Do I "need" a cabinet saw?

[Dave Anthony]

I've been into this hobby for several years and have completed a few projects: patio furniture, an aquarium stand, two entertainment centers, numerous bookcases, 2 cabinets, a decorative side table, a bathroom vanity, fireplace mantle. window sills, hardwood flooring, numerous small boxes, etc. On my current "to do" list are 4 mirrors and a cradle, and possibly cabinets for a small kitchen. Over the years my tool collection has grown: I currently have a Delta contractor saw w/a Jessum sliding table w/a Bench Dog router table extension in the wing. I've added a link belt, PALs and a Sharkguard splitter and built an enclosure to help w/dust collection. Jet 12" J/P & Jet 21" bandsaw, a small drill press and a 1.5 hp Delta dust collector are the other major power tools, along w/various routers, planes, chisels, clamps, etc. I've got a birthday coming up, and my wife keeps asking what I want. Money isn't an issue, and I keep thinking a cabinet saw would be nice to have. On the other hand, my current saw is set up nicely and for the most part does what I need. Dust collection is more accurately described as containment, and sometimes I have to be careful of the feed rate with 8/4 maple. I had some issues w/some very hard Bubinga, but other than that it's been a very good saw. I realize this is probably the wrong forum for a totally objective response, but what do you think? If your vote is yes, which saw?

[Rick Potter]

Nope, you don't need one. Your Delta contractors saw will do a good job for your projects. However, you can find good Unisaws for 7-900, all the extras you have put on your saw will fit the Unisaw, the dust collection will be better, and the footprint is actually smaller because you have the motor hanging out the back of your current saw.

So, my vote is yes. Get a 3HP Unisaw. Left tilt is usually considered the way to go, but with the slider some advise on the right tilt, which is much easier to find. Your choice. If you have room, also keep the contractor saw with a dado blade on it. If you use it as an outfeed table for the Uni it won't take up too much extra room. I assume you have 220 V.

Rick Potter

[Carl Beckett]

Hi Dave,

I went a similar path. I had a very nicely configured contractors saw (I had upgraded the belt, turned the arbor to run true, replaced the wings, etc etc). For different reasons I ended up selling that saw (an international move), and then a few years later replaced it with a cabinet saw. It was a nice upgrade, but I liked that contractor saw and it did everything I needed (like you say - bogged down some with thick dense stuff - but you have a nice bandsaw that can help with this).

I dont want the thread to digress, but if I were upgrading I might look at a SawStop. An upgrade might not do any more than your current setup, but it would feel 'nice' every time you use it and for me its still a heavily used tool. The Sawstop gives peace of mind (every little bit helps when it comes to safety, is my thinking - and yes, I have a thumb that clicks every time I move it, thanks to a table saw accident and corresponding surgery - but I still have that thumb and Im thankful for it). I think you would find a great deal of satisfaction every time you use the upgraded saw (nothing functionally superior, just a nice feeling to use a really nice piece of equipment).

If you were going to upgrade the dust collection you might see a major difference (expect to put a fair bit of time into this).

OR: If you are the type to migrate towards hand tools - I would get some really nice hand planes, dovetail saw, sharpening system, and jump on that learning curve. (this would be my first suggestion to you... but its a personal preference thing and depends on what you like to build)

The other anomaly I picked up off craiglist was a WoodRat (and then I put a digital readout on it, and an incra index on the cross slide). Ive been very surprised/pleased at how useful it has been for me.

Finally - one thing often overlooked is wood. A batch of really nice wood. Or classes. How about a week long class from a master.....? (have know some that have done rocking chairs, or kayaks as part of a class and had a great time and learned a lot).

[Ron Natalie]

I worked with a Delta Contractor saw for my first twenty years in woodworking. After some monkeys of a movers managed to really mess the thing up after a move (I was never able to get it back into alignment after that, I can't figure out WHAT they did to it), and at the gentle insistence of my wife, I replaced it with a SawStop PCS. It sure is nice having a bit more HP and a nicer fence (and as mentioned, it already came fitted for the DC. However, if the contractor saw is still working well (and especially if you've fixed it up with dust collection and a better fence), I might find better things to spend the $1500-3000 that a cabinet saw would cost on something else in the shop.

