Making good edges

[Mike Holbrook]

I am running a thread on a search for a band saw to break down raw lumber, maybe even small logs, into wood usable for cabinet & furniture projects. I expect I will end up with boards with decent edges but a few waves from the band saw blade. I do not want to turn on a table saw or powered jointer at this point. I want to go straight to hand tools.

My question has to do with dressing up the edges left by the band saw with hand planes. I am interested in what plane and possibly plane attachment might be best for this work. I have a LV LA Jack and a good supply of wooden planes. Would it be a good idea to invest in a LV magnetic jointer fence for working long edges into something closer to ready for use? Maybe there is some hand made jig that would make this job easier and more accurate? It also occurs to me that people may just leave the slightly rough edge until the boards are broken down to application size and then dress them on a shooting board. Maybe it depends on each board and how the individual edge looks after ripping on the bandsaw?

I should add, I just bought the wood to make a circa 8' x 4" thick Roubo split top bench. I know this is my main plane work tool. Not sure about the vises yet, lately I am thinking leg vise for front vise and LV twin chain screw for end vise. Still thinking about a Hovarter but I just do not find enough people using them and they are expensive.

[John Coloccia]

Before worrying about edges, I break all my lumber down to rough size first. Generally, I like getting all of my wood close to final size before working on finished surfaces. That allows any stress that's going to be released to release and still leaves me wood to play with for straightening it back out.

The jointer fence is nice. I've been meaning to pick one up but I did just build a shooting board (I used to just eyeball everything and do it by feel, and that works fine, but doesn't work well at all on very thin parts like veneers).

Anyhow, I think a mistake a lot of people make is preparing wood as they go along. They need a leg, so they'll rip a long piece off a board, and then they'll flatten the whole thing, square up an edge, etc etc....finally, they'll cut somthing leg shaped, and then it moves so they need to clean it up again, and so on. It makes you touch the work multiple times, and it slows everything down. It's much easier and more effecient to cut out rough pieces, flatten, square and final dimension them all at once, and then just have at it and build what you're building.

[Jim Koepke]

In my opinion, the best plane attachment is the person using the plane.

An edge guide presumes the edge it is guiding against is already smooth.

It seems part of the journey of woodworking is planing a surface, checking it and then correcting mistakes. After time a person's eye can look at the edge and see fairly well if it is square to the adjacent edge even before checking with a square.

Part of my current endeavors is to break down a load of ash. My band saw is to underpowered to rip this. Thankfully my hand sawing is getting much better with the practice.

For smoothing it depends on the edges. The rough edge from the lumber yard is often just beat down with a #5-1/2 used like a scrub plane. Then maybe a few passes with a larger plane just to smooth the edge enough for a reference for marking the saw lines.

After cutting a #7 or 8 jointer works fine with not too many passes.

A wooden jointer plane would likely work as well. To help save the wooden sole it might be a good idea to use your LA Jack to knock off the rough spots.

One consideration is the length of the wood you will be working. My boards are 8-10' long. If you are working smaller pieces then something shorter than a jointer plane could do the job.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

John, when you "break... down to rough size", are you talking about ripping it to a rough size with a band saw, hand saw? The "getting all my wood to final size before working on finished surfaces" phase is what I am trying to visualize.

Case in point, I have 6 European Beech boards 8/4" x 9-10" x 8+'. The boards have two relatively good faces and two decent but rough edges, from the lumber yard. My plan is to make a 4" x 24" x 87-92" work bench top from these boards. The split in the top occupying a little under 2". I figure the final surface will actually be under 4" thick after being worked to final size. The actual boards are a little under 2" now. I imagine this is the result of planing the two surfaces on a planner.

Assuming I buy a good band saw in the next few weeks and use it and hand saws (crosscuts) to rough cut pieces to glue up; I would probably rip each board into two 2'" x 4" x 8' boards. So you would let these sit a while for any movement to occur and then finish them on the glue sides just before glueing, leaving the top and bottom for finishing after the two halves of the top are all glued up?

[Marko Milisavljevic]

It's much easier and more effecient to cut out rough pieces, flatten, square and final dimension them all at once, and then just have at it and build what you're building.

Can you please clarify this: do you mean you cut all rough pieces, then wait a day or two for stresses to release, then flatten etc? Otherwise it would seem you'd have to re-flatten again anyway after it moves.

[Curt Putnam]

I would think that you would want your edges pretty close to flat so you have a good reference for gluing. Both the top and the bottom of your bench top will want to be flat, not necessarily smooth, but flat. The closer you get to this with each board, the less work you have to do with the big slab. When you are gluing up the top slabs, you can use cauls across the edges to maintain alignment - tough if the edges aren't close to flat and straight.

