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View Full Version : Is equipment sold at the big box different than a dealer.



Dave Lehnert
03-21-2012, 4:12 PM
Is equipment (with the same model number) sold at the big box different than a dealer?

I know I have seen this asked on here before. I was doing some reading on line and ran across this at Husqvarna web site. To my surprise the answer can be "Yes"
Like it says, One is not better than the other but different.

http://husqvarna.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/634/session/L3RpbWUvMTMzMjM2MDIwNS9zaWQvNDFqNFJGVGs%3D

Matt Meiser
03-21-2012, 4:14 PM
Another reason to buy Stihl.

glenn bradley
03-21-2012, 5:19 PM
How else do you think they guarantee to refund the difference of any "identical" product bought cheaper elsewhere? :D

Larry Edgerton
03-21-2012, 6:51 PM
I had a conversation with a Dewalt rep at a open house and that was his assertion, that the tools were not always the same. It steamed him because the small stores like I buy at were his bread and butter. Don't know, I don't buy at box stores.

The real problem as I see it is that tools are now designed to a pricepoint instead of a quality standard. Tools should have gotten better in the past 30 years, but they have not for the most part.

Box stores do not get the XP line of Huskys. Try an XP and your Stihl will never look the same.:D

Larry

Brian Elfert
03-21-2012, 8:56 PM
Husqvarna is not selling the same models with different parts at different types of stores. I would assert it is not the same model if every detail is not the same including the SKU number. Husqvarna is very clear that the SKU number is different. Husqvarna also says the same basic saw is sold in various packages, but it is not clear that the saw itself is any different.

Honda makes a lawn mower for Home Depot that looks the same and is priced the same as the model sold at independent Honda dealers. The thing is the Home Depot model is a different model number than the model sold at the other retailers. I doubt the Home Depot model is more cheaply built since it costs the same. I suspect the model number is different so Home Depot doesn't have to do price matching. I bought my Honda lawn mower from Home Depot recently rather than the local guy because I had a coupon for Home Depot plus I bought Home Depot store credits on Craigslist for 80% of the actual value. I had originally planned to buy from the local guy.

Anthony Whitesell
03-21-2012, 9:32 PM
I have proof positive that the Briggs & Stratton 7000 Watt Elite series generator sold by the big box stores is different than that at the dealers.

1) The part number for the manual is different (borg vs. dealer and web)
2) The parts listing in the manual is different (borg vs. dealer and web)
3) They know they have different part numebrs in tha manuals as neither the borg nor dealer part numbers are available, but both cross to a third part number (I tested the theory by calling around for a carb kind, a common benign item but was a mess to find the price)
4) Part numbers visible on the generators are different
5) None of the dealers will service the generator because it was not purchased from a dealer, but a big box store.

The model number on the sticker is the same. I took pictures and compared. And yes, the UPC is even the same.

So my belief had been same model and SKU meant same item. I don't believe that anymore. I had noticed (and still do) that some models are only available at a particular store. For example, the Dewalt drywall screw driver. The model numbers available at Lowe's and Home Depot do not even appear on Dewalts website nor are they available from a Dewalt dealer. Furthermore, the model numbers are similar such as DW722, DW722L, and DW722R. Guess which one is from the dealer and which ones are from the box store.

I understand why they do it. But I think they've taken it a little too far.

John Coloccia
03-21-2012, 9:53 PM
Yeah, the models are different. It dilutes the brand. That's fine by me as I don't buy those brands anymore. I'll buy some older things used as I find them, but much new equipment is questionable as to it's quality, and as a general rule if it's carried by big box stores then buyer beware. I hate to say it but all the action is with companies like Festools, Mirka, Fein, etc. Everything else is rapidly turning into Craftsman, and I suspect there are some names that are already sharing factories and product lines with Craftsman (though I won't name them because I don't know for sure).

Shame on Husq. for getting tangled up in this nonsense. Now I have to worry about them too. Actually, I will just stop buying Husqvarna, I guess.

