Copper Handled Vase

[John Keeton]

I have a piece in progress at the moment that has some copper embellishments, as well as a copper tone dye treatment. Ms. Keeton and I both liked the color, and while working with the finishing process of that piece (longer than hoped!), I wanted to do another turning as well as use the same color. My inspirations come in spurts, and I have several sketches for turnings, including this little vase form.

This is a piece of very dry silver maple, with some spalting, a little Ambrosia, and more than a couple powder post beetle tracks! A perfect wood for a piece with a little rustic flavor. Some of you may recall a pitcher (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?154489-Pitcher-o-Burl%21/page4) I did a little over a year ago from a beautiful piece of box elder burl gifted me by Curt Fuller. It had a hammered copper handle, and I thought something similar might work on this piece.

A little under 7" tall and about 4" in diameter, with copper dye - equal parts of Transtint red, yellow and medium brown. This is my first piece using the General Woodturners Finish. As kind of a critique, I will offer the following.

As for viscosity, it is THIN! While this piece of wood would have been like a sponge for any finish, the first coat soaked in so quick you could nearly hear the sucking sound.:rolleyes: It remained cool and damp feeling for about 20 minutes and raised the grain a bit. I added another coat that remained wet for about 10 minutes or so. I then buffed the piece by hand with 0000. Another couple of coats were applied - each drying within 5 minutes. I would add our humidity has been in the 20-30% range for the last couple of days and I expect that shortened the drying time significantly. After about 15-20 minutes from the 4th coat, I buffed again with 0000 and liked the look.

This morning, it showed some dull areas as if the finish had soaked in more. I added three more coats, each drying within 5 minutes. I like to level my finishes by sanding with 1200, and usually do that with MS. However, not being sure of the effect on this finish, I sanded dry. With WOP, shellac or lacquer, dry sanding usually results in loaded sandpaper pretty quickly. Pleasantly, all I got was dry powder coming off the finish.

A short session with the 1200 paper, buffed lightly with 0000 and machine buffed with Tripoli resulted in a very level finish with a satin sheen. I feel certain that a more aggressive buffing with Tripoli, followed by White Diamond and wax would produce a nice gloss. I wanted the satin sheen for this one, but I do intend on trying the high gloss finish on the next turning. All in all, I like the finish and look forward to using it on other works. Whether it becomes a favorite will depend on whether I can get a nice, watery gloss from it. Certainly for a satin look, it is a sweet finish!

As always, I cherish your comments - good or bad. The years have calloused me and I handle abuse pretty well!

[Roger Chandler]

Super clean lines, John, and a very nice "S" curve which from what I can tell from the pics has no flat spots. I like the wood on this and your finish as well. I have gotten where I am liking the GF Woodturners finish a lot myself........I have used it on about 6 items so far and all with very good results............I have to thank Bernie W. for his putting me on to this stuff.

The copper handle is a real fit on this one, and another Keeton special that should give you some pride in your work. Keep the hits coming John..........we enjoy your adventure almost as much as you, I suspect! ;)

[James Combs]

Very nice John but I see a major defect in it. It's going to LEAK, nice try though.:D

[Allan Ferguson]

Won't hold milk, but I like it. Very pretty wood and shape.

[Hayes Rutherford]

No need for abuse here, praise would be more in order. A little curvature in the width and cross section of the copper strap might be nice and slightly less extra length on the bottom end where it leaves the vessel.

[Jim Burr]

Very nice John!! I like the way the red in the base glows around the base. Form is cool with no obvious boo boo's! No need to abuse you since you didn't do anything dumb! I do wish it was bigger...this seems to beg for 12-14" in height...but the finish is spot on!

[Roland Martin]

I really think you've done an outstanding job on this, John. The dye color and the copper go perfectly together, IMO. The form of the pitcher has a very "smooth" feel to it as does the handle. Very well done, you ought to be proud of this one. Thanks for sharing this.

[mike ash]

Absolutely innovative and beautiful piece. The only thing I would see changing, is to "age" the rivets holding the handle onto the vase (unless you are wanting them to sparkle!).

Great job, Mike

[Bill White]

Consider yourself fully abused, and I'm a big fan of satin or semi gloss finishes. Well done there.
Bill

[Paul Williams]

Great color and great lines. I like it even if it won't hold water.

[John Keeton]

Thanks, guys! I appreciate the comments.
I do wish it was bigger...this seems to beg for 12-14" in height...but the finish is spot on!Jim, I commented to Ms. Keeton that I might do a larger version, but the problem is in getting copper an appropriate size to form the handle. I think the order of events would be to find the copper, THEN scale the piece accordingly.


