Which plane next?

[Dale Coons]

I have a 60 1/2 block plane (stanley) and two 14" jack planes (a sargent and a craftsman) inherited from grandfathers and rehabbed to working well. Wondering what would be a good next plane to fill out the stable. I think I probably need something in the middle, but not sure what. Just starting with handwork, but I'd say I'm a serious hobbyist. Any recommendations?

[Terry Beadle]

I would recommend you setting up one of those jack planes as a smoother. Just put less curve on the cutting edge, tighten up the mouth, make sure the sole is dead flat and bob's your uncle.

To add to your set, I'd recommend a jointer. Either a 7 or 8. The normal sequence of squaring stock is use the jack, then the jointer, then finish with the smoother. End grain can be shot with the jointer or your block plane.

I have a Record 07 with a Clifton HSS blade and it's cost is less than $150 total. Super flat and shoots well. Having a jointer will give you the basics as you slide down the slope.

Enjoy the process !

[Joel Goodman]

I would recommend you setting up one of those jack planes as a smoother. Just put less curve on the cutting edge, tighten up the mouth, make sure the sole is dead flat and bob's your uncle.

To add to your set, I'd recommend a jointer. Either a 7 or 8. The normal sequence of squaring stock is use the jack, then the jointer, then finish with the smoother. End grain can be shot with the jointer or your block plane.


+1... Very good advice!!

[Christian Thompson]

I guess it depends on what kind of work you want to do with your planes. Do you want to dimension rough stock or will you use a planer? Do you want to joint edges for glue up or will you use a power jointer? How about grooves and rabbets? Do you want to do those by hand or with a router? With 2 jacks you can do a lot - grind one to have a cambered iron and the other to be straight. Then you can use the cambered one for rough lumber and the the straight one for jointing and smoothing. So maybe focus on getting those rehabbed and put them to use until you find a need for another one. Otherwise, the list that I would consider are: jointer, plow, rabbet, and smoother.

[Bobby O'Neal]

I think go with a smoother next. Either using one of your current jacks as such, or buying a dedicated No. 4. Then you don't need to sand anymore!

Though, the point of non bench plane options is interesting if you want to make joinery by hand. I find myself (as a hybrid type) in a similar situation. I own a Woodriver No. 5, a Bailey No. 4, a LN 40 1/2 and a Stanley (new) 60 1/2. I think my next will be a shoulder plane. I would probably go for a jointer next but it will likely just be a need based buy. I currently cut dadoes and grooves on a table saw or sometimes with a router and probably will continue to do so but a shoulder and router plane to refine them will be nice.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

If I had to pick just one, I'd go with a jointer, but that's because of how I work. If the jobs for a jointer plane are something you cover with power tools, then a smoother is probably a better choice. But I can make do with a jack as a smoother easier than I can make do with a jack as a jointer, but that's just how I work and the wood I start with. With the wood and way I work, I'd rather spend good money on a nice jointer plane, and then grab a cheap used stanley #4 or #3 for a smoother, clean it up and slap a Lee Valley blade in it - I'd rather go cheap on a smoother than go cheap on a jointer.

[Chris Griggs]

+1 on a jointer!

[Bill Haumann]

For a next bench plane, jointer advice is good.
If you are considering a joinery plane, a large router plane is very versatile.

[steven c newman]

I have FIVE planes right now, and looking for others. I have a #110 block plane, a #33 , a #3, and a #4 smooth plane group, and a BIG old Stanley #8c, type 9, for the rough work.

[Dale Coons]

Well, hadn't thought about setting up the two jacks differently, but it sure makes sense! One has a fair amount of backlash in the adjuster, I'm thinking I could camber a blade and put it in that one for rougher cuts--I have a Hock iron and chipbreaker that would probably work better in the other one, which has a lot tighter adjustments. How flat is flat enough for the sole of the plane? I've done a lot of work on one--it's dead flat except for maybe a half inch at the tip on one side of the toe where there's some pitting, and maybe a half-inch circle in the middle at the end of the heel. I think that is probably good, or should I keep working at it? The other I haven't really done anything on the sole yet, but appearance wise it doesn't look bad--there are a couple of good scratches but otherwise ok. I'm pretty sure neither of them ever had any work done on them, both granddads were construction workers, not finish carpenters, so I imagine it was pretty rough work. Mostly I'm fixing these up to have around/use and remember them by. One question I do have is how much camber is a good place to start? I'm thinking I should use one of the original irons for that, and use the Hock for the smoother.

