New "inmproved" reci tube series - W series

[Rodne Gold]

From another forum

W2-90W Peak Power 100W
W4-120W Peak Power 135W
W6-150W Peak Power 170W
W8-170W Peak Power 195W

Tube Life: 10000hours, warrenty time:10
months

Reci have nothing on their site and I have no idea of what the improvements are - I would imagine you also need the corresponding PS , I was about to order an extra spare tube or so , think I will try one of the new ones.

[jason harris]

My machine was delayed a week due to the switch over from old to new so in a couple weeks I should have two PS's and tubes. I don't know the difference either?

[Rodne Gold]

According to Shenui , you can use your old power supplys with the new tubes , they recon the 150+ watt tubes are still a little flaky in terms of output stability
Im ordering the W2 90w tubes

[john banks]

Will be interesting to see how they go. I can do good quality 5 point Arial with my V4 at 200mm/s bidirectional, but the best engraving is at low power levels (ie 10-15%), which tallies with comments in the information that is with the tubes to the effect that they do their best high speed rastering at 4mA. But at high power levels the response time of the V4 100W is not so good, but is fabulous for cutting.

I would also be interested to know if the difference between the power supplies for different powers is just the potentiometer setting on the side? There are other pots inside on the board.

[Tom Schulze]

So now that the lowest RECI tube is 90W instead of 80W am I still better off going with the W2 tube or finding a different brand tube to stay at 80W? I ask this because I want to stay in the range where I can both cut and engrave and have enough control to engrave delicate items such as paper.

[john banks]

My old style 100W engraves paper. I bet the new 90W will engrave at least as well as the old 80W anyway.

[Robert Silvers]

Are there any 900x600mm lasers which can fit the W4 tube? Or are they all W2s?

[Dave Sheldrake]

Tube Sizes


http://en.bjefr.com/


ZN Series


ZN-1250:
Length: 1250mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 80 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 95 Watts
Working Current: 26 Ma


ZN-1450:
Length: 1450mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 100 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 120 Watts
Working Current: 28 Ma


ZN-1650:
Length: 1650mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 130 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 150 Watts
Working Current: 30 Ma


ZN-1850:
Length: 1850mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 150 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 180 Watts
Working Current: 30 Ma


F Series:


F2:
Length: 1250mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 80 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 95 Watts
Working Current: 28 Ma


F4:
Length: 1450mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 100 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 120 Watts
Working Current: 30 Ma


F6:
Length: 1650mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 130 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 150 Watts
Working Current: 30 Ma


F8:
Length: 1850mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 150 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 170 Watts
Working Current: 30 Ma


F10:
Length: 2050mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 180 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 195 Watts
Working Current: 30 Ma

The new ZX series from EFR are amazing bits of kit. The ZX1850 peaks at 188 Watts (Thermopiled yesterday)


RECI:


http://www.recilaser.com/en/products.htm


W Series:


W2:
Length: 1120mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 80 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 85 Watts
Working Current: 27 Ma


W4:
Length: 1400mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 100 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 120 Watts
Working Current: 28 Ma


W6:
Length: 1650mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 130 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 150 Watts
Working Current: 30 Ma


W8:
Length: 1850mm +/- 20mm
Diameter: 80mm +/- 2mm
Rated Power Output: 150 Watts
Maximum Power Output: 180 Watts
Working Current: <30 Ma

[Mike Null]

Dave

The first link is not working. Have you listed it correctly?

[Robert Silvers]

I am not sure how it fits as the tube is as long as the chassis is listed as, but I ordered a TR-9060 900x600mm from Triumph, and they assured me it would come with a new RECI Z4 tube, 100 watt power supply, CW-5000 chiller, etc.

We will see what shows up.

They originally gave me the option of an "80 watt" or "100 watt." I told them that RECI no longer makes an 80 watt. They came back and said that they are used to calling it an 80 watt, but it is indeed a 90 watt now. I asked if their "100 watt" option was a W2 or a W4, and they said rest assured, it was a W4. I then insisted on a new Z4, and they said no problem.

http://www.recilaser.com/en/newsInfo/fc9181e83ff4f239013ff53144ef04a5.htm

[Dave Sheldrake]

Dave

The first link is not working. Have you listed it correctly?