[Prashun Patel]

Dave-

My instinct is that you'll appreciate the improvement of a cabinet saw. Need one? no. But you'll really appreciate the improved dust collection and power.

The Sawstop is always worthy of consideration if $$ is no object.

That being said, around me there are a LOT of Grizzly cab's on CL almost every day for between $300 and $1000. They get very good reviews too.

I was able to do fine on a hybrid saw for a couple years. I don't think the quality of my work has improved switching to a cabinet saw, but I do appreciate all the upgrades; they're very nice to have.

[Von Bickley]

I also have a Delta contractor saw. Do I need a cabinet saw, NO. Do I want a cabinet saw, YES. If you want one and can afford it, go for it.
If you have room for 2 tablesaws, I would get the cabinet saw and keep the contractor saw. Set the contractor saw up for dados and leave the dado blades on it.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I also had a Delta contractor's saw and upgraded to a used Unisaw to which I added a Brett guard and a sliding table. Definitely happy I upgraded.

On the other hand, you could visit the Felder showroom in Sacramento and I'm sure you would find a few Birthday ideas there!

[Van Huskey]

I would first consider other machines or tools that you don't have that will help you build the things you want to build. Basically, look at your entire upgrade path and determine if the saw would make the most difference for your work.

Just as an aside I like gifts given to me to be nice handtools. They are lifetime purchases and can be past down to the next generation.

[Jack Vines]

Since money is not the problem, go for it. These days, good used cabinet saws are so affordable, I can't imagine not owning one. As previously mentioned, it's definitely an upgrade and your used contractors saw will probably bring back a good share of the cost.

jack vines

[Neil Brooks]

No.

You absolutely do not need a cabinet saw.

But I say ... get one, anyway.

You're welcome.

[Dick Brown]

I have two cabinet saws and love Them. Could I do what I do with your saw? Absolutely! To be real honest, most of us "COULD" get by with a benchtop. Should see the old 8 inch Craftsman my Dad used for 50 years as a pro. carpenter/woodworker. My nephew wanted me to keep my eyes open for a used cabinet saw for his son's graduation. (He works after school in a cabinet shop and loves it.) I told him,"As the boy is just 18 and this will be a lifetime saw, go for the safety of a S.S. as it will be a small price per year to pay divided by the years of expected use. I am 77 and slowing. For me to upgrade to a $3000 saw???? Only you can answer "Should I - Shouldn't I.

[G Douglas Fowler]

I had much the same setup but on a craftsman contractor TS for 32 years. The second time the motor died I relaced the 1hp with 2hp and it served me very well until the sag in the top casting finally became too much to cope with. I replaced it with a 3 hp Grizzly and since the TS is primarily used for rough dimension cutting, I'm not sure it really matters as long as you can plough the wood without any strain. Regarding dust collection, it is pretty much a non-issue provided you can pull the dust down and away from the throat plate. Few TS's really completely evacuate the all of the dust from the cavity. I do agree with the comment earlier that a cabinet saw has a smaller foot print.

[Cary Falk]

No you don't need one. I didn't need one either. I had a nice 2005 Delta contractor saw with a T2 fence. My only real complaint was that dust collection sucked and I didn't like it that the blade went out of alignment when I tilted it and returned it back to 90. I eventually got a cabinet saw and loved it but I dont think I totally appreciated it till my friend got a contractor saw like I use to have and I helped him set it up. The saw that I once had and enjoyed now felt like a toy. The handles were tiny and awkard to get to. It was a royal pain to align the blade to the miter slot. I had PALS on mine so I don't remember it being that bad. The trunion was a pain to get to. You barely touch the motor and the .001" blade alignment disappeared and didn't come back till I redid the alignment. Dust collection still sucked. He is using it to build a house so it is not all that critical. One day he will tilt the blade. I'n not sure when I will break the news to him that he will have to realign. The splitter/guard on his saw is a joke. The riving knife on my cabinet saw is the bomb. I will give up woodworking before I give up my cabinet saw.

