3.5 hrs. Start to Finish - a review of General WTF

[John Keeton]

I used the General WTF finish for the first time on the Copper Handled Pitcher posted a week or so ago. I commented then that I wanted to do a piece with a high gloss finish to see how WTF performed. While the satin finish on the pitcher was a good fit, I like a gloss on many of the pieces I turn. I have been fairly happy with WOP, but we are all looking for the perfect all round finish, I think.

Let's just cut to the chase and say - I have found my "go to" finish!:D This stuff is fantastic!

This is a piece of Claro Walnut that didn't have a lot of figure, but had some beautiful color. When I cut it round, it showed some season cracks that were filled with CA. Dimensions are about 6" x 3". The form is compliments of my mentor, fellow moderator and good friend, Steve Schlumpf! I wanted a form I could do quickly, as this was really about the finish, not the turning.

I rarely keep time on a piece. Mostly, I am not sure I would want to know, and I am fairly certain Bill Wyko doesn't want to know on his pieces either!!:eek: But, on this one, I really wanted an idea of how quickly I could do a piece - start to finish using WTF.

This was completed over 3 days, simply because of available time slots. It took 45 minutes to turn the form, about 20 minutes to sand it and lay on a couple coats of shellac. hollowing was about 45 minutes - 1.25" hole makes a HUGE difference vs. a 7/8" hole! Sanding the interior, reversing and turning off the bottom - another 30-40 minutes.

The finishing went like this - applied 5 coats, the first of which dried in about 6 minutes. Bear in mind that I had optimal conditions - 80* (yes, 80*! - rare for March 18), low humidity, sunshine and a slight breeze. I was outside. Additional coats dried as quick as I could apply them - 15 minutes for the first 5 coats. I immediately dry sanded with 1200, and applied about 6-7 more coats. Dry sanded again with 1200, taking care this time to really level the finish. Immediately Triple buffed at 850rpm with Tripoli, WD, and Ren wax. About 1.5 hours for finishing, and just over 3.5 hours total!

Claro walnut was a good test for this finish. It is very open grained and I often have difficulty with WOP filling the grain - it seems to avoid the pores. The WTF filled exceptionally well. In fact, I think another 4-5 coats and this piece would look like it had a full "grand piano" lacquer finish. The clarity is exceptional, and it has a good feel.

The only "con" is that it dries so quickly, it simply does not level. Perhaps in a different environment - cooler, more humidity, no sunshine, etc., things would be different. However, when I did the pitcher, it dried nearly as quickly then. I didn't find this to be a problem, however, as is sands great with 1200, and it can be sanded immediately. By that, I mean immediately - as quickly as I went back inside the shop and got a piece of sandpaper!

The shellac base helped in many ways. It filled the pores a little, and was an initial sealer that allowed the first coat of WTF to lay on the surface and dry very quickly.

Thought you might like to know my findings! I didn't really post this as a "turning project" thread, but you are welcome to comment as desired.

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[David DeCristoforo]

Arrrghhh! My eyes!!!

Great looking form, John. That finish is.... well.... shiny! And the walnut doesn't look too bad either!

[charlie knighton]

glad you like it John, we all have an idea of what we want, it is very evenly applied, great form

[Harvey Ghesser]

John, the form is georgous and the finish is georgouser!! I'll definitely try it and thanks so much for posting your results.

[Nate Davey]

Well John, if that's the best you can do:D. Beautiful and very well written. Will this be added to the WIP thread?

[Sid Matheny]

Looks great to me and I had hear some bad tales on WTF but now I think I may have to give it a try.

Sid

[Roger Chandler]

Yep...........I agree about the WTF, although I have not done a review on it! ;) Bernie Wieshapl got my head thinking on this finish with his comments a few months back........I like it because of two reasons..........it has a nice finished look first and foremost, and it dries quickly........

It is a water based polyurethane with extra dryers in it..........ideal for wood turners...........I guess that is why they call it the Woodturners Finish............make sense to me.