Kevin W Johnson
03-22-2012, 3:53 AM
Yeah, the models are different. It dilutes the brand. That's fine by me as I don't buy those brands anymore. I'll buy some older things used as I find them, but much new equipment is questionable as to it's quality, and as a general rule if it's carried by big box stores then buyer beware. I hate to say it but all the action is with companies like Festools, Mirka, Fein, etc. Everything else is rapidly turning into Craftsman, and I suspect there are some names that are already sharing factories and product lines with Craftsman (though I won't name them because I don't know for sure).

Shame on Husq. for getting tangled up in this nonsense. Now I have to worry about them too. Actually, I will just stop buying Husqvarna, I guess.


I'm fairly certain that alot of Craftsman cordless tools share DNA with Ryobi....least at one time, if not currently.

Rick Potter
03-22-2012, 4:01 AM
I beat the system once. Needed a gas wall furnace for a rental I was working on for my dad. Lowes and HD both had them, but one (don't remember which) was a hundred bucks cheaper than the other. Bought it at the expensive store, they price matched plus 10% of the price, not the difference. Ended up saving about $150 on the same unit. Haven't found too many other things that are the same at both stores.

Rick Potter

Brian Elfert
03-22-2012, 7:58 AM
I have seen plenty of stuff sold at Lowes that has an L added to the model number. My belief is the reason Lowes does this is so they don't have to price match if they don't want to. They can claim it is an exclusive model when it really is no different than the same item sold at Home Depot except the model number.

I'm pretty sure Ryobi is making a lot of Craftsman tools. Emerson Electric used to make most of the stationary power tools, but I thought I read that Ryobi had taken over. The cordless stuff is made by Ryobi or perhaps TTI the parent company of Ryobi.

David Weaver
03-22-2012, 8:13 AM
4 years ago when I bought a string trimmer, I went to the local pro lawn shop and looked at the trimmers (they were carrying shindaiwa and echo at the time). The echo trimmers in the the pro shop were US made. The same model of trimmer at HD was made in china. Same price.

So your choice was to buy a US made echo trimmer from a guy who fixes and services commercial lawn folks, or go buy a chinese made echo trimmer at the Borg. Tough choice, huh?

I got the shindaiwa, and when I wanted a gas hedge trimmer, I got a stihl.

But when I went back to get it and told the guy that HD had chinese made echo trimmers, he looked at me like I had three eyes and said "are you sure you're not mistaken?" They're still there, with some US made trimmers mixed in. The echo stuff at the pro shop last I checked was all still US made, and they'd picked up stihl.

Some stuff is the same, and some of it's different at the borg. Best way to avoid having to figure out what is or isn't is just to not buy there to begin with.

Matt Meiser
03-22-2012, 8:37 AM
Best way to avoid having to figure out what is or isn't is just to not buy there to begin with.

That's exactly what I meant by my comment about Stihl. I know what I'm getting--I just choose the dealer I like which is the hardest part because there are 2 within 10 minutes that I like.

This year's Stihl purchase is hedge trimmers. I just yesterday called the dealer, talked to a guy who's known me for several years--the owner who's known me since I was 6 (literally--she was a teenager working for her mom and dad when my dad used to take me with him when he'd buy his garden seeds there) wasn't available--told him what I was looking for and he told me the best model for my needs. Not the cheapest but not the most expensive either. Like they usually recommend I'm going the first step into the pro line to get a good durable machine. I told him I'll be in to pick it up on Friday and I'm guessing it'll be gassed up, tuned and generally ready to go.

Anyone want to buy some electric hedge trimmers and a several-feet-short-of-100' extension cord? :D

Brian Elfert
03-22-2012, 8:58 AM
I have both a Stihl line trimmer and backpack blower that I bought from the local hardware store. The line trimmer is the lowest end product Stihl makes if I recall correctly, but it works fine for my small yard. I'll buy good stuff when it makes sense, but sometimes the local dealer charges way too much for something I won't use all that much.

I have my doubts that that Echo trimmer at Home Depot is really the same model as the one at the local dealer. Is the model number on the unit really exactly the same? How would Echo know which is USA made and which is China made for parts and such if the model number was the same?