[Bobby O'Neal]

If money is really not a problem, get whatever you like. And get me one, too. :D

[Don Jarvie]

Do you need one? Yes. Here's why, weight and size. I have a PM 66 and the table is large and the saw is heavy which means I can through a big sheet of plywood on it and not worry about the saw moving.

[Paul Johnstone]

Well, I am still using a Delta contractor's saw after about 20 years.

I would use your birthday money on something else. How about upgrading the Dust collector to a cyclone? That's probably the best investment I have ever made in woodworking, although it is not as exciting as a new TS.
Or what about a shaper?

[mreza Salav]

I upgraded from a delta contractor saw to a ICS sawstop. I also upgraded my 1.5HP Delta DC recently to a clearvue cyclone. Both upgrades are worth the money.
I got the sawstop mostly because of the saftey feature (I would NOT upgrade to a cabinet saw otherwise). If you are deciding between just a cabinet saw or your current
saw, I'd suggest look into upgrading your DC. The difference between a powerful cyclone and a single stage DC is more significant than a contractor saw and a cabinet saw.

[Timothy Wolf]

If money is really not a problem, get whatever you like. And get me one, too. :D

I second that motion!

[Steve Griffin]

You absolutely need to get a cabinet saw. But only if you have the following more important tools:

-Sliding table for sheetgoods
-mortising machine
-excellent shop dust collection
-shaper, feeder and set of cutters
-6" orbital sander with dedicated vacume.
-stop system for your miter saw
-HVLP spray system
-tormek sharpener
-premium dado set
-two 4x8' workbenches

I didn't just make that list up. Those are all tools I purchased before switching from a contractors saw to a cabinet saw. I felt each one was more important than a better T-saw.

If you cannot think of any better use for the extra money the cabinet saw costs, it's DEFINITELY time to get a cabinet saw.

[Mark Engel]

I had a Ryobi BT-3000 followed by a Delta Contractor saw, followed by a Grizzly G1023Z cabinet saw, now using a Grizzly G0623X sliding table saw.

Moving from a contractor saw to a cabinet saw, to me, was a major upgrade. Going to 3hp from 1-1/2 hp made a very big difference. The cabinet saw was much more stable with less vibration. Making adjustments to get everything 'tuned up' was also much less hassle.

Moving to the slidning table saw took some getting used to. It still (imo) has all of the same advantages vs a contractor saw, but it forces a different approach to making cuts. You already have a sliding table, so the learning curve may be lower. Making cuts on the sliding table saw just feels much safer. Not SawStop safe, but still ...

[Roger Feeley]

I did the same thing as mreza except I upgraded from a Powermatic 63 to a Sawstop ICS. Like he said, I would not have upgraded to a non sawstop saw. Not to start a flame war but it was my opinion at the time that SS would take over the table saw world and my PM63 would start to decline in value soon and that now was the time to sell. It was in good condition and I was able to get a good price for it. The guy that bought it was delighted. Everybody won.

[Bernie May]

I went from a nice Ridgid contractor's saw with cast iron router wing to Sawstop PCS. Ignoring the saftety features, the increased horsepower was worth it. Of course I already had a 2.5 HP Oneida cyclone. I think you should upgrade your dust collection with runs to all machines first. and do yourself a favor and get a Dylos DC1100 air monitor if you don't have one. No woodshop should be operated without one. You know nothing about dust in your shop until you have one of these monitors.

[Van Huskey]

Dylos DC1100 air monitor if you don't have one. No woodshop should be operated without one. You know nothing about dust in your shop until you have one of these monitors.

I do know one thing, whatever I think is enough is probably not enough and the more I read the probably not enough is even less enough. It just seems like there should be a cheaper option, like a HEPA lung transplant... :D

[Peter Quinn]

It sounds like you have been pretty productive with the equipment you have presently. Bravo. Need a cabinet saw? You need food, shelter, and companionship, everything else falls in the want category. But consider a man who has walked one hundred miles with no shoes. Does he need shoes? Clearly not, but it might make things more comfortable for his next hundred.

