preferred method for tapering a cabinet door edge

[frank shic]

what are most people using: jointer or tablesaw crosscut sled with shims? if you are using a jointer, how do you do it? do you drop (figuratively speaking) the wood on the cutter head so that part of the door is already resting on the outfeed side and feed it through the rest of the way? i'm doing this for my bathroom vanities which are beaded inset face frames and despite my best efforts, the openings are not completely square.

[John TenEyck]

You might want to look in some back issues of FWW for fitting doors. There are two or three really good articles over the years, and they helped me a lot in how best to go about it (besides slowly). I've used several ways to trim doors, and my favorite is with a crosscut sled and shims. It just seems pretty foolproof to me. But for really big doors, the ones that won't fit in my CCS, I clamp a straight edge on the door and use a flush trim router bit. Absolutely foolproof but slow to set up compared to the CCS. I know many people use the jointer approach, but it's never worked well for me. I always manage to get a snipe or ridge somewhere. In any case, I always leave a smidgeon extra and sneak up on the final fit with a handplane or sandpaper on a block. Good luck.

John

[Bill White]

Uh...Have ya tried a hand plane?
Bill

[frank shic]

the two i've read were by christian becksvoort who uses a jointer and that other guy svetgoens (sp?) who uses a crosscut sled. i think i'll just use some shims on my sliding table although it's harder to freehand the cut when there's no reference line like you'd have on a sled...

[Jeff Duncan]

Jointer works and so does a hand plane depends on how many doors, how far off I am, what kind of wood, and frankly what mood I'm in. For 2 doors not having done it on a jointer before I'd second the hand plane approach.....woodworking 101:)

Tablesaw with shims??? That would be pretty far down my list of options...but to each their own.

good luck,
JeffD

[frank shic]

tbh i would prefer to use a hand plane except my bench vise is currently lying forlorn on the garage floor right now since there's no good bench to mount it on presently. i tried using the workmate bench last night but it wouldn't hold the drawer front securely enough :(

[John Nesmith]

I've used a large CC sled with shims, and snuck up on a good fit.

[Sam Murdoch]

Attach a piece of ply to your table saw fence that is shimmed out on one end to the correct taper. Simple and safe to then pass your door.
I use the jointer, if this situation ever dares to arise in my shop :mad: :D.

[frank shic]

that's an interesting alternative, sam. thanks!

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Not sure about this technique. The width of cut is the perpendicular distance from the front of the blade to the fence. If the fence is not parallel it just leads to binding or kickback. It doesn't taper the cut. If you add a long tapered shim to the door it could be safe but I still don't recommend it.
A handplane is the best way to do this IMHO.
Salem

[Sam Murdoch]

Not sure about this technique. The width of cut is the perpendicular distance from the front of the blade to the fence. If the fence is not parallel it just leads to binding or kickback. It doesn't taper the cut. If you add a long tapered shim to the door it could be safe but I still don't recommend it.
A handplane is the best way to do this IMHO.
Salem

Oh yes, your are absolutely right! That's why I use the jointer. Sorry Frank, I know better, but just went through a mental flat spot. :confused:
What will work - and this is how I usually cut table saw tapers when my mind isn't on dumb mode - is to attach a piece to my work that sets my
edge to the proper angle. This may not be practical for creating a taper on a door that you don't want to screw into. Jointer, hand plane, or track saw
are the normal options.

A humble Sam

[Steven Green]

Another vote for the crosscut sled and shims. It's easy and very adjustable. Also doesn't take anything but the shims and a sled that a lot of us have and use often.

[Steve Jenkins]

I know this doesn't help you but this is one of the places where a sliding table saw really shines. Just lay the door on the table at the angle you need and push it past the blade.

[frank shic]

alright, i did some trimming last night and used a combination of the sliding table saw like both steve's mentioned and shimmed it with a scrap of sandpaper sometimes by itself or folded over when i needed more of a taper. sam, don't worry i didn't feel like grabbing an extra piece of plywood and couldn't figure out how to attach it to the fence flat anyways! the jointer worked great once the right angle was established but i noticed one problem i kept having: how do you prevent blowout on the cuts going across the rail ends? i tried feeding one end first like the becksvoort article showed and then reversing it but i kept getting blowout anyways... which i would eventually joint off but it got me wondering how a hand plane would handle this situation any better? i think i'll probably just end up clamping a sacrificial piece of wood to the end unless anyone has any better ideas. couldn't figure out how to do the taper on the jointer and really didn't want to experiment on the drawer fronts. it's extremely gratifying though when you nail the reveals although i blew it on at least one drawer front where the reveals came out closer to 3/32 rather than 1/16 - btw did you know those spacers used for laying down laminate flooring come in really handy as shims?

