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Larry Edgerton
03-05-2012, 5:17 PM
Ok, first let me state, I am not into computers and will never be. They are not at all interesting to me, just the information that they can bring me.

What I really don't want is a techical lecture that takes off with a few computer geeks talking to themselves. Hate to sound selfish, but this thread is about me and what I need. And right now I need help.

Last time I bought a computer I had more money and just checked all the boxes and told them I wanted the Arnold Swartzanegger model so I have this totally outdated dual processor Dell, that in 14 years has used about 14% of its memory. Its getting close to useless and it has still cost me $314 a year. I want to take a different tact this time....

Most bang for the buck! Replace sooner.....

Reliability and service are important as well.

I have been reading all day, took the day off, and I still have not reached a conclusion. I like Systemax and Lotus as they are at least assembled in the USA, but that is not a deal breaker either. Couldn't find out a lot about either company from anyone that did not sell them.

Requirements? I am just using the internet to harass people on a few forums, looking for materials, and keeping track of my business, that not being so difficult a task these days. No gaming or graphic design so no big loads. I may tackle a cad program again when I get more time, but god knows when that will be.

I have an idea that an Intel i3 and about 4-8 gb ram are about right, but feel free to straighten me out. I am thinking Windows 7 Pro, and I like the office programs I have now so adding that. Beyond that am I missing anything?

Any screaming deals?

Remember I am a computer illiterate, so talk slow....

Thanks, Larry

Paul McGaha
03-05-2012, 5:19 PM
Larry,

The last few years we've been buying Dell computers from Costco.

We find them to be a pretty good bang for the buck.

Performance wise they've done ok.

Good luck with it.

PHM

Chuck Wintle
03-05-2012, 5:28 PM
why not buy a Dell as they have many models with some at the lower end the spectrum that will do exactly what you want...or HP for that matter.

Tim Boger
03-05-2012, 5:37 PM
Ok, first let me state, I am not into computers and will never be. They are not at all interesting to me, just the information that they can bring me.

What I really don't want is a techical lecture that takes off with a few computer geeks talking to themselves. Hate to sound selfish, but this thread is about me and what I need. And right now I need help.













Last time I bought a computer I had more money and just checked all the boxes and told them I wanted the Arnold Swartzanegger model so I have this totally outdated dual processor Dell, that in 14 years has used about 14% of its memory. Its getting close to useless and it has still cost me $314 a year. I want to take a different tact this time....

Most bang for the buck! Replace sooner.....

Reliability and service are important as well.

I have been reading all day, took the day off, and I still have not reached a conclusion. I like Systemax and Lotus as they are at least assembled in the USA, but that is not a deal breaker either. Couldn't find out a lot about either company from anyone that did not sell them.

Requirements? I am just using the internet to harass people on a few forums, looking for materials, and keeping track of my business, that not being so difficult a task these days. No gaming or graphic design so no big loads. I may tackle a cad program again when I get more time, but god knows when that will be.

I have an idea that an Intel i3 and about 4-8 gb ram are about right, but feel free to straighten me out. I am thinking Windows 7 Pro, and I like the office programs I have now so adding that. Beyond that am I missing anything?

Any screaming deals?

Remember I am a computer illiterate, so talk slow....

Thanks, Larry


Larry, I just bought this about 2 months ago and couldn't be happier.

Check it out. (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp;jsessionid=741A1EDE81D3DEA962EFE832 F62A084B.bbolsp-app04-25?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_dynSessConf=7697607692364474434&id=pcat17071&type=page&st=asus+u56e&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=15&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960)

Tim

Matt Meiser
03-05-2012, 5:41 PM
First, you failed to mention Laptop or Desktop--kind of critical.

Second, there's really no reason to have Windows 7 Pro for anything you listed. It'll just cost you more.

I doubt you can buy a new computer that won't do everything you want to do.