I have an LV BU jointer for which I recently bought the fence. I use this rig to prepare edges for edge gluing into panels. It's nice to not have to worry about the edge being square. IMO, you will want a good jointer size plane to work your top. Put the toothed blade in your jack and then finish with the jointer.

[John Coloccia]

I rough cut to a rough size. So for example, if I need a blank that's 30"X3"X1", I'll rough cut a blank (usuallly on the bandsaw) to maybe 32 X 3 1/4" X 1 3/8", taking into account the way the wood wants to bend the most and leaving extra. And then I set it aside for a period of time. For furniture and stuff like that, maybe a couple of days. For guitar necks, at least a couple of weeks. Then I'll come back, bring it down to close to final size, and only then will I worry about flattening and squaring up faces and edges.

Otherwise, I spend a lot of time flattening and squaring things that just move again later. It's such a waste of time to flatten and square a big board, for example, and then cut it up only to have to redo all that work when it inevitably squirms around again. It's also so much easier to work with smaller parts, and precision is much less critical. For example, if a crosscut isn't exactly 90 degrees, it's maybe not such a big deal on a 1" wide board, but on a 12" wide board I'm way off at the other end.

I'm not a historian so I don't know what was typical of woodworking when everyone did everything with hand tools, but I end up doing a lot of work with hand tools and dealing with large pieces introduces all sorts of complications that are just not nescessary for typical small furniture and other such work.

For example, if you're making drawer fronts, how much easier is it to strike a line, stick the front on a shooting board, quickly clean up rough saw marks and plane it down to the line than it is to plane a 10ft board dead straight and square? I bet I could do 10 in a batch, from rough stock, quicker than someone could flatten and square a long board to a precise dimension along the entire length, and then cut it up. If I'm off a touch here and there on a 12" piece of wood, it doesn't matter. If I drift on a huge piece, I can start off perfectly and be all over the place by the time I get to the other side....or the middle...so I have to be far more careful. Small, handheld tools (like planes) help you a great deal when working with small pieces, but rely more on skill when the scale of the piece doesn't match the scale of the tool well.

Anyhow, that's just my opinion. I know plenty will disagree but having done it both ways, working with the smallest pieces I can works for better for me than working with big chunks and dimensioning later. Working with power tools is different. It's often impossible to do anything useful with a piece that's not dead straight and square, but with handtools I work to lines, so only the lines need to be straight :)

In your case, Mike, I wouldn't worry about it too much because the laminated top will tend to not want to warp anyhow. I would rip it into strips, and unless I ran into something that started bending all over the place immediately, I'd clean up the faces, straighten/dimension the edges and glue it up. Also, if something does move around after you cut it, the dimension is not critical. If it ends up a little thinner due to having to flatten after cutting, so what? Worst case is that you have to use an extra strip to make up the width. Then I'd let it sit for a few days to let any minor squirming happen and then bring it to my local mill and have them put it on their wide belt and flatten both sides. It will take them 10 minutes to do what it will take you all weekend to do.

Again, it's just my opion and what works for me. I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about! :D

[Sean Richards]

...
I expect I will end up with boards with decent edges but a few waves from the band saw blade. I do not want to turn on a table saw or powered jointer at this point. I want to go straight to hand tools.

My question has to do with dressing up the edges left by the band saw with hand planes. I am interested in what plane and possibly plane attachment might be best for this work. I have a LV LA Jack and a good supply of wooden planes. Would it be a good idea to invest in a LV magnetic jointer fence for working long edges into something closer to ready for use? Maybe there is some hand made jig that would make this job easier and more accurate?
...


Mike if you are going to want to use some attachment, jointer fence or some jig that makes the job easier why don't you just run it over a power jointer and get it done.

[Paul Saffold]

Having a fence for a plane is not a guarantee that the edge will be square to the face. Don't forget the lateral adjustment can throw the blade into or out of square to the bottom of the plane.

[John McPhail]

I usually cut to length or width plus an eighth inch or so, depending, before doing anything else. I dislike spending energy on wood that won't eventually be used in the piece I'm working on.

I sometimes use a fence on my jointer, I like it but don't consider it essential.

[Mark Dorman]

I have a jointer fence and used it on a few projects and thought it was great. Then the project I'm on now has to narrow of parts to be able to use the jointer fence and I totally lost the touch for freehand. I'm having to relearn and thats frustrating. So to me it's a crutch that disables rather than enables. YMMV.