Hi Mike,

Their site is aweful for responding, it goes up and down almost on a daily basis ;)

best wishes

Dave

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Rob,

RECI like most far eastern tube makers used to quote peak powers (I guess as a selling point) but got slated quite badly for it when end users power levels dropped back. The W6 was rated as a 150 watt but only pumps 150 if you run it above the warranted amperage.Now the W6 is rated for continuous use at 130 watts.

The W4 is a 100 watt tube but has a peak power of 120 watts.

The catch out is from RECI's site


The working current: test current is 30mA. Maximum working current is 30mA. The running current
must be kept below 28mA. The life span can reach 10,000 hours if the current is kept below 26mA.

My general understanding is the tubes pump the max output at max test current but give the lower nominal figure if you stay below the 28mA and give the longest life below 26mA, I have known RECI to bounce warranty claims if the tubes are run at max current.

Can't speak for the Z series as I've never used one but they seem to be going for the coated electrodes the same way EFR are. My last 80 watt F2 EFR lasted for 5,500 hours and thermopiled at 78 watts when I swapped it out, my current ZX1850 EFR is rated at 150 watts but is thermopiling at 188 at 80% current at the moment.

hope that makes some kind of sense :)

best wishes

Dave

[Robert Silvers]

I have known RECI to bounce warranty claims if the tubes are run at max current.

Their website says that they deny warranty claims if the exterior surface of the negative electrode container is of certain colors:

http://www.recilaser.com/en/newsInfo/fc9181e93db565be013db94bf98b123b.htm

Is the current something that I should check myself when I get it and easy to adjust? Or should I tell the company to set it to some value before shipment?

[Dave Sheldrake]

Their website says that they deny warranty claims if the exterior surface of the negative electrode container is of certain colors:

http://www.recilaser.com/en/newsInfo/fc9181e93db565be013db94bf98b123b.htm

Is the current something that I should check myself when I get it and easy to adjust? Or should I tell the company to set it to some value before shipment?

It's not that easy to adjust Rob, the easier way is to run the machine at <80% power on the control panel (you can set the max power on the DSP rather than adjusting the tiny screw on the PSU)

Any settings you make in LaserCUT (or whatever Triumph call their software) will be a percentage then of what is set on the DSP pad.

There's something I want to check with a Chinese friend...back in a minute......

best wishes

Dave

[Robert Silvers]

Ok - that makes sense to cap it in firmware, but is it easy to use a multimeter to find out which value to cap it at?

[Dave Sheldrake]

Ok - that makes sense to cap it in firmware, but is it easy to use a multimeter to find out which value to cap it at?


Yes but electrics are well outside of my paygrade, I've used a meter to check tube amps at the negative but I'm nowhere near qualified enough to suggest it to somebody else or any method of doing so.

A couple of belts from a 150 watt supply kinda keeps me away from playing with them :) laser beams, physics...fine but not electrics for me :)

best wishes

Dave

[Robert Silvers]

Is there some low cost thermopile for a 80-150 watt tube?

[Rich Harman]

...the easier way is to run the machine at <80% power on the control panel (you can set the max power on the DSP rather than adjusting the tiny screw on the PSU)


I replaced my main board quite a long time ago for the newer model. With the old main board 90% power was about 25mA. With the new board 90% was about 18mA. No other changes had been made. In order to make a 90% setting in software fire the laser at 25mA I had to adjust the little screw on the power supply.

The other machine which came with the new style main board also was firing "weak". Adjusting the power supply allowed the machine to fire at greater power. Both machines are always kept at or below 25mA.