The last several computers I've bought for home I've just gone out and looked, got a feel for what was decent price-wise and felt reasonably well made and bought that. My own home laptop is actually my old work laptop (a Dell) I paid $150 for or something like that. My wife's laptop, now about 4 years old I paid $525 for (an HP) My shop PC was a bargain priced HP desktop from Staples right about a year ago. I just saw something similar for a great price when I was in there a week or so ago. All run Sketchup just fine for anything I've designed. Even my daughter's laptop, a $400 Acer from Walmart is pretty decent--my only regret there is had we waited another 2 months we could have gotten a nicer machine for that price or a similar machine for $300 as there was a price drop right after.

Problem wise, the Dell Laptop was almost completely replaced under warranty when work owned it. Even some case parts. The HP desktop lost a hard drive which is completely not HP's fault. The HP laptop had an issue with blue screens recently that I thought was a heat issue but it turned out to just be a driver that needed replacing. The Acer has been trouble free other than it won't wake itself for backups much to my frustration. We previously had an Dell home PC that had numerous parts replaced under warranty. Note that I think Dell is part-happy if they are sending out a tech for on-site support. They'd rather replace every possible part that could be causing the problem than send a tech out a second time.

I think 4GB RAM is plenty for what you've listed. Don't buy a more expensive machine just to get the RAM. Its usually a better deal to buy with less RAM, and buy your RAM separately, even if you throw away what's in it.

I don't know what you've got for an office suite now but Office Home and Student is a good buy when purchased with the machine unless you need Access and/or Outlook. Bite the bullet and upgrade as loading an ancient suite on a 64 bit machine is borrowed time. Yes its different and takes some getting used to. If you are using Open Office move to the newest Libre Office on the new machine.

Tim Morton
03-05-2012, 5:51 PM
Speaking slow.....buy an iPad3.

Dave Lehnert
03-05-2012, 5:53 PM
For what you will do with a computer any will do. Just pick your price. First two computers I over purchased because I did not know better. The lap top I am on now was a bargain ,opening price point unit. Found it does 100% what I want just like the expensive units.

I have owned 3 computers over the last 15 years. Still using two of them. All have been Gateway brand. Never a hardware issue with any of them. And no Software or bug issue that I would consider beyond normal.

Harry Hagan
03-05-2012, 6:28 PM
I started to relate my numerous and ridiculous experiences with Dell technical support but realized—they probably won’t believe a company could still be in business with such atrocious service.
226332

Myk Rian
03-05-2012, 6:37 PM
I really like the HP machines available at Staples.

A Dual core machine isn't exactly outdated. My system is a single core I built 8 years ago. Serves me fine.
Double the memory in the one you have, vacuum the dust out of it while it's open, and you'll think you have a new machine.

Adding memory MIGHT give your computer the hick-ups. The problem being Windows might think it's installed on a different machine. The memory addition changes the hardware signature.
Backup all you want to save, and re-install the OS. That alone will speed a computer up.

Larry Edgerton
03-05-2012, 6:52 PM
Myk, I'm still on Windows 98. Local geek looked at it and said it is not able to run Windows 7, and I am no longer able to update most things. My world keeps getting smaller.

http://www.productshippingcenter.com/applications/searchtools/configdetails.asp?Base=1882595

Here is one I was looking at to give an idea what I am after.

Matt, good comments, may have kept me from my normal solution. I started out looking at cheap and was up over a grand. Well, maybe I will need that........

Thanks, Larry

Myk Rian
03-05-2012, 7:04 PM
Your configuration looks pretty good, but I might make a couple changes. An I3 CPU, and Win 7 home Premium. The internal card reader is nice for transferring pictures from cameras.
You can always install Open Office for free. It does the same as MS Office.

Matt Meiser
03-05-2012, 7:15 PM
Check out these at Staples. The most expensive is $450.

http://www.staples.com/HP-Pavilion-p6-2100-Desktop-PC/product_444697
http://www.staples.com/HP-Pavilion-p2-1105-Desktop-PC/product_432730
http://www.staples.com/HP-Pavilion-p7-1226s-Desktop-PC/product_432775

Then use the money you saved on the PC and buy a huge LED monitor. I just got one of these for work:
http://www.staples.com/Acer-24-S242HL-bid-Widescreen-LED-Monitor/product_922460

Open Office (now Libre Office as mentioned above) vs. MS Office--depends on the situation. Home use yes pretty much. Work, not so much, especially more esoteric features of Excel, macros, integration with other products, etc. Switching between them if you use one at home and one at work--awful. There's just enough differences to be really annoying. Kind of like Apple iOS vs. Android. I would be happy with either, but when I had both it was annoying.