David Weaver
03-22-2012, 9:12 AM
Yes, same model number, same look all the way down to the price. Even when there are two at the borg on the rack and one is US and one is china made, you can't tell the difference without turning them over and looking at the sticker telling the origin. Maybe it's an issue of demand from the Borg, and additional production is done with the same parts in china, to supplement the US stuff (it is definitely puzzling when you see two different origins at the same store for the same model and price).

The cynic in me says that they would be all chinese at some point, but I think the last I looked at the borg, some of them were still US made. I will never, not ever, buy a tool at the borg when it's the same price at an independent pro shop (I would easily pay a 20% difference, too, but I don't have to). The days of the borg and lowes having low prices (relative to other types of retail places that might carry the same thing) are long gone now that most of the independent dealers are gone, too, and both of them have saturated the entire market. The only way to grow earnings now is to increase margin, and that can only be done by cheaper products or higher prices or both.

Matt Meiser
03-22-2012, 9:20 AM
I'd submit that its actually more important to pay more for gas-powered tools that will sit longer without use than those you'll use lightly but regularly. The gas kills the carbs.

David Weaver
03-22-2012, 9:33 AM
Stabil?

I only run about a gallon a year through my trimmer, so the gas in the carb could theoretically be almost two years old, and i've been OK. With untreated gas, I've definitely had some hard first-of-the-season starts.

Matt Meiser
03-22-2012, 9:36 AM
I do use Stabil religiously. I also drain as much gas as I can from the small equipment and run it dry. Even with that my BORG string trimmer was a hard-starter. The Stihl stuff is all pretty easy.

David Weaver
03-22-2012, 10:13 AM
Same with the only stihl piece of equipment that I have, it gets used only twice a year (a hedge trimmer) and it always starts easy - better than any other small equipment I've ever used other than maybe honda.

Kevin W Johnson
03-22-2012, 12:45 PM
I'd submit that its actually more important to pay more for gas-powered tools that will sit longer without use than those you'll use lightly but regularly. The gas kills the carbs.

Seek out a gas station that sells ethanol free gas too, use that in all of your small engines.

Dave Lehnert
03-22-2012, 2:47 PM
I have both a Stihl line trimmer and backpack blower that I bought from the local hardware store. The line trimmer is the lowest end product Stihl makes if I recall correctly, but it works fine for my small yard. I'll buy good stuff when it makes sense, but sometimes the local dealer charges way too much for something I won't use all that much.

I have my doubts that that Echo trimmer at Home Depot is really the same model as the one at the local dealer. Is the model number on the unit really exactly the same? How would Echo know which is USA made and which is China made for parts and such if the model number was the same?

Serial number is the key. That's why a dealer is so insistent on a serial number when looking for parts. Just walking in and saying "I need a carb for model 123ABC trimmer" does not help.

An argument could be made just because a dealer sells the same product with the same model number is no sign theirs is better. For all we know it could not be as good. A dealer is set up to deal with problems (Repairs) where the big box is not(Don't want returns). A dealer unit may be made cheaper because they need more profit per item vs a Big box ?????? I have no idea. There is so much gray area with brands that no one could ever know for sure.

Brian Elfert
03-22-2012, 3:25 PM
I know the local Home Depot stores farm out power equipment repairs to local repair places. I bought my previous Honda lawn mower from Home Depot in 2001 before the local hardware store sold Honda. It needed a recall done and Home Depot sent it out to the local hardware store to get fixed! (I would have bought locally that time if they had Honda at the time.)

David Weaver
03-22-2012, 4:46 PM
I don't know if that's universal, but it probably is close to it. I don't think they could economically staff power equipment repair people.

I knew a couple of repair guys at two different facilities and both of them said when they got stuff from the BORG, if they were busy, it went to the end of the line until their proper customers were helped first.

Back home where I grew up, we lost our good local dealer who specialized in wheel horse (which is an awfully popular thing in central pa, or was at least), and several other brands. They were a full service shop, and it's basically the HD effect.

harry hood
03-22-2012, 7:27 PM
Honda makes a lawn mower for Home Depot that looks the same and is priced the same as the model sold at independent Honda dealers. The thing is the Home Depot model is a different model number than the model sold at the other retailers. I doubt the Home Depot model is more cheaply built since it costs the same.

