To strop or not to strop? That is the ...

[Rich Seifert]

Just asking. I've heard that stropping is bad for handplanes, but I just saw the "which side up" question and saw a good number of you responded, so I'm assuming that stropping is popular(?). Rob Cosman suggested not stropping in a recent class I took--but I don't remember why. He taught sharpening with a Shapton 1000 and 16000. He admitted that he used to insist on the Shapton 30000, but he's not suggesting doing so any more... So, how much more does stropping really do?

Even more so, I'm new at all of this neanderthal stuff and haven't used any of it yet. The WS is still in the box, as are the stones and handplanes. I just bought Sigma Power Select II's in 1000 and 10000. I also have a WorkSharp 3000 with 3M's Cubitron paper 80 thru 400, and Carborundum Premier Red in 600, 800, 1000, 1200 and 1500-grit PSA for the WS3000. I have no idea how running the A2 plane blades through this finishing schedule will compare to the Sigma Select II's 10000 stone. Just trying to get smart before I get started ... looking forward to hearing from you experienced folks. Thanks! Rich

[Tri Hoang]

Stropping is inexpensive, effective, and efficient. You can attain & keep really sharp edge for a long time with stropping before having to return to stones. I've used an expensive 10K Chosera stone for sometime & could not tell the difference in sharpness between using it and a Shapton 5K + strop. There are a wide varieties of stropping compound and vast differences among them. A simple leather strop with pure chromium oxide easily match sharpness produced by any of the more expensive/exotic stones as far as woodworking tools are concern.

[Bob Strawn]

Seems rather crazy all the arguments and advice. Rob Cosman is a good educator, but he is also a businessman and he sells stones.

I think you have a great range of sharpening resources to experiment with there.

I sharpen often, and I sharpen as I work. So the strop gives me a killer edge and maintains a killer edge. If you power sharpen with a good system, you can probably do every bit as well without using a strop.

With a good set of stones, you may not find a lot of advantage stropping.

With stones and power systems, it is common to work with a tool until it no longer functions at an acceptable level. Then you go to your sharpening station and restore the edge. I have done this, and I often use these methods. I prefer to strop.

With a strop, I have my blade polishing method right beside me. I maintain the edge at peak. I don't wait as long before I tap the blade out of my plane and polish the edges. When I do this, I get optimum behavior all the time and I end up removing less steel to maintain the edge.

Whenever you hear anyone discount a method, discount their discount. I have witnessed and old timer sharpen a blade to clean one pass arm shaving sharpness using spit on a stone barely finer than 120 grit. He stropped the blade on the palm of his hand.

Bob

[lowell holmes]

I keep my diamond stones on the bench while working. My strop is a piece of mdf with the green compound from Lee Valley.

If I touch the edge of the plane iron or chisel, I will get a paper cut. That's the way Paul Sellers taught me to do it.

There are many different ways to maintain the edges on tools. I say that we should settle no the one we like and then tune out the noise. :)

[Tony Zaffuto]

For more than the past several years I use a vintage washita, black arkansas and then strop (Tools for Working Wood, about $20) charged with green compound. I also hone frequently, and I reach hair popping in a matter of minutes. For restoring an edge, I put a concave bevel on the tool. I also sharpen without a jig.

I think the most important thing to remember about sharpening, is to pick one method and stick with it long enough to really learn it so it becomes second nature.

[John Coloccia]

Every edge I have gets hit with the strop frequently, and is better for it. I'm sure there's some theoretical reason that someone can come up with why stropping is bad.

[Rich Seifert]

I really appreciate the wisdom you're all sharing. I have so many questions about stropping. How does one effectively strop? Do you recommend any specific stropping products (other than Lee Valley's green compound or pure chromium oxide)? Is it worth trying Worksharp's leather stropping wheel for power stropping? Or Stumpy Nubs' inexpensive mdf disks for power stropping http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU9WecxUFfw. Or is it better to do it by hand? I'm not sure if I wasted my money with all of the Carborundum Premier Red sandpaper in 600 to 1500-grit PSA for the WS3000 (bought before I saw Stumpy's method); I have no clue whether it will work well. Finally, can anyone tell me what grit LV's green compound or chromium oxide compared is to 1500-grit aluminum oxide sandpaper? Thanks so much for all of your time with my silly questions!