Without an ammeter it would be difficult to know if your machine's power supply is adjusted correctly. I wouldn't trust that a software setting is an accurate reflection of the true power going to the laser.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Mine is a Coherant LabMax-TO with a 300PM-F50 head that measures to 300 watts but they aren't cheap at nearly $4,800 new,
I believe China do some at around $1,000 that will measure up to 200 or so watts (but are +/- 5% so not very accurate) or second hand maybe an LD100 head with a 212 monitor from Coherant going about $1,000 (up to 100 watts) (and are very accurate if calibrated) A 30/150 Ophir head is going to run about $500 alone but well worth getting Ophir rather than generic Chinese.

best wishes

Dave

[Robert Silvers]

How about aiming the laser at a container of water? Weigh the container on a gram scale. Use a very accurate thermometer (bomb calorimeter).

http://www.novatech-usa.com/Products/Glass-ASTM-Thermometers/10050F?gclid=CNLymNfq1bgCFQ6f4Aod3DEANQ


Say for example if 380 grams water went from 75.6F to 100.5 F in 300 seconds...


24.222 C to 38.056 C


(38.056-24.222)*380*4.19/300

That would be 73.4 watts.

This thermometer is probably good enough since we only care about the change in temp and not absolute readings:

http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Digital-Instant-Read-Pocket-Thermometer/dp/B00004XSC3/ref=sr_1_4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1375139985&sr=1-4&keywords=taylor+digital+thermometer

I am not sure the ideal container - probably thin black ceramic, but since glass is opaque to this wavelength, an ordinary glass may be ok (though it may reflect too much?)

[matthew knott]

Cheap power meters are basically a large block of Metal with a thermometer stuck in them, Normally calibrated in time! Set the dial to zero, fire the laser for a set time (20 seconds was common) into the block, read of the power in Watts. Simple and Ok for a reading. Thermopile gives you nice real time readings, we have a Ophir that plugs into a laptop, used to use it for setting optics in the laser resonators, nice but expensive. I flew to munich a few weeks ago to the LASER World of PHOTONICS 2013 (http://world-of-photonics.net/en/laser/start) show, every one and everything to do with lasers there (including Reci). Ive seen the new Reci tubes, they were firing 2 into a brickfor some reason, the new PSU looked very sexy, with an LED display.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I wouldn't trust that a software setting is an accurate reflection of the true power going to the laser.

True Rich, I'm just very cautious about telling people to fiddle with the adjustments on the PSU without having an idea of their electrical skill levels. On a side note, I saw Weike are now reverting to the older 6515 cards rather than the 6525...that's kinda worrying...

best wishes

Dave

[Robert Silvers]

I see. There is one for $55 on eBay (it directly reads in watts up to 100). Seems sketchy. I would only trust it if I saw it work side by side with something higher end.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Ive seen the new Reci tubes, they were firing 2 into a brick

It scares me when I see the methods some of the Chinese companies use :) banks of tubes on a desk (without sign of an earth point) all firing against the wall to make sure they work :)

Shows are great fun, I recall one well known Western laser company expounding how fantastic they are and how their new machine was going to "revolutionise the industry" only to see his face drop when somebody shouted "Dude, sorry to interrupt but your machines on fire" (waves: Hi Gordon) :)

best wishes

Dave

[matthew knott]

I see. There is one for $55 on eBay (it directly reads in watts up to 100). Seems sketchy. I would only trust it if I saw it work side by side with something higher end.
Yeap, thats the kind of thing, they work fine if calibrated, way better than nothing and you can use them as a reference point, somewhere i have some of those little Synrad laserwizard things http://www.synrad.com/pw/, brand new that where surplus stock, wonder where i put them!

[Dan Hintz]

Yep, picked up a Power Wizard myself a few years back... less than half price, if memory serves.

[Chuck Stone]

Yep, picked up a Power Wizard myself a few years back... less than half price, if memory serves.

Care to rent it out for a few days?

[Dan Hintz]

Chuck, I think you can rent one from Timberbits for a reasonable price... it's worth it when you think your tube might be failing.

[Jonathan Brown]

You can also make a crude thermal power meter with a block of black anodized aluminum (or coated with something that will absorb the co2 wavelength), a thermistor, and a power resistor.


