Building backsaws from parts

[Randy Mack]

I want to build a couple backsaws, mainly a x-cut carcass and rip tenon/sash saw. I have read many blogs talking about building saws from either kits or parts from Wenzloff and Sons but it seems I am too late. Looking at the Wenzloff and Sons web site they do not seem to be in the parts business any longer. The backs and bolts have been out of stock for a while now. Does anyone know of an alternative for the backs? I really don't want to mill, fold, or laminate brass, as this would be too much of an investment to make it worth the trouble. Currently I am leaning toward a Gramercy carcass kit. I may pass on trying to find parts to build a tenon/sash saw and just buy a ready to use saw with a 14" .025 plate unless someone has a better suggestion for parts. I know some will say to just buy old saws, but I am tired of getting outbid on online auctions for (pictures of saws). Plus I would imagine most of the older tenon saws would have thicker plates.

[Mike Holbrook]

Randy,
I would suggest you call Wenzloff and talk to Mike. Mike is more of a phone guy than an email guy. Mike has had some health issues and issues with his customer data base. Mike is easier to get via phone and what he will do is sometimes not what you see on his site. I think he is trying to cut back the number of different things he does so he can get caught up after being sick. If you call and talk to him I think he will work with you to get what you want.

There are also Gramercy kits for the types of saws you mention. I have both the Gramercy dovetail and sash saws and can not say enough good things about them. Kits or built saws, the Gramercy backsaws are top notch in my and many other peoples estimations.

If you read through a bunch of the other hand saw threads I think you will find that quite a few people here like panel saws a great deal. Some even use them for the fine work backsaws are designed for. It is easier to find panel saws at auction than backsaws.

[James Owen]

You may find a decent backsaw in the local used-tool store, if there is one in your area.

Even in a vintage-tool/used-tool wasteland like Albuquerque, we have a really good used tool store, where I've been able to find various types/sizes of back saws, full size/panel rip and cross-cut saws, egg beater drills, bit braces, dividers, chisels, planes, and other woodworking tools -- in quality brands and in decent condition -- for very reasonable prices.

If there is such a store where you live, you should be able to get similar deals. Besides, a used tool store is much more fun, more convenient, often less expensive than the infamous auction site (especially after you factor in postage, insurance, etc), and you get to handle the tools before you buy them..... Plus, once you get to know the proprietor, he'll often look for specific tools for you, if you ask him to.

[Randy Mack]

Thanks for the responses. I decided to first build a Gramercy carcase saw kit. Then I can decide if building is really the way to go for the tenon/sash saw. I took a saw sharpening class at The Woodwright's school and noticed that Ed Lebetkin's old tool store upstairs had many saws, although good backsaws are in short supply at least for what I want to pay. (You ever wonder where all the old tools go. They're in Ed's store..:)). The Gramercy kits come with sharpened plates, so I won't have to deal with sharpening immediately; where as an old saw would probably need to be sharpened.

[Jim Koepke]

so I won't have to deal with sharpening immediately; where as an old saw would probably need to be sharpened.

Randy,

Your information doesn't list your location. If you are around my area I can let you in on some of the places I always look. Most of them have a regular turn over and some are hit and miss. Your only cost will be to share with me any of your source finds.

Other than that, keep looking at the Goodwill, Restore and any other likely suspects.

Even finding a cheap junk saw to use for practice sharpening is worth the time. I have sharpened a bunch of saws, put new teeth on an old saw plate and still have loads to learn. But I am getting better than when I started. Every time one of my saws, sharpened by my hand, is in my hand cutting wood is a great feeling.

jtk

[Dominic Greco]

I think finding saws and using the old hardware is a GREAT idea! I mean, you can sometimes get them for next to nothing.

I found a couple of old beat up saws with trashed handles and rusted saw plates. They were in such bad shape that I decided to scrap them. Then I cleaned up the spine and hardware. I got some spring steel, punched some teeth into it and re-seated in in the spines. After that is was just a matter of making a couple new handles.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z287/DominicGreco/finishedhandles1.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z287/DominicGreco/finished_saws4.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z287/DominicGreco/finished_saws1.jpg

[Mike Allen1010]

Beautiful job Dominic! I love your idea of re-purposing old backsaw components combined with new saw plates. Looks like you ended up with two perfectly functioning saws for a minimal investment of $.

How did you punch the teeth in the new saw plates - did you get one of those old Foley machines? I'm sure there are plenty of people who would like to be able to buy new saw plates with teeth already punched in, versus having to file them from scratch - can we p.m. you about that?