Nice form on that claro, John, and really nice finish! :D

[Reed Gray]

I almost never go for that type of finish. If I want some gloss, I like an old can of whatever poly, that has thickened up. Since it is more solids, it builds more quickly. I have a friend (last name of Woods, really, I am not kidding) who has done flooring for ever. He uses wood floor finishes. Again, they have more solids, build quickly, and are supposed to be hard as nails when cured. Not sure how they would compare though.

robo hippy

[Doug W Swanson]

I've used the WTF a few times and I have yet to get that kind of gloss to it. I guess I need to add more coats!

Beautiful work, John!

[Alan Trout]

I use it on the inside of my pieces because it drys quickly and can be sanded quickly. Really good stuff but a bit expansive. By the way I like that piece or walnut along with a wonderful form.

Alan

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

John,
I've never been a fan of WOP even though you've done beautiful work with it. No finish I've seen in WOP compares to the depth this finish produced for you. You also seem to have mastered the art of photographing hi gloss finishes so they show off their best qualities. Maybe someday you can tell us how to do it. Anyway, yet another beautiful job of turning, surface prep and finish. I like the words I like the beat, I give it a "105" because 95 just isn't high enough.
faust

[Russ Massery]

All I can say is Wow! You really have this turning thing down. Beautiful John.

[Joe McMahon]

2 1/2 hours for the complete turning???? John, when can I come down for lessons? The piece is just beautiful! (The finish isn't too bad 'neither. ;-)

[Richard Kennedy UK]

I need to practice a lot more 3.5 hours wow! and that finish is amazing! I am sourcing a tin here in the UK whilst I type!

[philip labre]

Thanks for the review, John. I really like the use of shellac as a sealer to avoid raising the grain.

[Mike Peace]

I have heard good things about WTF so I guess I need to give it a try when I run out of AO.

[Curt Fuller]

Man, I can't get past that beautiful form and wood to evaluate the finish! That's a beautiful HF for sure and the GWTF looks like something worth trying. I like anything that can look that good that fast.

[Fred Belknap]

John I have to agree that the finish looks top notch, walnut bowl ain't no slouch either. You never mentioned how you applied the finish. I use mostly WOP and oil finish and very low tech method to apply, like a soft blue shop towel folded a few times. I'm always looking for a quicker better way. I have even been known to use the K. Burns 10 minute finish on occasion. It is nice but totally different look.

[John Keeton]

Thanks, guys for the comments on the form. I do appreciate it. Fred, I used a piece of paper shop towel for the first 5 coats, and then switched to a cosmetic sponge wedge for the remainder. I tends to hold a bit more finish.

Reed, I agree the floor finishes have more solids and build well, but they don't dry in 2 minutes! The total application time for all coats was less than 35 minutes. Most of the remainder was spent sanding and buffing. I would guess the first dry sanding took 10-15 minutes, and the second a little longer. Buffing didn't take long at all.

Alan, the cost for a quart is about $2 more than Minwax WOP in a quart. Coverage seems about the same, and my guess is the shelf life will be better, but that remains to be seen. I certainly won't miss that gunked up top on the can of WOP!

[Jim Burr]

Nice chunk of claro John!! What do you think the result of sanding sealer and then WTF would be on walnut? Sometimes, the open pore look adds texture...sometimes the "glass look" really takes the show! I think most of your claro works benefits from the refined smoothness a gloss WOP style finish.

[Carl Civitella]

I will give it try. 2oz bottle for $6.99 at woodcraft is not to much to invest, to try it out to see if it works for you. I have been looking for something that would give a quicker finish on a larger turning then pens. C/A does not go over well in larger turnings for me. Do you apply it spinning on the lathe or when it is off the lathe ? Carl

[John Keeton]

Carl, if you are going to try it, the 2 oz. will probably do a turning or two, but the quart is about $28- much cheaper per ounce!

Jim, the Claro walnut is more open pore than black walnut, and as you know, it often has a lot of color variation and figure. By sanding sealer, I am not sure what you mean. I don't use anything for a sealer except shellac and on rare occasion, lacquer if I want to avoid the amber tint.