Absolutely innovative and beautiful piece. The only thing I would see changing, is to "age" the rivets holding the handle onto the vase (unless you are wanting them to sparkle!).

Great job, MikeMike, give them about 3-4 weeks. With no finish on them, it won't take long. The handle "ages" from the heating to anneal it several times while hammering it and bending it to shape.

[ray hampton]

John, nice vases but I was expecting a copper handle vise

[Scott Hackler]

I really like this John. Between the warm coloring in the wood and that very nice looking copper handle, you get a giant high five from me. Excellent work.

[Doug W Swanson]

Very pretty! The copper works so well with that Maple. Nice form and the curves in the wood and handle match nicely. Great job!

[Richard Jones]

Really pretty, John.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Beautiful work John! Love the rich coloring! You have that vase form nailed! Reminds me of a swan - very elegant! The copper handle is really cool but when you mentioned doing a larger vase... thought that you could braid a number (3) of copper wires together - then hammer them. Would make for a very interesting effect!

This one is a beauty John! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with next!!

[Dale Miner]

John,

Perfect interpretation and execution of the form.

I wonder if the wall thickness of larger copper tubing would be sufficient for your needs. Seems like 3" has a fairly heavy wall. Also, perhaps shops that do industrial electrical work would have copper buss bar, although it may be to thick. Large DC motors use copper bars instead of wire. Have you looked on ebay?

I like the hammered surface of the copper.

Dale

[Bill Wyko]

John, that is absolutelty stunning. The color fo the wood lends perfectly to the copper and the form is superb. Another excellent Keeton Kreation.

[Harvey Ghesser]

Superbly executed, John, and as others have said...a beautiful vase. The only thing (to my eye) that I would have liked to be different would be that the spout not be so extended. Perhaps a bit more rounded. Kinda like the base.

All in all, another classic Keeton beauty.

[David DeCristoforo]

This is a great form, John. And as usual, fantastic finish. As was the case with your other copper handled pitcher (which was also a beautiful form), I just don't care for the copper handle. I have no real good suggestions as to what might work "better" but this could work perfectly well without any handle at all. Only thing is you might have to call it a "decanter" instead of a pitcher.

[Joe Meirhaeghe]

Nice work John. Great color & the hammered copper is a excellent addition. As for the form I'm basically sold on it. Though I do wonder how it might look with a slightly slimmer neck & the spout not cut down quite as much.

[Steve Vaughan]

Man, I really like that one! Ya'll are something else. This is another one for the inspiration-want-to-get-to-one-day file for sure. Beautiful work John.

[Bob Bergstrom]

Nice to see something that has a practical use ( I think). Really like the curves on the vase and the repeat of them in the handle. You have got a good handle ( Ouch, bad pun) on the semi curves. Great shapes and finish.

[Bill Bolen]

All that seems to be left to say is "sweet piece" John! Find myself really taken with it.

[Jamie Donaldson]

It has to be art, because it sure won't hold water! I am curious about how the rivets were fastened on the interior?

[Curt Fuller]

That's a real beauty John! I think this one is even prettier than the BE burl pitcher because the coloring of the wood looks so nice with the copper. And I really like the longer scooped opening too. What this needs now is a matching bowl to sit on the night stand.

[Baxter Smith]

Beautiful work on the curves, color and finish John! I can't find anything to be critical of. The length of the spout may be a little exagerated but it seems balanced by the length of the end of the handle... or vice versa. That exageration seems to contribute to the striking effect of the piece.

[Rick Markham]

It's awesome John! The color is spectacular, and the shape is equally spectacular! It's a gorgeous piece!

[David E Keller]

Neat piece, John! I like the attitude imparted by the lip and the way you made the handle parallel to the opposite side of the form. The only distracting thing is the brightness of the copper rivets attaching the handle... A little time and handling will fix that. Great stuff!

[John Beaver]

John, Nice work on the vase, Did you hollow the whole thing through the top, or did you do the base through the bottom?

I appreciate the write-up on the finish.
What is the main ingredient of the finish ? With something that cures like that I worry about the longevity it. What do you think ?

[Kathy Marshall]

Beautiful in all respects John! I love the form just as it is and everything that goes with it. Wonderful job!

[robert baccus]

Really nice curves, inovation and coloring. i appreciate the tryout on the finish. i'm still suspecious? about "new"finishes though. most turn out to be a remixing of old products with catchy names or applications. this appears to be a thinned out waterbased "varnish" which takes many coats to acquire even a flat finish. no one can tell me the # of coats and sandings to reach a gloss finish. the cost per quart of the very thin product is very high as well. the manuf. indicates it takes several coats of their special product to fill pores prior to the application of this product, which wasn't a problem on your maple piece. I may be too lazy and poor to change my ways. just my thoughts---------old forester

[John Keeton]

You folks are way too kind!! Thanks for all the comments.