I did this before I got my Synrad Powerwizard 250 watt meter and it turned out to be quite accurate (within 10% IIRC) over a range of laser power. Takes awhile to calibrate the thermal profile of the block/thermistor with the power resistor though.

[Chuck Stone]

Chuck, I think you can rent one from Timberbits for a reasonable price... it's worth it when you think your tube might be failing.

David has them? I didn't know he was involved with lasers. I'll
have to give him a call next time he's sending an order..

[Robert Silvers]

Just take a block of metal, read the temp of it with an IR thermometer, and then hit it with the beam for 60 seconds. Write the new temp, old temp, and date on the block.

Re-do that every 100 hours of use.

If you suspect the tube is failing, you will be able to look back at your log and see. You can even graph the results in Excel and it will become very clear how the power changes over time.

[Chuck Stone]

Just take a block of metal, read the temp of it with an IR thermometer, and then hit it with the beam for 60 seconds. Write the new temp, old temp, and date on the block.

I can tell by the way I have had to lower my speed for the same material.
Went from 15% speed for cutting down to .5%
Didn't even need a thermometer! :p

[Dan Hintz]

Ah, not TimberBits (been spending a lot of time on IAP)... great, now the name escapes me. Very popular supplier of laserable materials, from wooden desk sets to marble, etc. The names escapes me, but I can imagine the front cover of their catalog.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Laserbits Dan?

[Dan Hintz]

Laserbits Dan?

Thanks, Dave, THAT'S what I was thinking of... I could picture the blocked red and blue lettering, but the name itself escaped me.

[Johan de Waal]

My gh1290 machine arrivde about a month ago supplied with the W2 RECI tube, but it packed up yesterday afternoon...so i am depressed at the moment. stopped lasering after it ran the whole day without issue, at mostly 65 % power cutting 3mm mdf. on investigation i found the laser tube completely filled up with water. so something cracked / broke inside the tube which caused this failure. in contact with Shenhui at the moment to understand how this could have happened.

Being a bit paranoid, i kept a eye on the cooling and it ran constantly around 19 degrees C so don't know what went wrong

[Dave Sheldrake]

My gh1290 machine arrivde about a month ago supplied with the W2 RECI tube, but it packed up yesterday afternoon...so i am depressed at the moment. stopped lasering after it ran the whole day without issue, at mostly 65 % power cutting 3mm mdf. on investigation i found the laser tube completely filled up with water. so something cracked / broke inside the tube which caused this failure. in contact with Shenhui at the moment to understand how this could have happened.

Being a bit paranoid, i kept a eye on the cooling and it ran constantly around 19 degrees C so don't know what went wrong

Thermal shock or damage during transit are both possible. I saw the end drop off of a new ZX1650 EFR tube last week when it was taken from it's box brand new.

best wishes

Dave

[Johan de Waal]

Received a replacement tube yesterday from RECI directly yesterday- super service from the Shenhui guys. However, this time around the tube is a Y2 tube and not W2 tube as the original. Production date on the tube is august 2013 which means it must have been manufactured in the last 2 weeks. Any ideas as to the difference between the Y- series compared to the W series? Can't seem to find anything on the website.

By the way - amazing how small the world is with companies like DHL - picked up Friday from RECI and delivered to my doorstep Tuesday morning - and I live in a one horse town...

[Dave Sheldrake]

Y series were the stop gap between the older W series and the newest Z series, Y's have a slightly higher peak power and higher nominal power but don't have the warranted stability of the Z series. Some of the earlier W8 tubes started to have problems from what I've been told.

best wishes

Dave

[Johan de Waal]

I actually made a mistake, on closer inspection I saw that the replacement tube is actually a Z2 tube . Suppose this is the latest technology then from RECI?

regards

[Dave Sheldrake]

I actually made a mistake, on closer inspection I saw that the replacement tube is actually a Z2 tube . Suppose this is the latest technology then from RECI?

regards

Yup, the best RECI make

cheers

Dave