Mike

[Randy Mack]

Those are beautiful saws. For the handles does it matter if the wood is quarter sawn or not? Both of your saws have closed handles, so probably not an issue. But I was wondering if it made a difference. I messed with making an open handle from rift sawn cherry. The odd part of using rift sawn is that the grain appears to curve in different directlions when viewed on the handle's curved edges. I am not sure if cherry is really a wise choice for an open handle because of it's strength. But now I know I can probably make handles without too much trouble. Maybe next time in maple.

You said, find saws for next to nothing. I must live in the wrong part of the country. I must be competing with others doing the same, because I rarely find old saws in Charlotte, NC area. Occasionally I pick up D8s and D23s, but never see backsaws. I have better chances finding old stanley planes.

[Dominic Greco]

Beautiful job Dominic! I love your idea of re-purposing old backsaw components combined with new saw plates. Looks like you ended up with two perfectly functioning saws for a minimal investment of $.

How did you punch the teeth in the new saw plates - did you get one of those old Foley machines? I'm sure there are plenty of people who would like to be able to buy new saw plates with teeth already punched in, versus having to file them from scratch - can we p.m. you about that?

Mike

Thanks for the compliments. The apple handled saw went to a guy in trade for another tool. The elm burl handle is MINE. :D

Sure, if anybody wants to PM me about saw plates that can do that!

I have a couple Foley retoothers and a full compliment of ratchet bars. So I can punch teeth from 4 ppi all the way to 16ppi. I also have access to a boat load of spring steel in thicknesses ranging from 0.015", 0.020", 0.025" , and 0.032" (as well as a very limited quantity of 0.042" thk)

[Dominic Greco]

Those are beautiful saws. For the handles does it matter if the wood is quarter sawn or not? Both of your saws have closed handles, so probably not an issue. But I was wondering if it made a difference. I messed with making an open handle from rift sawn cherry. The odd part of using rift sawn is that the grain appears to curve in different directlions when viewed on the handle's curved edges. I am not sure if cherry is really a wise choice for an open handle because of it's strength. But now I know I can probably make handles without too much trouble. Maybe next time in maple.

You said, find saws for next to nothing. I must live in the wrong part of the country. I must be competing with others doing the same, because I rarely find old saws in Charlotte, NC area. Occasionally I pick up D8s and D23s, but never see backsaws. I have better chances finding old stanley planes.

Thanks for the compliments!

I've made several dozen saw handles (open and closed) and as long as I am careful about the grain orientation (in regards to having it go almost parallel to the hang angle) I haven't had a problem using flat sawn stock. Of course, if I can use quarter sawn, I will.

[David Weaver]

I want to build a couple backsaws, mainly a x-cut carcass and rip tenon/sash saw. I have read many blogs talking about building saws from either kits or parts from Wenzloff and Sons but it seems I am too late. Looking at the Wenzloff and Sons web site they do not seem to be in the parts business any longer. The backs and bolts have been out of stock for a while now. Does anyone know of an alternative for the backs? I really don't want to mill, fold, or laminate brass, as this would be too much of an investment to make it worth the trouble. Currently I am leaning toward a Gramercy carcass kit. I may pass on trying to find parts to build a tenon/sash saw and just buy a ready to use saw with a 14" .025 plate unless someone has a better suggestion for parts. I know some will say to just buy old saws, but I am tired of getting outbid on online auctions for (pictures of saws). Plus I would imagine most of the older tenon saws would have thicker plates.


I don't know what is or isn't in stock on mike's site, but I got parts from him not that long ago. I did have to wait until some were in stock, but I used his site's reminder function and ordered when the stuff showed up in stock.

Can't give you much suggestion on old saws. The two places I've successfully gotten mine are ebay (with esnipe, and not buying disston - might as well bid on something everyone else isn't bidding on), and the fine tool journal newsletter sales. It's senseless to bid real time on ebay or go without a snipe program any longer, you're just wasting your time if you look at auctions individually, because you can't bid on more than one item at a time (if you use something like esnipe, you can "bid" by submitting your bid to esnipe on a wad of auctions until you win, and remove your pending bids as soon as you win, so you don't have to log in 50 times to bid on 10 different saws, you can basically log in twice, once to enter bids, and once to remove pending bids once you win an auction. obviously if you actually enter a bid on ebay, you can't take it back within the rules).