Right now my wood joinery/flattening is 'power assisted', and will probably stay that way for a while--I don't have a bench. I did build a moxon vise to use on the end of a table saw. I've just started doing hand cut dovetails. I guess I was thinking of planes mostly for cleaning edges up and leveling proud dovetail ends. I suppose I should try flattening a board or two just to see how tough I find it. I know I'd like to build a bench at some point, at least a small one. I don't really have room for some of the beauties I've seen here!

[Jim Koepke]

Dale,

From what you have posted, my suggestion for your next plane to acquire would be a smoother in #3, #4 or #4-1/2 size.

Which one would depend on your own needs and preferences.

For smaller work I like the #3. For bigger panels the #4-1/2 is used. Currently there are 3 #4s in my shop. One is set with a real tight mouth for taking just a few cuts on tricky spots. Another one is set up for a rougher cut in places were there may be a bump in the middle of a piece being joined or rough finished. The third is a junker/Frankenplane that can be used for any of the above or cleaning up unknown pieces that may have a nail or rock embedded in the surface.

Jointers are great planes to have. If you are using powered equipment for jointing and initial surface preparation a plane for that purpose could be redundant.

Lately I have been working with a lot of ash. After sharpening the blades on my jointers I am a bit amused that The pieces don't need to be smoothed after being hit with the jointer.

What it all comes down to is that each person needs to find for themselves what will best fill the needs in their shop.

For what I have been doing of late, even with all the planes in my shop, another #4-1/2 and #5-1/2 are at the top of my want list.

jtk

[James Owen]

If you need to refine your grooves and, especially, dadoes, take a look at a pair of side rabbet planes from LN or LV, or the vintage double-ended side rabbet from Stanley. They will help you in widening your groove a hair at a time until it fits perfectly.

A router plane will clean up the bottom, and, for that purpose, is much more versatile than a shoulder plane.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm also a power-assisted jointing/flattening kind of guy most of the time, so my planes are concentrated at the smooth end of the scale.

For flattening dovetails I prefer a low angle block plane.

Given your descrip of how you work, I vote for a #4 or a #3. If you are up for purchasing a new plane, you might consider the low angle offerings from Veritas or LN. For some, these type planes excel at smoothing figure and end grain.

[john brenton]

That's what I was thinking. Even though I do everything by hand, I don't know how much I really need long planes. I have two, a 24" and a 20" and I use them because they should be used...but I've made flat without them plenty of times.


For a next bench plane, jointer advice is good.
If you are considering a joinery plane, a large router plane is very versatile.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

If you need to refine your grooves and, especially, dadoes, take a look at a pair of side rabbet planes from LN or LV, or the vintage double-ended side rabbet from Stanley. They will help you in widening your groove a hair at a time until it fits perfectly.

A router plane will clean up the bottom, and, for that purpose, is much more versatile than a shoulder plane.

I really wanted to buy a shoulder plane, but the more work I do, the better I am with a chisel and really question whether I'd need a shoulder plane that much. I guess it would make some things quicker.

The router plane, I agree with, is super convenient at times, and while that's a job I used to do with a chisel, the router plane makes the process a little less fidgety. That said, I strive to fit all those types of joints off the saw without trimming.

The side rabbet planes, I wonder about - are folks really refining grooves that much? I hear these recommended so much, and I've always taken the approach to trim whatever is going in the groove; I've always found that a pretty simple process, even the times where it involves grabbing a rabbet or filletster plane.

[lowell holmes]

I have a pretty good selection, 604, 605, 607, bu jack and bu smoother. I'm surprised at how often I pick up the #3 Bailey. It used to be a school plane. I use it more than the 604 Bedrock.

[James Owen]

.....The side rabbet planes, I wonder about - are folks really refining grooves that much? I hear these recommended so much, and I've always taken the approach to trim whatever is going in the groove; I've always found that a pretty simple process, even the times where it involves grabbing a rabbet or filletster plane.

It seems to me that whether the side rabbets would be useful depends a lot on whether you prefer to size the groove or what is going into the groove. I prefer to size the groove, but it's probably more common (and easier/faster) to size what goes into the groove.....

[Bobby O'Neal]

I think the shoulder plane is more appealing to me because I do prefer to size the tenon instead of the mortise/groove.