I have a cabinet saw, and i like it. Good smooth power, big table, decent dust collection. Whats not to like? If I had it to do over I'd get one of those small Hammer sliding table saws, and if money were no object I'd throw a shaper in there too. Yes, that would say happy birthday in a big way. And you know what foes good with a sliding table saw shaper combo? Well a 20" BS is just the thing...........

[Jeff Miller]

227199



jeff :d

[scott spencer]

Do golfers really "need" new golf clubs? No.... but that doesn't mean they don't enjoy them, or that you won't enjoy a cabinet saw tremendously. I was well aware that my GI contractor saw and Cman 22124 hybrid saw were plenty capable of making the cuts I needed, but when the opportunity came to pick up a full blown Shop Fox 3hp cabinet saw at a great price, I jumped at the chance. The cabinet saw simply has a much easier time with everything I cut, is less sensitive to alignment and blade choice, and should last a lifetime. The weight, power, precision, and smoothness of operation make it a pleasure to use.

[Doug Colombo]

I was using a 60 year old 8" TS for years - did like most people and changed the belt and fence system - worked very well for me for years. Moved up to a new cabinet saw (Unisaw) about a year ago. As many have said, did I need it - no. Am I glad I bought it - YES !!!! The HP upgrade, weight difference, dust collection, and table size are huge when you are doing a project. Have never looked back and thought I should not have bought it.

[Guy Belleman]

Yes. Nice work can be made on a contractors saw, but even better work can be consistently produced on a cabinet saw. Today's saws have riving knives, which after using one for a couple of years, has convinced me to not go without one again. As mentioned the mass, size, and often better fence of a cabinet saw makes the cabinet saw a great improvement. You may produce nice work now, but your capability and skill level should increase with a better saw.

[Rod Sheridan]

I guess I'll be the contraian, I wouldn't upgrade to a cabinet saw from a contractor saw.

Been there, done that, wound up replacing the cabinet saw with a sliding table saw.

I wish I hadn't wasted the money on the cabinet saw, and had gone straight to the slider.

More accurate, much greater capacity, safer, same foot print, better dust collection, much safer 3 position fence................Regards, Rod.

[Prashun Patel]

I didn't even consider that, but +1 on what Rod's saying. If money is truly not an object, consider a slider.

[Alan Lightstone]

I guess I'll be the contraian, I wouldn't upgrade to a cabinet saw from a contractor saw.

Been there, done that, wound up replacing the cabinet saw with a sliding table saw.

I wish I hadn't wasted the money on the cabinet saw, and had gone straight to the slider.

More accurate, much greater capacity, safer, same foot print, better dust collection, much safer 3 position fence................Regards, Rod.

That is if space is also no object. I highly modified my Sawstop contractor's saw basically making it into a cabinet saw, albeit with less power. Do I wish I had the more powerful saw - yes. Do I need it - probably not.

[Rod Sheridan]

That is if space is also no object. I highly modified my Sawstop contractor's saw basically making it into a cabinet saw, albeit with less power. Do I wish I had the more powerful saw - yes. Do I need it - probably not.

Yes Alan, space is an issue, however my sliding table saw takes up the same space as my small cabinet did, and it doesn't need an outfeed table.........Rod.

[Don Jarvie]

Isn't it funny how we all "discuss" amoungst ourselves what someone else should do?

How about this persepective, what do you want to make? Looking at you list, mirrors, a cradle and cabinets the contractors saw is fine for the mirrors and cradle. Having a bigger saw will make the cabinets easier to make since you can get 52 inches right of the blade with most fences now.

I was saying to myself the other night when I was making some shop cabinets how nice my PM 66 is. I started with a bench top saw, to a Deltas contractor, to a Walker Turner cabinet saw now a PM 66.

[Mark Qualizza]

Hi All
New to this forum. Like the one gentleman said "Need" is debatable I have just upgraded from a saw stop to a Felder KF700S I did not Need to but I sure do like it.