...when you mentioned doing a larger vase... thought that you could braid a number (3) of copper wires together - then hammer them. Would make for a very interesting effect!Excellent idea, Steve!!! And that is one of the many reasons you have been my mentor over this last couple of years!:) I would need to join the separate wires into a solid end on either end of the handle, but I think I can come up with a way to do that.


It has to be art, because it sure won't hold water! I am curious about how the rivets were fastened on the interior?Thanks, Jamie - art was what I was after!:D After all, it really is just another ogee curve - and, you know how I like them!

The process for the handle was the same on the previous pitcher. The holes were first drilled in the handle, then marked on the surface of the vase and drilled in the vase. The "rivets" are really the heads from copper tacks. Two tack heads were prepared beforehand and tested to be the right length to meet in the middle. The top connection was done first. 5-minute epoxy was applied to the surface of the handle (formed to fit the curve of the area) and the hole was filled with a little epoxy. I placed the tack heads and physically held the connection for 5-6 minutes until the glue cured. I always "test" the glue by touching the little pile I work from to assure it is cured before releasing pressure on the connection. I then did the same for the lower connection, but there is no corresponding tack head on the interior as it is not accessible - nor can be seen. After the glue has fully cured, I use a fine milled file to smooth the surface of the tack heads and relieve the edges a little.


John, Nice work on the vase, Did you hollow the whole thing through the top, or did you do the base through the bottom?

I appreciate the write-up on the finish.
What is the main ingredient of the finish ? With something that cures like that I worry about the longevity it. What do you think ?John, it is hollowed from the top prior to shaping the spout/rim. A little tight! If I do a larger piece, I think hollowing will be easier - to a point. It is one of those things I will need to look at on paper to assure I can access the entire interior with the Monster rig.

I appreciate the tryout on the finish. i'm still suspecious? about "new"finishes though. most turn out to be a remixing of old products with catchy names or applications. this appears to be a thinned out waterbased "varnish" which takes many coats to acquire even a flat finish. no one can tell me the # of coats and sandings to reach a gloss finish. the cost per quart of the very thin product is very high as well. the manuf. indicates it takes several coats of their special product to fill pores prior to the application of this product, which wasn't a problem on your maple piece. I may be too lazy and poor to change my ways. just my thoughts---------old forester
Regarding the finish, it is expensive - but really only a couple of dollars more than the Minwax WOP in the quart size. And, I suspect the shelf life may be better. In the end, it may be cheaper. It seemed the last 2-3 coats "built" better than the WOP.

General describes this as "a non-toxic water/oil urethane hybrid" and the ingredients are as follows:

Water 60-70%
Proprietary Glycol ethers 3-10%
Proprietary Polyurethane 7-25%
Proprietary Nonionic polyethylene 3-5%
N-Methyl-2-pyrrolidone <6%
Trimethlybenzene-1,2,4 1-1.5%

I suspect the Glycol ethers account for the rapid evaporation. By comparison, according to the MSDS, Minwax WOP is 70% mineral spirits, and the evaporation rate is less than that of ether. The WOP also has linseed oil as a component. I don't see that listed with the General finish, though it does say "water/oil" hybrid. With both products, the resin component seems to be within the same range. The main solid in both is polyurethane, but the General has an added polyethylene, a much harder plastic. I often use Krylon Acrylic Matte spray, and it has a distinct "feel" to it after buffing - quite different than the WOP. The General finish has much the same feel, and I think that may be from the polyethylene. The trimethlybenzene is a "scintillator" - had to look that one up! Apparently, it is used to cause a reflective quality, and I would presume that is to give the finish the appearance of clarity or depth.

I have high hopes for this finish, but who really knows. It is new, and yet to undergo the rigors of UV light, and handling. But, it does seem to have the right qualities for our use on turnings. I do intend to push the limit on getting a nice gloss finish with it. We will see how it goes and rest assured, I will report the results!!

Thanks, again!

[Jerry Wright]

John: A really nice "mixed media" object. As an old "heater and beater", I really like the handle. BTW, onlinemetals.com carries a large selection of copper flat bar. You might find what you need there.

[John Keeton]

Jerry, thanks for the comment - and, especially for the link - perfect! They have just what I think it will take for a larger piece, and the price is not as bad as expected.

[Michelle Rich]

the shape is wonderful..so smooth..what , you didn't steambend the handle? :-) I like the finish at this stage. an elegant water pitcher.