With a gloss finish, I want it flat with no, or minimal, grain/pores showing. On a matte or satin look, I am OK with some texture in the grain. The WTF seems to fill the grain much better than does WOP. I guess from a technical view, the WTF is, in fact, a WOP! It has urethane resins, and is usually applied by wiping - seems to fit!

[Greg Just]

Great looking piece John and I love the finish. I think your use of shellac helped a lot to build the finish up quicker. I have used a pint of WTF and have generally been pleased. I would be curious to know if you have every used Minwax water based poly. It is 1/2 the price of WTF and I get similar results with the Minwax versus the WTF.

[Jamie Donaldson]

That's a wonderful gloss John, and with about 12 applications you say? I haven't previously used more than 3 coats of WTF, and no buffing was attempted, but it appears the the WTF is about as close to a do it all finish as we've ever had.

[Bill Wyko]

LAMO I got a goood chuckle my friend. I have no idea how long this stuff takes to do. Beats sitin on my rear watching tv though.
As far as your piece goes, That looks absolutely fantastic!!! Beautiful form and figure in the wood. The finish, superb. I'll be looking in to this stuff. Very well done.

[John Keeton]

I would be curious to know if you have every used Minwax water based poly. It is 1/2 the price of WTF and I get similar results with the Minwax versus the WTF.Greg, I used water based poly in years past on a couple of flatwork projects, but wasn't impressed. I suspect the formula has changed substantially. In looking at the Minwax, it appears drying time between coats is 30 minutes, so I am not sure one could apply as many coats in as short a time. However, it might be worth a try - if I can pull myself away from this product!

[Steve Schlumpf]

John.... I love the form!!! I am surprised at how well the finish brought the wood to life! I have used a water based finish in the past and it just didn't do anything to enhance the grain. This looks great and makes me wonder how it would do on Curly!!? Will have to check into it at some point as I am getting a little tired of fighting with WOP to get the end result that I want!

[Josh Bowman]

John thanks for the info in the WTF. I have never heard of it. I'll have to try some. Great form and I agree that the gloss is almost piano quality.

[Neil Bosdet]

Wow! Fabulous John. I endeavour to gain your skill level. Thanks for the tips on the finish. I'll give it a try.

[Baxter Smith]

Great wood, form, and finish John! Thanks for the details on your application procedure. Sounds like a smart choice for that type of look. I will have to give it a try at some point.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Well John that is a beautiful HF and finish. Love the form. I have been using the WTF now for about 3 months and love it. Like you I generally put 10 to 12 coats on. When it was cold I use one of my wife's old hair dryers. I use it on low heat and low fan. Even when cold and damp I can put 8 to 10 coats on in about 30 minutes. Thanks for posting your findings.

[Ted Calver]

Beautiful work John. You've convinced me to give it a try. I typically avoid film finishes because I don't have the patience to follow the regimen. Shoot, just five minutes between coats...don't even need to take off the gloves in between. That's pretty darn good for a "grand piano" finish.

[robert baccus]

Georgeous piece. did you apologize for the wood? bueatiful+++. appreciate the gloss test- you saved a lot of experimentation by us beginners. it really looks good and good gloss is hard to do sometimes. and nailed the shape as usual. thanks-----old forester

[Scott Hackler]

You sure got a great finish on that! I will have to look into getting some of that. I like the WOP finish but hate the waiting game. Looks like this is the best of both worlds.

[John Keeton]

Thanks for all the follow up views and comments! Let me emphasis - I was not able to get a flat, level finish that was capable of producing this look without sanding with 1200. So, figure that into the equation. Doesn't take long, but it is worth the added effort.
John.... I love the form!!! ...I have used a water based finish in the past and it just didn't do anything to enhance the grain. This looks great and makes me wonder how it would do on Curly!!?Steve, I do hope you like the form....since it was copied straight out of the Schlumpf playbook!!:) I appreciate the inspiration and all the help you have been over the last couple of years! As to the curly, I think it would do fine. I suspect the shellac will be part of the finishing schedule for WTF, as I like the added benefits. I typically use it as an undercoat for WOP, and it also works well to pop the curl.

