor is turned off and the blade coasts to a stop.