Larry Edgerton
03-05-2012, 8:58 PM
http://www.pcrush.com/product/Desktop-Computers/765159/Lenovo-Ideacentre-H420-1.0TB-Win-7HP?refid=1057&clnk=765159

Heres another one I was looking at. More what Myk was talking about.

Matt, we don't have any Staples up here, just OfficeMax, and they have already ticked me off.

Myk Rian
03-05-2012, 9:57 PM
The last few years I have been video recording our Senior Center stage productions. I then edit and produce a DVD that most of the actors (150 sold last year) purchase for themselves and family, etc.
After all, they can't see how the production turns out since they are in it.
Anyway, that system at pcrush looks like something I would consider for working with those huge HiDef files my camcorder makes. Nice system that should carry you through many years of good service.

By the way, some scenes from our productions are here. http://www.youtube.com/user/axlmyk
I am Production Manager and lighting tech. Lots of fun.

Jim O'Dell
03-05-2012, 10:00 PM
Larry, be mindful that your old programs may not run on the new machine. I have some that will, and some that won't. Win 7 Pro does get you the ability to run some older programs that the lesser Win 7's won't. If you will never use more than 4 gig of ram, go with the 32 bit version. If you want more, you have to go 64 bit.
I've had good luck assembling my last 4 computers. My last one was built with Win 98, and was upgraded to Win 2K and was at least 10 years old when I replaced it. Still in my closet as it still works. May use it in the shop one day. My wife's first one was identical to my first one, but slightly slower processor. It is still working and runs her old DOS music education programs that won't run under XP. much less Win 7. Her current one is an early dual core running XP. My last one built last spring came in about 1000 bucks, and that includes a 24" monitor. Only thing I kept out of the old computer was a newer power supply that it didn't need. But this may be more than you want to tackle.
I will say this, if I was doing the computer thing again with what I learned in the past year with the one I built, and the laptop I got last September, I'd opt for a more powerful laptop, and get a big monitor to plug into it for use at home. Jim.

Kevin W Johnson
03-05-2012, 10:19 PM
Myk,

His computer is an OLD dual CPU machine, not dual-core.... totally different decades. It's well past its prime.

Larry,

Matt is on the right on with his suggestions. You won't need Pro, 4gb memory is fine, a quad-core may be over-kill for you, but will pretty much future-proof you for the life of the machine, and its pretty much standard hardware nowadays. If you ever need service, it'll most likely be an experience no matter what brand it is (think offshore support), but AFAIK Dell is still good about making things right for a machine still under warranty. HP, I haven't dealt with them in sometime, so I can't really say. Just remember, that most any computer bought today, most likely will NOT last as long as the one you currently have. It's the major down side to build it cheaper, cheaper, cheaper manufacturing.

If you were close by, I'd simply build one for you. In my 20+ years with computers, I've never bought a pre-built desktop.

Kevin W Johnson
03-05-2012, 10:27 PM
Larry, be mindful that your old programs may not run on the new machine. I have some that will, and some that won't. Win 7 Pro does get you the ability to run some older programs that the lesser Win 7's won't. If you will never use more than 4 gig of ram, go with the 32 bit version. If you want more, you have to go 64 bit.




There's no cost savings with choosing 32bit over 64bit. 64bit would be future-proof, in the event he needs more than 4gb ram, as you cant do a simple upgrade from 32 bit to 64bit. But yes, he does need to be mindful that his some/most/all of his software may not run on Win 7.

Larry Browning
03-05-2012, 11:45 PM
Larry,
Like others have said, your requirements are very simple and just about any computer you get will more than meet your needs. You have stated quite clearly that you are not into the geeky stuff and just want something you can use and don't care about any wizz bang feature. I would respectfully suggest that you go down to Best Buy, or Staples, or even Wal-Mart , pick you one out, cause you like the color, or what ever else floats your boat, take it home, plug it in, and start using it. Any more it really is that simple. Computers have become almost like a commodity, they are all pretty much the same, they are all reliable, and just work. Don't loose any sleep over it, at the end of the day, what ever you buy will work great.