[Alan Trout]

Thanks for all the follow up views and comments! Let me emphasis - I was not able to get a flat, level finish that was capable of producing this look without sanding with 1200. So, figure that into the equation. Doesn't take long, but it is worth the added effort.

John,

From my gloss finishing experience I would say this is with any finish that I use. To get that flat level finish it has to be sanded. Really no question about it. I like your idea of using shellac under the finish as I think this will control the raising of the grain.

Alan

[Peter Elliott]

Nice review John.

Did you use dewax shellac? Since dewax is safer to use as a base coat, I'm assuming you did. I have to try that with my next piece.

I tested this out a few weeks ago when I got samples for our DAMP meet up. I was lucky to meet the guy who actually designs most of the finishes for GF. Great guy and he sometimes pops into Woodcraft during demo days.

Just be cautioned when initially wiping onto bare wood that you wipe/apply to one area. If the product drips or runs to say the opposite side you're working it will leave a "lap" mark. Which is hard to sand away and flooding that area may not take away the lap mark. My suggestion is to work carefully on one side then move on. John wouldn't have seen this because of adding a shellac base coat.

My shop was about 65 and dry - It took well over and hour to dry each wipe on coat (thoroughly dry so I could sand). It's about 60% water so of course temps will play a big role. I think you would be safe letting it harden over night in a dry/warm area for final buffing after applying all your coats.

It buffs great, I mean really great if you are looking for a gloss finish. It is a product that does need to be either buffed or finished sanded with a grit over 1000 (my opinion).

Going to try it again with Johns idea of a shellac base (I use dewax) and see if this weeks temps make a big difference in time.

John, that is a great piece of work!

[John Keeton]

Peter, I never use anything but dewaxed shellac. That goes back to flat work days. Using the shellac was part of the "experiment" here, in that the previous piece I finished with the WTF was done without using shellac. I wanted to see how it would perform over the shellac. It did great, and that will be the standard schedule with future pieces.

I do think I had optimal weather conditions for the piece I did - perfect for drying.

The viscosity of WTF is thin, and it is prone to run. I will say this about "lap marks" - the problem with film finishes is usually a "witness line" when one sands through the coats. That is one of the advantages of lacquer and shellac in that they "burn in" to the previous coat. I had a couple of run marks on this piece and sanded them level without any evidence of a witness line from previous coats - impressive!

I look forward to hearing from some of you regarding your experiences with using this finish. Hopefully, I will not have led you astray!

[Peter Elliott]

Peter, I never use anything but dewaxed shellac. That goes back to flat work days. Using the shellac was part of the "experiment" here, in that the previous piece I finished with the WTF was done without using shellac. I wanted to see how it would perform over the shellac. It did great, and that will be the standard schedule with future pieces.

I do think I had optimal weather conditions for the piece I did - perfect for drying.

The viscosity of WTF is thin, and it is prone to run. I will say this about "lap marks" - the problem with film finishes is usually a "witness line" when one sands through the coats. That is one of the advantages of lacquer and shellac in that they "burn in" to the previous coat. I had a couple of run marks on this piece and sanded them level without any evidence of a witness line from previous coats - impressive!

Was pretty sure you used dewaxed shellac. Yes, everyone should really give this stuff a try. I know I am going to use it for several pieces I have to finish this week.

[Russell Neyman]

John and Gang, threads like this one make the Creek a regular stop for me on my morning Internet rounds. Thanks for posting it. I have been slowly drifting toward polyurethanes because of the difficulites with getting lacquer to work well in my cold, damp shop, with generally good results. I'll try the woodturner's finish, too, thanks to your post.

WOP doesn't always "wipe on" does it? Some days I use a foam brush, and others the temperature dictates a paper towel inside of an old piece of cotton, like a french polish bundle. In the end, it comes down to the final wet-sanding and buffing, I suppose.