Actually, the fact that it is priced the same would suggest that is more cheaply built (not necessarily to a different spec. though) since the margins at big box stores are smaller for manufacturers. Essentially Walmart, Home Depot, etc. will offer an initial price to the manufacturer that is less than what they usually get and specify a schedule of price decreases that the manufacturer is supposed to meet through magic "efficiencies" that supposedly they haven't already found. You can only squeeze labor so much, offer so many rebate tricks, and so on before you'll need to start making a different product that looks like the original. I used to work in the process side of this mess doing mathematical modelling, needless to say my money doesn't go to those places.

Brian Elfert
03-22-2012, 7:39 PM
Actually, the fact that it is priced the same would suggest that is more cheaply built (not necessarily to a different spec. though) since the margins at big box stores are smaller for manufacturers. Essentially Walmart, Home Depot, etc. will offer an initial price to the manufacturer that is less than what they usually get and specify a schedule of price decreases that the manufacturer is supposed to meet through magic "efficiencies" that supposedly they haven't already found. You can only squeeze labor so much, offer so many rebate tricks, and so on before you'll need to start making a different product that looks like the original. I used to work in the process side of this mess doing mathematical modelling, needless to say my money doesn't go to those places.

Home Depot's price on the Honda mower is $740. The local hardware store was selling their model for $700, but I'm not sure if the price went up when they got their stock in. Home Depot is actually charging more so far as I know. I saved $200 by buying at Home Depot due to a coupon and the store credits I bought. Even if a few of the parts are different I doubt it is worth $200 more to go to the local dealer.

My last Honda mower from Home Depot lasted 10 years. I killed it by not changing the oil often enough. It started burning a lot of oil end of last summer and it isn't feasible for me to fix economically. In 2001 the model numbers sold at Home Depot and other dealers were the same. I have no idea if the products were really the same or not.

Larry Edgerton
03-22-2012, 7:39 PM
We have a great local Husky dealer, and they do service for the borg as well. If I walk in carrying a tool it "Hi Larry, what can we do for you" as they push the borg project off to the side.

David, if you get a chance you may want to read "The WallMart Effect". WallMart was the role model for all of these stores that are choking quality of product and quality of life out of this country. Interesting read.

Larry

Dave Lehnert
03-22-2012, 8:18 PM
I know of a local, Big name brand dealer, that was well known to put product to the back of the line if it came from the home center or not accept it for repair at all. The big box flexed their muscle and the big name manufacture walked in one day and took their dealership away. They are now hanging on by a thread. I look for them to go under this year.

I'm not too sure why dealers act like this. They make way more on service than they ever will on selling equipment. I would be happy that the big box is selling a ton of product that will need service.

Brian Elfert
03-22-2012, 9:39 PM
David, if you get a chance you may want to read "The WallMart Effect". WallMart was the role model for all of these stores that are choking quality of product and quality of life out of this country. Interesting read.


The interesting thing is Walmart used to be big on American made products. A lot of people say that changed after Sam Walton died.

A big problem is simply the lack of American made consumer products. Most consumers aren't going to spend extra time seeking out an American made product for a $2 purchase. They may seek out American made products for larger purchases, but even then it can be hard to find American made goods. I've been looking for a specialized socket this evening and it is hard to know what is made in the USA and what is is imported.

Even if it cost us all an extra 10% to buy American made goods our economy would probably be better off with more people working.

harry hood
03-23-2012, 1:34 AM
The interesting thing is Walmart used to be big on American made products. A lot of people say that changed after Sam Walton died.

Well, their marketing department was big on using it as a slogan anyway. It wasn't clear how much of what they sold was actually made in America by the time anybody outside of the middle of the country had heard of them in the late 1980s. By the time they had taken over low-end retail "Made in America" didn't mean much anyway because of the exclusion to the FTC's regulation for the CNMI government.