I have helped many people pick out new computers and the one thing I have learned about all this is that not everybody shares my love of computers, they don't care how much memory it has or how big the hard drive is, they just want to turn it on and use it. I believe you fall into that category, and that is why I suggested what I did. Computers really have come that far since you last shopped for one.

Todd Trebuna
03-06-2012, 5:17 AM
I have three laptops. 1 is a Toshiba, which is rock solid. I got it on clearance at Officemax, a few years ago. I just bought an HP from there also. It had a 50 dollar mail in rebate. The clerk gave us the 50 dollar mail in rebate off the top, because I refused to buy the extra protection, and then gave us the mail in rebate to boot. The final cost of the laptop (6Gb Ram, 75- GB HDD) was around 420. The other HP laptop is 6 years old, I've replaced the cord twice and the mousepad once. Other than that it works great and has the best audio of any laptop I've ever heard. My Toshiba is in a docking station when I want a bigger screen and real keyboard and mouse. I have two desktops. One is my youngest daughters and the other is our HTPC.
I've transitioned to high end screaming fast desktops to well packaged, affordable laptops, which can be replaced in 4-5 years. I also like to buy from brick and mortar stores, so I can complain to someone in person, when they fail. Good luck in your search.

Jerome Stanek
03-06-2012, 6:41 AM
If you have a legal copy of office you can use it on a new computer. also like stated you don't need windows7 pro.

Larry Edgerton
03-06-2012, 7:13 AM
The Windows Pro was recommended by my bookeeper to go with the new versions of Quickbooks. I will also be updating my estimating program as well as a new design program so it was my thought to go with Pro. Its not much extra anyway. I do use the Outlook Express but I am sure there is something similar today.

What you guys do have me thinking about is a Laptop. Always seemed to me though that everyone was always replacing them or they were in for service. I hate stuff that breaks. But a laptop with a big screen/keyboard/mouse at home may not be too bad, and in the event of a failure is sure easy to transport. Food for thought.....

Thanks, Larry

Jim Matthews
03-06-2012, 7:18 AM
I use an Asus Eee (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&N=-1&isNodeId=1&Description=asus+eee+pc) machine, it's very stable.
I now consider PCs and Laptops disposable, and backup regularly.

I anticipate my computers will fail every three years and catalog photos accordingly.

The Android powered (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834102014) tablets are a small surprise. They're light on storage, but work every time - right out of the box.
If you have a WiFi connection at home, you can surf the internet from your couch. Typing is odd, without a mechanical keyboard.

I see no reason to purchase locally, as these products really can't be repaired.
Buy cheap, make certain you have a right to return and use current anti-virus software.

The Android tablets seem to be oddly immune from computer viruses as they run on a Linux operating system.
(That can't last - hackers are relentless.)

Myk Rian
03-06-2012, 7:44 AM
Myk,
His computer is an OLD dual CPU machine, not dual-core.... totally different decades. It's well past its prime.

Kevin;
If you had read the entire thread before commenting, you would know I am aware of that.

Matt Meiser
03-06-2012, 7:48 AM
Quickbooks (http://quickbooks.intuit.com/proplus/) doesn't have any requirement for a particular version of Windows 7. Click the FAQ's tab and scroll down near the bottom to see requirements.

The two biggest things you might notice is improved Backup in Pro (mostly noticable if you have a network drive to back up to) and it does have XP mode to run older software. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/business/windows-version-comparison-chart.aspx (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/business/windows-version-comparison-chart.aspx)

Laptops have become very reliable. And at home you can always plug in a big monitor, keyboard, and mouse. But if you are like my wife and I, most home use moves from sitting at a desk in another room to sitting on the couch. I try NOT to do that with work--keeping the work in my office for psychological reasons. Though I have been known to spend a day working from the recliner.