You are right that a high gloss finish looks strange if the wood grain isn't completely filled. In the past, I've burnished in the shellac base coats with good success then steel wooled it, and that fills to some degree. Recently, I tried putting down a generous coat of boiled linseed oil, then rubbing the vessel with fine sawdust with the lathe turning slowly, and was surprised how well that closed things up. The subsequent shellac coats tied it all together.

Have you ever used a pore filler? I've heard about it and seen it in demonstrations, but never tried it on a bowl.

[John Keeton]

Russell, I frequently wet sand the BLO and seal with shellac for the very reasons you do! However, it does darken the piece and sometimes I avoid the BLO for that reason. I also apply the shellac while on the lathe, so it sounds like we follow similar schedules on that. Apply 2-3 coats, buff with 00 steel wool on low speed, apply another couple coats, buff with 0000, and then burnish at high speed with a piece of paper towel. At that point, one usually has a very nice looking base.

I have not used an official "grain filler" on a lathe piece, but I have taken Titebond filler, mixed in some dye, and used that as a paste on a mahogany finial piece I turned on a commission. It worked fairly well after being sanded back. I followed with some of the same dye, and was able to replicate the look of old mahogany.

I like experimenting with new finishing techniques - but, no matter what, I HATE sanding!!:D Nothing about any of this has changed that! Fortunately, the WTF sands easily and levels quickly.

[Rob Cunningham]

John,
Fantastic wood, form and a flawless finish.
Did you wipe on the finish or spray?

[Jon Prouty]

Russell, I frequently wet sand the BLO and seal with shellac for the very reasons you do! However, it does darken the piece and sometimes I avoid the BLO for that reason. I also apply the shellac while on the lathe, so it sounds like we follow similar schedules on that. Apply 2-3 coats, buff with 00 steel wool on low speed, apply another couple coats, buff with 0000, and then burnish at high speed with a piece of paper towel. At that point, one usually has a very nice looking base.

Hi John,
couple quick questions... do you use dewaxed shellac from a spray can or is there a version that is dewaxed in liquid form? Also, when you apply the first 2-3 coats and buff - is this buffing while the shellac is still wet or after it cures (which is pretty darn fast). I assume this buffing of the base is while the shellac is dry? I have had some orange peeling on my shellac recently but figure it is casued by applying too heavy a coat.

Lastly, for a form like this I would apply WTF or WOP off the lathe with the piece inverted on a "stick" in the hole. Is this how you are doing this is there a magic way to hold a piece while applying the finish?

Thanks
Jon

[robert baccus]

If what you are using works go for it. a good heavy bodied SS(mohawk is my choice) wiped or brushed (2 coats) on will fill pores on any wood and sands like talcum powder. sanding to bare wood is 2 minutes usually. i use 2 coats straight from the can(milky & much faster drying tha shellac) or 3-5 if sprayed and sanded. it seals(no more soaking in) and forget whiskers. then apply your finish coats. grain pores are simply not a problem. there are many useless sanding sealers out there--this is the only one i recommend. i probably use 3-4 gallons/year. it is very thick and if sprayed/thinned it goes a long way. My friend Dennis Ford has commented on it here in the past also.--------------------old forester

[robert baccus]

PS the problem refered to above is cured by using retarder( a slow drying thinner) which is almost necessary using laquer in anything but bluebird weather. it is available in spraycans usually labeled laq. or finish leveler.-----old forester

[Rick Markham]

I'm glad you like it John, after I saw your copper handled pitcher, I ordered a quart. Hopefully it will show up soon, I'm excited now. Beautiful finish on a fantastic claro form!

[John Keeton]

Hi John,
couple quick questions... do you use dewaxed shellac from a spray can or is there a version that is dewaxed in liquid form? Also, when you apply the first 2-3 coats and buff - is this buffing while the shellac is still wet or after it cures (which is pretty darn fast). I assume this buffing of the base is while the shellac is dry? I have had some orange peeling on my shellac recently but figure it is casued by applying too heavy a coat.

Lastly, for a form like this I would apply WTF or WOP off the lathe with the piece inverted on a "stick" in the hole. Is this how you are doing this is there a magic way to hold a piece while applying the finish?