[steven carter]

John this is fantastic. You did a great job on the color of this one, it sure goes well with the copper handle.

[Bill Hensley]

John the dye and finish are up to your usual standards but it's the form that steals the show. There is a feel of gracefulness about it. It's a nice departure from your usual forms. I know you went to a lot of trouble to get the handle on it but mentally I hardly see it.

Thanks for the finish info, haven't tried that one but will in the near future. I did a little research a while back on the various wipe on finishes and it's fun trying to interpret/decipher the content data from the MSDSs.

[Alan Trout]

John,

That is a really neat piece. Very well done.

Alan

[Todd Bin]

John, really nice piece. I like the color and the form. Could you expound a little on how you attached the handle? Are those tacks of some sort and did you epoxy it on in addition to the tacks?

Thanks,
Todd

[Robert Henrickson]

Beautiful shape and finish. The dye looks natural -- it didn't occur to me at first glance that there was any use of dye.

[Tim Rinehart]

John, I do vividly remember your other vase and how much I liked it. This one has beautiful flowing lines, and I love the hammered copper.
I haven't got back to my blacksmith friends house since my first project, but seeing this makes me want to even more.
Good review on the finish, look forward to longer term impression, but so far, it sounds like a nice finish. How would you compare the "ambering" effect this finish has compared with the likes of Danish Oils, BLO, Tung Oil..etc?
Hey...this piece rocks John, I love it and look forward to seeing others.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Beautiful piece John. Really nice warm color that goes really well with the handle. Form just makes it a elegant piece. I do like the woodturners finish. It takes about 10 to 12 light coats to get a nice shine. I have a salad/cereal bowl that I have used almost everyday for a couple of months now that still looks pretty good.

[John Keeton]

Thanks for all the additional comments!
John, really nice piece. I like the color and the form. Could you expound a little on how you attached the handle? Are those tacks of some sort and did you epoxy it on in addition to the tacks?

Thanks,
ToddTodd, I covered that in Post #33. However, if you have other questions, PM me and I will be glad to provide more info.


How would you compare the "ambering" effect this finish has compared with the likes of Danish Oils, BLO, Tung Oil..etc?Thanks, Tim. Since this was not applied to an otherwise natural color maple, the ambering effect was difficult to assess. I color a lot of my work, but I will let you know if I try it on a natural maple piece. Bernie might have an idea on the amber issue - or others that have used it on light colored woods.

[Lee Koepke]

John,

Its very difficult to criticize ....... it seems that I like each new piece you create is better than the last. I'd say for now, this is my favorite. Its unique, well crafted, perfectly finished (as you typically do)

Very nicely done!

[Dick Mahany]

John,

A little late to chime in here, but the piece is exquisite. Your many different pieces have been a great testament to the evolution of ideas and craftsmanship over time and they provide so much for a learner like me to aspire to. This forum is so filled with talented people and you all have made my head spin thinking about how I can get there as well.

[Dan Forman]

John---The form on this is so beautiful, and is only heightened by the lovely copper handle. A lesser form might have been overpowered. Just superb!

Dan

[robert baccus]

Appreciate the kickback and expansion on the finish. the shape and handle are superb and especially the dywork. i try & try for a good gold or copper and they are difficult for me to hit. i'm a bit biased on the finish--it takes 2 coats of straight SS and 1/2 hour drying and a really open grain wood is as slick as a babby's bu**. 3 coats of laquer-wet sand-buff on the lathe and sign. maybe 2 hours. but i will try this for a matt finish on maple. again i appreciate your thourgh? research and experiences.------old forester

[John Keeton]

Robert, sounds like you have your finishing technique downpat! Sometimes, I wish I could settle into one method, but I keep experimenting. My real wish is for a super nice spray setup, but the clean up is what keeps me from going that direction. I usually do one piece at a time, and it seems the hassle of getting out the spray equipment, setting up, cleaning up, etc. for one piece just wouldn't be worth it.

I will explore this new finish more since I now own the entire quart!
John,

A little late to chime in here, but the piece is exquisite. Your many different pieces have been a great testament to the evolution of ideas and craftsmanship over time and they provide so much for a learner like me to aspire to. This forum is so filled with talented people and you all have made my head spin thinking about how I can get there as well.Thanks, Dick! But, the phrase "many different pieces" is the exact opposite the "consistent body of work" that many galleries want to see. Someday, I will get all of this experimentation out of my system and settle into something "consistent" - or not - I guess I am just not concerned enough yet about the "consistency" part!

[Russell Eaton]

I have been to busy working on my shop, and this slipped right by me. This is a incredible piece. Just what we have grown accustom to with several members here. Love the handle, well done sir.