[Joseph Tarantino]

dave...not only do you need a cabinet saw, but only a 1940s vintage, 5 hp, 3 phase, "old arn", built like a battleship unisaw with a 72" biesmeyer fence and a sliding table will do. absolutely nothing else is acceptable for the type of projects you're into. if you can't get that, there really isn't any point to taking that next breath. :D

on a serious note, it sounds like your contractor TS is nicely set up. put additional funds towards tools missing from your shop. having the right tool at the right time is, IMHO, absolutely priceless.

[jonathan eagle]

Whatever you do, don't get a used saw! Most will not have the safety features you need.
Saving a few hundred is hardly worth the danger no matter how safe you try to work.

[frank shic]

well, at least you can build stuff with a cabinet saw... a mid-life sports car isn't nearly as practical!

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

Have you considered using a Festool track saw in lieu of a table saw? I have a Unisaw but since I got a TS75 saw I rarely use it for large sheet goods. It makes more sense to be able to accurately wield a saw over the sheet good, rather than the other way around. 3/4" plywood is mightee heavy. In addition, you need twice the footprint with a table saw, what with in-feed and out-feed. My Festool is much more accurate too. The finished cut is flawless, as if it's been hand planed to perfection. I know there are many anti-Festooligans here and I've perhaps opened this up to heated debate. All I'm saying is there are other (read better) options, than a bulky table saw.
The only downside to Festool that I see, is it's a very slippery slope once you get started, with the sanders, routers, planers, jigsaws, Kapex that inevitably follow your first purchase :eek:

[fRED mCnEILL]

My situation was a little different in that I had a contractors saw that needed to be adjusted regularily. So I bought a used General Cabinet saw and haven't had to adjust it yet in almost 15 years. I LOVE it. Go for it.

[Michael W. Clark]

I have a grizzly 1023Z cabinet saw and love it. However, I would agree with others that the newer saws have some very desirable safety features. If I were to buy new now, I would consider a new Grizzly with the riving knife. If money were not an object, I would definitely look at the industrial Sawstop, New Uni, and PM 66. The sliders sound good too, but do some good research to find out if there are any limitations with that configuration in regards to how you work. Invest in overarm/blade guard dust collection. I think Sawstop is offering the choice of overarm collection or mobile base.

I also second the Festool products. I don't have the tack saw (may be my next Festool purchases) but the sanders and vacs are awesome. They are very pricey, but the sanders are not in the same ballpark as a typical ROS. They cost more, but are technically different. You can't compare on price alone.

[Dave Anthony]

Thanks for all the feedback. I had a very nice birthday. Celebrated with my family, and received 2 polo shirts, a new pair of jeans and a new tape measure. Oh yeah - and a 3 hp Sawstop PCS with 36" rails, industrial mobile base, and above blade dust collection :) I think the Jessum sliding table & Benchdog router table will bolt right on, the table appears to be 27" deep. One possible issue might be the cabinet I built for the router table. Currently the top is bolted to the extension wing and a cabinet with castors. Since the saw will be lifted when the moble base is raised, I dont want the cabinet to be hanging from the rails. I was thinking I'd raise the router cabinet enough to add support when the saw is lowered. The top would be mounted to the extension wing and rails, and attached to the cabinet with bolts an inch or two longer than needed through oversize holes in the cabinet top. A nylon locknut would be attached to keep the bolt from pulling out, leaving an inch or two of extra play. When the saw is raised the top would be supported by the rails and attachment to the extension wing, while the weight of the cabinet would be born by it's castors. Any other ideas on the best way to accomplish this?

[Neil Brooks]

Really ?

What COLOR polo shirts ???
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:D

You suck !!! Congrats on the SS. Pics, and ... your thoughts ... once you're up and running, huh ?

Happy Birthday !

[mreza Salav]

happy birthday and congratulations on your nice shirts....er.... your nice shiny saw! I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

[Douglas Clark]

Just found this thread... It's funny how everyone had plenty to say when there was money to be spent, but no one stuck around to answer the tough questions when the real work began. I hope you were able to work through the router table dilemma, you're solution made sense to me.

However, happy belated birthday and congrats on the SS. I've been wrestling with the same problem of choosing to upgrade or not. I haven't decided, but you've got me thinkin', I have a birthday this year, too!

Have fun with the saw!

[frank shic]

great choice and enjoy!