Thanks
JonJon, I use Zinsser Sealcoat, which is their only dewaxed in a can so far as I know. It is a 2# cut. I would prefer a heavier cut, but am simply too lazy to mix my own! I have several ounces of flakes, and need to use them up, so perhaps I need to reconsider my philosophy.:D I wipe it on with a piece of paper shop towel while turning the spindle by hand. The first coat will soak in quickly. I usually apply another within a couple of minutes, and let it dry for 4-5 minutes before buffing with the 00. Then repeat and buff with 0000. Make sure to remove all traces of the steel wool (or, use synthetic) if using a water based finish over it as the fragments can rust under the finish.

As for applying the finish, in my case, the WTF was drying so fast I could do the top, and actually hold the piece to do the bottom, while blending the edge. For WOP, I often will use a tapered piece of wood in the hole for support.

Robert, I have some Behlens' sanding sealer, which is a similar product. To be honest, I don't like using those products simply because of the chemicals involved. They contain some of the worst of the worst, and shellac is pretty benign. It is even used in food and drug products. Shellac is also kind of a staple for me - I use it between coats of finish, I use it for color, and it can be tinted with dyes. No doubt, the sealers do work, however.

[Peter Elliott]

Amazed you like a 2lb cut... for me, 1lb is about tops.. maybe 1.5 mixed. I use it a lot in the flat world. Not on turnings, yet!

The spray can of dewax is about .5lb to .75lb cut and is fairly good for spraying projects. But still keep it light coats. You can respray a coat in about 5mins or less. 1st coat will raise the grain some (depending on wood) knock that down but the next layers will burn into each other fairly well. Dewax can be coated by almost all other types of finish.

If you looking to fill the grain on a natural wood - McFeelys sells a clear grain filler, which is rare and works well. For dyed projects, you can find some grain fillers that take dye fairly well. But you should test out a sample!

all good info here!

[Prashun Patel]

Poly makes a great pore filler on the lathe. Slop some on and wetsand it in. Slurry develops fast on the lathe. Let dry and sand it back. Then topcoat it with anything. Filling with shellac is a little different. I prefer to paint on a thick 3# cut on the lathe (not spinning), paying no mind to drips runs and sags. After dry, I wetsand it back with water or MS with the lathe on. It can take a couple apps for this. But if I'm doing a shellac topcoat, it's just simpler to stick wiht the same finish.


John, I'm surprised nobody's asked: what exactly IS WTF? Is it a standard varnish resin with some accellerator for drying? Is it an acrylic resin? A glue?

[Bernie Weishapl]

Prashun it is a General Finishes WoodTurners Finish. It is a water/oil hybrid finish. It is thin and goes on nicely like John said with a paper shop towel. It does not darken light woods and has no offensive smell to it. I have been using it for a couple of months now and love it.

[Prashun Patel]

Bernie-
Yep, I know it's a hybrid and it looks like it's a waterborne polyurethane finish. I'm going to try some.

[Tim Rinehart]

Wonderful review John and exquisite claro turning. I think we are always looking for that 'perfect' finish and one that doesn't challenge us or cause need for $$ equipment to carry it out. This stuff appears to have brought it down to the masses. Thanks for taking the time to document your experience...as said, this is what makes regular stops in here so valuable.
Looks like I found something to spend my gift certificate for Woodcraft on!
Thanks again!

[Roger Chandler]

I use the Zinzer seal coat as well...........it will pop the grain and seal the wood for a nice prep surface for the WTF.

[wes murphy]

Has anyone used the Behlens WTF in comparision? Just bought of that stuff ... by mistake.

[Jerry Wright]

The Behlens that I use is a shellac - alcohol finish. It is not water based.

[robert baccus]

John, i'm not knocking shellac at all. a good french polish is the prettiest gloss finish in the world. it is also a good sealer. if i have an issue with it it's the durability, slow drying, and slow pore filling i experience. it does pop color almost like oil and i like that. PS behlen changed their formula due to the california market and their newer SS and laq, really sucks. the co. informed me that the mohawk brand is made by the same co. and uses the old formulas. most of the cabinet guys have switched to mohawk because the sanding is like chalk. i also use their cat. laquer which has got to be twice as tough as their standard wood laquers. I find it's actually hard to wet sand if allowed to dry for several days--the co. says it keeps on crosslinking for a long time. regardless of the methods ect. that wal-nut bowl is flawless as usual.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Nice John! Beautiful piece and great finish!