[Todd Burch]

I use my horizontal edge sander. :D

[frank shic]

alright, todd... i'll bite! which brand?

[John TenEyck]

A very sharp handplane set for a whisper thin cut will cut the door ends cleanly, including the ends of the stiles. A low angle jack plane works great but I get by with a normal smoothing plane. Of course you have to plane towards the center for both stiles to avoid blowout. After I make my cuts on the table saw CCS, I use a handplane to clean up the edges and trim the last 1/64" or so. A handplane is also ideal for putting a slight taper on the center stiles for two doors that close towards each other, or for an inset door.

BTW, a 1/16" reveal might be too little if you have solid drawer fronts and they are inset. They are going to swell when the humidity goes up this Summer. It would be best to calculate how much reveal you should leave, if you haven't already done so.

John

[frank shic]

ah yes that makes sense since that's what the jointer method seeks to accomplish as well by jointing towards the middle portion of the raised panel drawer front but i don't know why i kept getting a slight ridge. i probably need more practice. you think 1/16" is too little? i thought it looked HUGE X) i really need to get my bench vise reinstalled and sharpen up the hand planne...

[Todd Burch]

Here's my bad boy sander. 3HP 3PH Powermatic 9" x 138.75" Oscillating Edge Sander.

226588

Looks like the price has gone up since I bought mine ('04) - $4800+ on Amazon. I think I paid ~$3500 and change. They sell a single phase model now too.

http://www.powermatic.com/Products.aspx?Part=1791293&cat=332204

[frank shic]

you are KILLING me... i was expecting a ridgid or a delta oss... well, if i had one of those i probably wouldn't be playing around with the jointer as much lol

[Todd Burch]

he he he he!

[Sam Murdoch]

You can do a lot of damage to a door edge real fast with a sander like Todd is showing :eek: - great rig to have on hand though!
As for the end grain blow out – if you dare consider any more of my advice Frank (others) :o – what I often do is clamp a block to the end of my door exactly flush with the rail end so that the block backs up the end grain. This works very well. My block is oriented to be edge grain to the cutter rather than more end grain. A variation on that technique is that clamping a block on the end slightly proud of the rail end allows you to joint a taper along the length of the door or panel. This might have worked for you Frank with your recent problem.

Sam

[mreza Salav]

It seems simple to me: take a piece of wood and attach it (using masking tape?) to the opposite side edge with a small shim in between
it and the door. That gives you the taper angle you want. That piece rides on the fence of the table-saw and you'd get a taper parallel to that on the other side edge.
Simple and fast.

[frank shic]

sam, i'm going to try just holding it with light hand pressure as i make the passes over the jointer. mreza, thanks for the idea. i think i'll stink with my sliding table + sandpaper shims for now. i haven't even gotten to the paired doors which will undeniably be a barrel of laughs :)

[John TenEyck]

ah yes that makes sense since that's what the jointer method seeks to accomplish as well by jointing towards the middle portion of the raised panel drawer front but i don't know why i kept getting a slight ridge. i probably need more practice. you think 1/16" is too little? i thought it looked HUGE X) i really need to get my bench vise reinstalled and sharpen up the hand planne...

I don't know if 1/16" is too little. Sounds like you don't either. Go look in Hoadley's book and run the calculations for your drawer fronts, and then you'll know. I'll hazard a guess though, that if your drawer fronts are inset, and are plain sawn and more than 6" wide, and your shop is like mine right now at 40% RH, then 1/16" is most likely not enough.

John

[frank shic]

well, it turns out that these little laminate flooring shims are actually 2mm plus the fact that all of them are five piece panel assemblies i think they'll be alright. i did figure out last night that you can minimize blowout on the cross grain jointing by just using a push stick behind the trailing edge although this was on narrow drawer fronts. keeping the doors tight to the fence while using this push stick method might be a little trickier in which case i'll probably just clamp the wood to the frame temporarily. last night actually went pretty well because all the openings were square... it almost seemed like cheating although it was still fairly time-consuming as i went really slow and would periodically measure to make sure i wasn't taking too much off from any one side. i did briefly try tapering by tilting a scrap piece up at an angle and it didn't feel that secure. thanks for everyone's advice!

[Rod Sheridan]

tbh i would prefer to use a hand plane except my bench vise is currently lying forlorn on the garage floor right now since there's no good bench to mount it on presently. i tried using the workmate bench last night but it wouldn't hold the drawer front securely enough :(

Frank, that tends to indicate to me that your plane isn't sharp. I can hold a piece of wood in my hand and use a block plane on it.

I would use a block or #3 plane and just a simple planing stop on a bench or even a table, with a planing stop you can hold the work with one hand, plane with the other......Rod.

[frank shic]

yup, you're probably right. i hate sharpening i'll admit!