[Stuart Tierney]

Case in point, I have 6 European Beech boards 8/4" x 9-10" x 8+'. The boards have two relatively good faces and two decent but rough edges, from the lumber yard.


Mike,

Please take note here...

The wood you've got there is good stuff, but it'll be 'challenging' shall we say?

Expect trouble sawing to size. Have plenty of wedges on hand to spread the saw kerf as you go.

I've used the same stuff you have there, acclimatized for 2 years, and there's so much tension in the stuff even now that it's difficult to get a clean piece out of a board without dealing with twisting and trouble. The problem was I wasn't doing it for pleasure, and I had 60 lengths, not 6.

Great stuff to work with, a little boring perhaps, but easy to cut, plane and play with, but the troubles breaking it down still scare me.

I used power all the way with it, and while it's not too bad with hand tools I suppose, the number of times I had to dig out a handsaw from a plank was ridiculous. The problem was that some planks had so much tension that even the power tools had trouble breaking it down. It was rare I could cross or rip a plank in one shot, it was often a case of several passes.

The end result was good though. :)

Good luck.

Stu.

[Bobby O'Neal]

I have the Veritas jointer fence. Really like it, and I can get the lateral adjuster dialed in pretty quick. The results are phenomenal. Makes for seamless glue ups.

[Mike Holbrook]

One of the reasons for this post has to do with comments I read on bench design threads. A good many people recommend a bench of 8' or more in length. A justification I remember reading in support of the 8' long bench sited the advantages of processing 8' boards before they were broken down. Some apparently felt that doing some or all of the process work before breaking boards into pieces saves time. I have no horse in this race as of yet.

The boards I have prepared so far have been small, but now I am stepping up to 8' boards. I want use a power jointer because I do not see the advantage, it just isn't the way I roll...lately. I asked about Veritas' & other jigs just to find out whether people liked them or not.

[Jim Koepke]

I have the Veritas jointer fence. Really like it, and I can get the lateral adjuster dialed in pretty quick. The results are phenomenal. Makes for seamless glue ups.

Just being curious, do you work with stock that is rough on all four sides?

Do you do any clean up to the surfaces before using the jointer fence?

Does having a rough side as a guide make much difference?

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

The boards I have prepared so far have been small, but now I am stepping up to 8' boards. I want use a power jointer because I do not see the advantage, it just isn't the way I roll...lately.

An 8' bench is nice if there is room for it. Staying to my plan for an 8' bench will cause a major rearrangement of my shop. Basically, it is a mess now and having a bigger bench will make me do some clean up.

Most people of my acquaintance with power jointers were always looking for someone to sharpen their blades. To me, that is a big advantage for a hand plane. A dull blade only sets me back a few minutes at most.

There are ways around having an 8' bench to plane an 8' board. I am having some success with my 5' bench for the edges. My plan is to use a long beam for a planing support when it comes to face planing for the lamination glue ups.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

I am having space issues too Jim, also complicated by a need for some cabinets and improved organization.

I have lots of "tables": Festool MFT table, a table saw, floor drill press, a small band saw, a compact work bench and now I am thinking about where to put a larger band saw and lager work bench. The problem is all the different working heights. I can solve some of this with a couple nice work supports I have but you can't plane on a work support. A large bench will give me the planing support but the table saw starts getting in the way. I would like to get rid of the table saw and use my Festool table & saw and a larger band saw to do big cutting jobs.

I don't know how I would work a powered a planner or jointer into my shop and I don't want them anyway. I am good with the lumber yard surfacing my lumber and giving me one good edge. The Festool equipment is great for making straight 90 degree edges on rips too.

[John Coloccia]

I raised my table saw a bit so my main bench serves as an out feed to the table saw. I have another shop tour coming up soon, hopefully the last one for a good long time as I'm tired of rearranging things. Anyhow, this works particularly well.

[Bill Rhodus]

Mike, I noticed in your original post that you referenced the possibility of breaking down logs; this is a completely different animal from resawing timber with a reduced moisture content. Most or all of the advice I have seen referencing your post appears to be targeted to resawing dry material. If you are considering sawing green logs you will probably want to use powered equipment to size the material after it is dry because it will move while drying. I enjoy working with hand tools and it is what I really want to do but it can become a chore to size a lot of rough sawn material. During the last several years I have been getting large logs from the town forrester (44" pecan, 42" white oak?!!) and have gotten some beautiful wood but it is an incredible amount of work that has it's own special needs.