It's very interesting to hear, and see, your experience with the GF turner's finish. I have used other General Finishes water based products on my turnings with the same awesome high sheen result (I like to level the finish with 1200 as well), but in a longer time frame. I have liked using shellac as a sealer also, although I tend to let it cure overnight before topping it with water based stuff. I get a little paranoid about traces of alcohol not completely gassing off, but maybe that won't effect the bond. Have you noticed any problems when using WB topcoats over shellac in such a short time frame? Also, I have been applying with an HVLP sprayer, but you really got a great result without the fuss of dragging out a spray gun (and the cleaning of it). I think I may have to give that product a try now!

- Hutch

[shaun gardner]

John,
How did you prevent streaks from forming in the finish. Everytime I have used WTF I get streaks. I seal with shellac and put 5 coats on as well. My sucess at buffing has been a little rough. The finish melts quick with Tripoli. I realloy like that piece you did. Nice Job!
shaun

[John Keeton]

Shaun, I had LOTS of streaks, but those were ignored until the sanding was done. My goal was to get as heavy a build as possible, and then level that finish and buff to a gloss. The process is the same for me regardless of finish, but some finishes seem to work better than others. The WTF was excellent in that regard.

On the subject of buffing, perhaps you are using too much speed and pressure. It is the heat that melts the finish. I buff somewhere between 750 - 1000rpm, and do so with moderate pressure - letting the compound do what it does. Don't stay too long in one spot. I buff quickly, but cover the entire form perhaps three times with each of the compounds, getting a little better gloss each pass.

[Don McClure]

Did you spray or brush your base coats of shellac?

[John Keeton]

Don, I wipe them on with a piece of paper shop towel while turning the spindle by hand. After 2-3 coats, I will turn on the lathe and spin the piece slowly to buff the finish down with steel wool - synthetic would be preferred with the WTF finish, but I don't have any! Just make sure to remove all fragments to avoid a rust situation. Then apply 2-3 coats again and repeat. It drys in a matter of minutes.

[phil harold]

John,
Thanks for the review
How well does it work without the shellac?
How well does it stand up in a utility use bowl?

[Mike Cruz]

This is pretty funny, I just spent 5 minutes yesterday trying to find this thread...guess I'm not the only one.

[phil harold]

This is pretty funny, I just spent 5 minutes yesterday trying to find this thread...guess I'm not the only one.
I was actually looking for an older review but this one seems relevant

[Jerry Rhoads]

Thanks John, that was a great reveiw. Guess I better get that pint can out that I have and have another go at it.

[John Keeton]

John,
Thanks for the review
How well does it work without the shellac?
How well does it stand up in a utility use bowl?Phil, I have used it with and without the shellac. Without just means the first coat really soaks in and takes a little longer to dry - 20 minutes in my case. I don't do many bowls, and have gone exclusively to walnut oil on the ones I do. I guess my tastes have changed and I don't care for a gloss finish on a utility bowl - though I did when I first started turning.

[robert raess]

What is General WTF?

[John Keeton]

Robert, it is General Finishes WoodTurners Finish - a hybrid water and oil urethane finish that is very quick drying. Here is a link - http://www.generalfinishes.com/retail-products/water-base-top-coats-sanding-sealers/wood-turners-finish

[Mike Cruz]

General is the brand name, and WTF stands for WoodTurner's Finish.

[Rick Markham]

Great looking piece John and I love the finish. I think your use of shellac helped a lot to build the finish up quicker. I have used a pint of WTF and have generally been pleased. I would be curious to know if you have every used Minwax water based poly. It is 1/2 the price of WTF and I get similar results with the Minwax versus the WTF.