[lowell holmes]

My strops have progressed from leather, rawhide glued to a board charged with gray compound, and now mdf charged with LV green compound.

I don't anticipate changing again.

[John Coloccia]

I use the WS leather wheel as part of my sharpening schedule, but not for normal stropping. For that, I go to my Butz strop, or any one of a number of strops I've tossed together in the shop (some scrap wood and some leather from the scrap pile at Tandy Leather will build a LOT of strops). Some of them are dry. Some have compound. I suppose it depends on my mood.

I think you'll find, though, that if you strop very frequently, you will sharpen far less AND you will always have a sharp edge. When I'm using my chisels, or carving something, I must strop every minute or so it seems. I rarely have to actually sharpen anything.

[David Weaver]

I have been pushing what rob has settled back to for a long time, a 1k stone and (in my case) a 15k shapton. I still go back to the shaptons because of how hard they are, and you can get away with things on them that you can't get away with on other stones, which becomes important when you start sharpening things like carving tools or small blades and you can't just put them in a jig and drag them.

Anyway, even bare leather stropping will improve the sharpness and smoothness of the edge off of a 15k shapton, but you will have to hang a hair on the edge to tell the difference (you won't see it in wood). Same goes for a 30k edge (still talking about bare leather). I have yet to find a stone that isn't improved slightly by cleaning the edge with very smooth plain horse leather.

Palm stropping is how I like to do it off the shaptons in the shop, a couple of swipes, but it's habit.

If I were stopping with an arkansas stone or an 8k stone, for smooth planing and paring chisels, I would absolutely strop.

An important thing to remember with rob cosman is that he's selling himself (the longer you're in woodworking, the more you'll notice it), and he will tell you a lot of things are fact in a strong opinionated way.

I probably will, too, but nobody is paying me anything.

I saw a recent video where rob bluntly declares that a second iron in a double iron set does nothing other than hold and stabilize the iron. I don't know how anyone with that much experience would believe that the second iron doesn't improve the function of a double iron plane in terms of surface quality.

[Ted Pitera]

Go ahead and strop. Take a few seconds and you can strop on the leg of your dungarees, the side of your boot or on a piece of leather charged or uncharged. If you're in the shop and you have a felt or rag wheel charged with rouge use that before you strop. All of our great stones etc give us the ability to take an edge to a point so fine it'll be inevitable you get a crazy wire edge one day and can't figure out why your chisel that's razor sharp won't take a slice.

Do a vigorous strop on some handy surface and move along.

Excelsior,
Ted

[paul cottingham]

I strop with a piece of horsebutt and green rouge freehand, and with green rouge on a piece of cardboard on my veritas power sharpener. Both polish nicely, and give a fantastic edge. I'm probably over thinking and overworking things, but I love the edge it gives me, which makes using hand tools a pleasure for my poor beat up hands.

[James Owen]

For more than the past several years I use a vintage washita, black arkansas and then strop (Tools for Working Wood, about $20) charged with green compound. I also hone frequently, and I reach hair popping in a matter of minutes. For restoring an edge, I put a concave bevel on the tool. I also sharpen without a jig.

I think the most important thing to remember about sharpening, is to pick one method and stick with it long enough to really learn it so it becomes second nature.

+1 on this: pick a method and then practice it enough to get good at it.

We are extremely fortunate these days to have so many quality and effective sharpening materials and methods available to us, that it's often confusing to try to decipher which one(s) are "best" to use..... The answer is really simple: just pick one. Any of them will, if you do your part, give an edge that will shave hair off your arm, slice end-grain pine, etc. -- certainly sharp enough to do woodworking with. No need to over-think or over-complicate things..... And really no need to spend a boat-load of money, either (unless you just want to.....): a high-quality, effective, new, sharpening set-up can be had for $100 or less.