[Mike Holbrook]

Or the OP could try his hand at making a smoother wood plane, there are even a few kits around. I found this to be a good project to get experience using basic hand tools. Once the skills are learned you can make all the planes you want.

[Sean Richards]

The side rabbet planes, I wonder about - are folks really refining grooves that much? I hear these recommended so much, and I've always taken the approach to trim whatever is going in the groove; I've always found that a pretty simple process, even the times where it involves grabbing a rabbet or filletster plane.

Agreed - most of the time a couple of swipes off the thickness of whatever is going into a groove/dado is the way to go. Sometimes on a particular job I find the side rebate plane very handy - not essential though.

[Dale Coons]

Wow, this is dangerous territory--far more options than I initially thought about! Sounds like I need to go play with a few different things! Back to camber though--as a starting point, is this the sort of thing that a few swipes with pressure on the edges of the iron produces, or do I want to be more aggressive? I'm trying to get some idea of 'how much is enough' as a starting point?

[Justin Green]

I'd say jointer. I have 3-8, and I just spent more than a few hours with my number 8 flattening my new bench top, using it as a jack plane. I recently purchased a Stanley 78 and a LV router plane, and the next on my list is a LV plow plane (only one I can find for a lefty). After that, I think I am pretty set until I stumble upon a shoulder plane I can't live without.

My number fours seem to be multiplying like rabbits. I have to have ten of them now. My mother does estate sales and always tells me about the planes she finds. 99% are #4's. It is interesting to get them and see how the blade was sharpened. It tells you a lot about the last person to own the plane. A few of them have had the edges slightly cambered, which I kept cambered when sharpening. It's slight, but helps a rookie like me reduce the plane tracks I leave. Interestingly, many of the planes I have picked up were not sharpened square, had rounded bevels, etc. but one #5 I found had about an 8" radius and was sharpened fairly well, telling me someone probably knew a bit about using it well.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Wow, this is dangerous territory--far more options than I initially thought about! Sounds like I need to go play with a few different things! Back to camber though--as a starting point, is this the sort of thing that a few swipes with pressure on the edges of the iron produces, or do I want to be more aggressive? I'm trying to get some idea of 'how much is enough' as a starting point?

It depends on what you're doing - on a smoother or jointer, some folks don't camber at all, just ease the corners to prevent "tracks" in the finished wood. If you're taking a light enough cut with a smoother, you don't even need to do that if you're careful. Honing by hand or with an eclipse-style honing jig, I only put a bit of camber in these two blades by adding pressure to the edges while I'm on my coarse stone - it's really only cambered enough that you only notice it when holding it up against an edge.

Assuming you're talking about the jack planes, however, I like to start with a lot of camber. It doesn't have to be a perfect arc - in fact, mine has been sharpened and honed away quite a bit more in the middle, so it's a little more ovalish than an arc. On my bevel up plane, I'm started using almost a 7" radius, I believe, and then backed it off by honing in the middle a little more. I think I'd heard something like an 8 and a half inch radius thrown around for bevel down planes. The idea is that it makes scooping out a nice honking big shaving easier, although you're still working across the grain when you do this. On softwoods, sometimes you're taking off a 16th or something in the middle of the bite when working across the grain. I probably could take more, but it gets both a little unwieldy and a little much for the purposes of dialing things in when doing this.

I believe Derek Cohen covered this a bit on his site, and I know Chris Schwarz discussed it a bit with Roy Underhill on the current season of The Woodwright's Shop.

I find it easier to start with a tight radius, (a lot of camber) and then remove more from the center of the blade if it's too much, than to try and make the camber greater after the fact. (I've gone back and forth both ways, surfacing a lot of softwood, then a lot of hardwood - ideally, I'd like two blades, one for rough surfacing each, but I think I've found a decent middle ground. ) If you're not getting as wide enough of a shaving as you'd like without going much deeper than you can push or control, you can remove a little camber, if you're getting hung up on the corners of the blade, you can add a little more. Doing this rough work, we're not really concerned about plane tracks, the jointer and smoother will clean those up (along with the undulating surface left by the jack plane) but something about those corners digging in makes working across the grain harder, and taking big "bites" difficult. If working across the grain, you'll also see it sort of pull up splinters along the edges of the plane tracks, sort of the same way a saw cut blows out if you don't knife the line. I don't really know how to explain it, but you'll feel it.

I was going to suggest you just walk down to Lie Nielsen and have them show you, but then I realized you were in Warren MI, not Warren ME!