Greg, the Minwax WOP is what I use on my gloss pieces, it works really well for me, but it takes a LONG time to build up enough coats to get the nice watery gloss finish. It's worth the effort, but since John posted this, I'm hoping that I can speed up that process with the WTF. I've used the Minwax WOP because it is what is locally available to me. I've gone through probably 5 cans of that stuff, it's good until it gets towards the bottom of the can, then if you don't use it fast enough it starts to get kinda wonky (due to being exposed to the air in the can)

[Mike Cruz]

Rick, I'm not sure what JK did, but the can of WTF states that you should wait 5-7 days to buff... Granted, application is VERY quick!

[Rick Markham]

I usually wait a week or so before I buff the WOP finish too. My biggest issue with the minwax WOP is the drying time. Yes, it is "dry enough" to put a second coat on in 30 mins, however, the catch is that really only works once. Once you have more than a couple layers built up, you HAVE to wait at least 4 to 6 hours for the layers to fully dry. If you don't, then you are going to be sanding all of those off and starting over. (That's fine when you are filling the pores) but once you start floating the layers on top of each other to get the perfect smooth finish, you better wait. Otherwise you will be sanding and reworking. From what I've seen, this is much quicker for that purpose. I also really like finishing my gloss pieces on the lathe, but that ties up the machine, and it can take me a week to finish a piece (how I like it). That's not including the buffing.

So the WTF looks like it might be an excellent answer, I just need to go turn something and try it. Today might be a good day, I'm watching "tree people" cut down two giant trees in my yard. I keep expecting to see you pop around the HUMONGOUS pile of trunk, limbs and branches. I just wish it wasn't all live oak, and "Rain tree" which is basically a giant weed from what I can tell LOL

[John Keeton]

Rick, I'm not sure what JK did, but the can of WTF states that you should wait 5-7 days to buff... Granted, application is VERY quick!Hmmmm.....I was sure the can said 5-7 minutes, 'cause that is about how long I waited!!:D Seemed to do quite well, actually.

[Mike Cruz]

Rick, look outside. See me?! I'm waving to you. Hey, Rick. Oh well, I guess I'll just go home...

Sounds to me like you don't necessarily need a finish that dries faster, you NEED A SECOND LATHE! Call it a "Finishing Lathe"...;) "Honey, if I had a finishing lathe, I could crank these things out SO much faster, make a ton more money, and pay for the thing in NO time!" :D

[Rick Markham]

Rick, look outside. See me?! I'm waving to you. Hey, Rick. Oh well, I guess I'll just go home...

Sounds to me like you don't necessarily need a finish that dries faster, you NEED A SECOND LATHE! Call it a "Finishing Lathe"...;) "Honey, if I had a finishing lathe, I could crank these things out SO much faster, make a ton more money, and pay for the thing in NO time!" :D

I've always valued your professional opinion! I like the way you think, that's why your my friend! :D Wait until "the old lady" gets a load of this...

[Carl Civitella]

Hmmmm.....I was sure the can said 5-7 minutes, 'cause that is about how long I waited!!:D Seemed to do quite well, actually.

I believe it says wait 5-7 days to cure, if used as a salad bowl. I think that is what they mean. I did not read anything about buffing. Carl

[Mike Cruz]

Carl, my understanding is that one should wait until whatever finish is used to fully cure before buffing. So, that would mean 5-7 days. John seems to have done it without issue. But I think the proper process would be to wait. That is based on theory not experience. Johns results prove that you don't "have" to wait. But it would probably be a good practice to...

[Dan Forman]

John --- Great looking piece and finish. One tip I ran across somewhere on the web, for wiping, use a ball of cotton cloth wrapped with a ladies nylon stocking, supposed to help control the flow of the finish onto the object. I don't have any nylons lying about, so haven't tried this. I used this finish on a pepper mill, and a little inkwell cover, and am pleased with it, but it is difficult to get a smooth application. I use a hair dryer to speed the drying between coats, as I work in a cool basement. Next time I'll try a base coat of shellac. I didn't find that WTF pops the grain in figured maple very well by itself.

Dan