I really appreciate the wisdom you're all sharing. I have so many questions about stropping. How does one effectively strop? Do you recommend any specific stropping products (other than Lee Valley's green compound or pure chromium oxide)? Is it worth trying Worksharp's leather stropping wheel for power stropping? Or Stumpy Nubs' inexpensive mdf disks for power stropping http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU9WecxUFfw. Or is it better to do it by hand? I'm not sure if I wasted my money with all of the Carborundum Premier Red sandpaper in 600 to 1500-grit PSA for the WS3000 (bought before I saw Stumpy's method); I have no clue whether it will work well. Finally, can anyone tell me what grit LV's green compound or chromium oxide compared is to 1500-grit aluminum oxide sandpaper? Thanks so much for all of your time with my silly questions!

Like most other things woodworking, the power tool method seems better suited for the "heavy lifting" end of things, while the hand tool method generally seems to give more precise control. But by all means, try the WS power stropping and see how you like the results; if it works the way you want it to, there is no reason not to use it, especially since you already have the equipment anyway.

When I strop, I use a piece of smooth leather -- sometimes with and sometimes without compound, but that's merely my approach... There are other just-as-effective ways to do it. Except for carving tools, most of the time I don't strop.

**********

The particle size for 1500 grit CAMI (US) sand paper is about 8.5 micron; P-1500 grit FEPA (European) sand paper is about 12.5 micron (there is another FEPA grading system "F" that uses different criteria than the "P" system) . Chromium oxide (green) honing compound is typically in the 0.3 to 1.0 micron range, with 0.5 micron being the most common size.

[Stone/sand paper numbers are from a sizing chart published by Norton; other manufacturers use slightly different particle sizes for their stones of a given grit. Honing compound numbers are from: http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/jig faq 06.html]

You should also be aware that the particle size in any abrasive (including honing compounds) is an average of some sort, with a certain percentage of larger and smaller particles allowed (how high a percentage and what the upper and lower particle size limits are depends on the particular grading system).

[Jim Koepke]

Just goes to show their are many ways to arrive at the edge.

Find what works best for your needs.

It wasn't until I was able to get a good edge with water stones that I was able to do the same with an oil stone.

Another person's method might not appeal to you, but you may be able to learn something in the process.

jtk

[Van Huskey]

Every edge I have gets hit with the strop frequently, and is better for it. I'm sure there's some theoretical reason that someone can come up with why stropping is bad.

Working are sharp edge against a surface that is subject to significant compression (relative to say a stone) tends to round the edge. Thats the theory I always hear.

[Rich Seifert]

Excellent advice. Again, thanks for sharing your wisdom! I just ordered the Lee Valley Strop & Compound Set, 05D1101, and I'll also try mounting cardboard or mdf on the WorkSharp platter to experiment and determine which method works best for me, pick one, and stay with it. Thanks again! - Rich

[Metod Alif]

This
Paul Sellers - How to sharpen a handplane - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvTcReENk9g&feature=channel) or
Plane and Chisel Sharpening - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFRJIAOGSJI&context=C317f1acADOEgsToPDskJxko6M4gwYc6gkcAbqhMRo ).
might be all that you need to know about stropping. It is also free (maybe not a drawback).
Best wishes,
Metod

[Bill White]

Want a smart a$$ed answer? Send me $1,000. I'll make you a fine leather faced paddle (2 sided) with some green rouge on one side, alum. oxide on the other, 2 water stones, and a greeting card.
Seems that sharpening today has become an excercise in how much one can afford.
Told ya it was a wise..............
Bill

[Tri Hoang]

I don't think the Lee Valley green compound will do much good after your 10K stone because it is (was?) considerably coarser than your 10K stone. I used to struggle to understand why stropping with LV green compound leave more scratches on the tools than the finish off my 12K Sharpton Pro stone. After some research, I believe LV green compound has some coarse aluminum oxide (to help speed up the cutting action).

I had good experience with TFWW green bar...very fine and does not seem to mess up the mirror finish off my 12K stone.


Excellent advice. Again, thanks for sharing your wisdom! I just ordered the Lee Valley Strop & Compound Set, 05D1101, and I'll also try mounting cardboard or mdf on the WorkSharp platter to experiment and determine which method works best for me, pick one, and stay with it. Thanks again! - Rich

[Trevor Walsh]

I also use the TFWW green compound. The strop touches every blade I have multiple times before re-honing. I even have loose leather with compound on it for hard to strop items and dowels with compound for stropping travishers etc. Try it, I think you'll find that you have sharper tools with longer edge life. A strop is also easier than dealing with the water that would accompany another waterstone, especially when paring a DT carcass you'll be hitting the strop 4 times a side. I do anyways.

[Jim Koepke]

I use a green stick that was purchased at a lapidary shop. They use it to put a high gloss on gems and other stones.

It seems to polish out any "haze" that may be left by my 8000 water stone and shines up the finish left by my translucent Arkansas stones.

jtk

[Jorge Rico]

Rich,
If I am using waterstones on plane blades or chisels and finish them with an 8000 grit waterstone, no stropping is needed. However, I should add that when using an 8000 grit stone the stone is prepped by rubbing it with a Nagura stone (a natural stone similar to chalk) prior to the final polish. If I am lazy and don't go the waterstone route, then Arkansas stone sharpening is followed by stropping on a thick old leather belt charged with jewelers rouge that is sitting flat on the workbench. Both methods will get any blade to an arm hair shaving level. To answer your last question, when stropping I take two swipes, one where the back of the blade is dead flat on the leather and the other where the bevel is held flat against the leather. In both of those passes the sharp end is pointing away and the blade is pulled towards me.

Hope this helps.

[Bobby O'Neal]

It is very cheap to make a strop, so just try it and see, I say. I am another in the camp that says stropping very often is a great way to maintain the edge. I am a scary sharp user (for now) and go from a 2000 paper to the strop and its night and day difference. Luckily, I don't have to consistently visit anything other than the strop. Its a great way to maintain and edge. Last sandpaper polish seems sharp but the strop will really go on and make 'em tell the truth.

[Rich Seifert]

Okay - thanks to your posts, I just discovered TFWW. Thanks gentlemen! I think I have everything I need to give it a try...

[Rich Seifert]

I just thought I'd return to share what I've done. I returned the Power Select II stones and worked with Stu (I wish I knew about him and toolsfromjapan.com before I bought anything) ... I am sure I wouldn't have bought 100 sheets of 6" disc PSA paper in every grit. Perhaps just 80-320 in 3M Cubitron? Anyway, Stu hooked me up with the Sigma Power 1000-6000-13000 set and I upgraded the Power 1000 stone to the Power Select II 1200 stone at his recommendation. I put my first blade (A2) through the finishing schedule: PSII 1200, PS 6000, and PS 13000 ... then stropped a few laps on a piece of horse butt and holy crap! I cannot describe the edge I attained ... an absolute best-ever for me! Now I understand the phrase, "hairs literally jumped of my arm!" The stones stayed pretty flat ... and flattened with the included Atoma 400 diamond stone very quickly as well. I chose to add a separate iWood rubber base and I couldn't be happier! Thank you for everything and special thanks to Stu for all of his time/attention explaining the differences between the Power Select II and Power stones! I will be back! And I will continue to strop (the main reason for this thread in the first place). ;-)

[Curt Putnam]

Power stropping (as in your WS with leather wheel) can do some pretty powerful sharpening (not as fast as a belt sander or circular wheel). If you are so inclined, it has a place. I can take a double iron from a Bailey style plane and stick on my 30° angle guide (with groove down the center for the screw), strop the heck out of it on the WS in 20 seconds and drop it back in the plane and be back working a lot faster than I can have a keen edge any other method with that style plane.

Short answer: Strop

[Jerome Hanby]

Power stropping (as in your WS with leather wheel) can do some pretty powerful sharpening (not as fast as a belt sander or circular wheel). If you are so inclined, it has a place. I can take a double iron from a Bailey style plane and stick on my 30° angle guide (with groove down the center for the screw), strop the heck out of it on the WS in 20 seconds and drop it back in the plane and be back working a lot faster than I can have a keen edge any other method with that style plane.

Short answer: Strop

I used the leather wheel to finish off a block plane blade i was using to play with the WS. It really finished it off well.

[jerry nazard]

Rich,

You have discovered two wonderful go-to people: Stu, and Joel at TFWW.

I always have a stropping block on the bench charged with green compound. I also have a 3 x 8 block of MDF covered with suede and charged with paraffin. Every so often I will strop the sole of my plane BACKWARDS on the waxed block. This really makes your plane glide across the wood. Try it... you'll like it!!

Best!

-Jerry