Of all the laptops in our house my pick for best-built is the Dell Precision work owns. Next is the HP, then the Dell Inspiron and then the Acer.

If you do go with Dell the on site service is very handy, but don't fall for the marketing BS about next day service. Read the fine print--they actually are agreeing to send out parts to a tech next day--if you order by mid-afternoon. If they are in stock. Then the tech has up to a week or something like that. Typical service is a few days after the initial call.

Dan Hintz
03-06-2012, 8:37 AM
The suggestions so far have been pretty good. I'll second Matt's comments about the Pro version of Windows... the XP compatibility mode is very useful, particularly if you have a lot of software that won't run on 7 (and they are still cranking out new software that doesn't support higher than XP).

4GB is more than adequate for what you want to do. Practically any processor you choose on today's systems will be plenty adequate for many many years to come with your list of daily do's.

Consider that Win 8 will be out later this year, and their OSes have had increasingly shorter lifespans for support.

I plan on spending around $300 every 3-4 years for a new system, so I rarely spend much more than that. I keep my monitor(s) from system upgrade to upgrade, and occasionally I'll upgrade it when the bigger monitors come down in price (I splurged last year on an LED 24"er). Nothing in the house uses less than a 22" monitor, and to me that's the biggest return on investment in terms of usability.

Larry Browning
03-06-2012, 9:24 AM
+1 on what Dan says! I think you need to get the biggest LED monitor you can. Those vary quite a bit in quality and price. Look at getting a big 24 incher. The good ones will outlast 3 or 4 computers.
As for the laptop vs desk top: keep in mind that you are going to get more processing power for your money with a desktop and the parts are much more generic for a DT than the LT. I would say that unless you have a specific need to take your computer with you, I would stay with the desktop.

From what little I have read about Windows 8, I am a bit apprehensive about the new user interface. It sounds like it is radically different than previous versions. I have a feeling that the casual user (the one that just wants to use it and not understand it) is going to be frustrated by it. I mean, for goodness sakes, NO START BUTTON!!! Whatever will we do! And what the heck is a tile?

Myk Rian
03-06-2012, 9:31 AM
I mean, for goodness sakes, NO START BUTTON!!! Whatever will we do!
How will we shut it down without a start button?

Myk Rian
03-06-2012, 9:34 AM
Larry;

If you go with a desktop, consider having a local computer store build one. Take your needs to them, and get a price.
After all, Up-Nort Mitchigan needs the business.

Greg Portland
03-06-2012, 4:44 PM
From what little I have read about Windows 8, I am a bit apprehensive about the new user interface. It sounds like it is radically different than previous versions. I have a feeling that the casual user (the one that just wants to use it and not understand it) is going to be frustrated by it. I mean, for goodness sakes, NO START BUTTON!!! Whatever will we do! And what the heck is a tile?
First, a release date for Windows 8 has not been announced so you've got awhile until this is even an option. 2nd, a single button push gets you back to a more classic-view windows.

Dan Hintz
03-06-2012, 4:51 PM
First, a release date for Windows 8 has not been announced so you've got awhile until this is even an option. 2nd, a single button push gets you back to a more classic-view windows.

October is the current rumor... still a ways off if you need something soon, but in the lifespan of OSes these days, it's practically tomorrow ;) Honestly, I still feel like 7 is brand new...

Larry Edgerton
03-07-2012, 6:59 AM
Thank you one and all for your thoughts and suggestions. I have a little more confidence that I will make the proper choice now.

Myk, there is a local shop that will put one together, but is that really a reliable option? I know nothing about it but I see that there are quite a few on here that build their own, so I suppose that it does not require a factory. I'll check it out.

Last time I bought too much power and never really used it, so I will scale it back. I am prone to such things, I did build a 674 hp Miata after all......

Thanks, Larry

Chuck Wintle
03-07-2012, 7:31 AM
Thank you one and all for your thoughts and suggestions. I have a little more confidence that I will make the proper choice now.

Myk, there is a local shop that will put one together, but is that really a reliable option? I know nothing about it but I see that there are quite a few on here that build their own, so I suppose that it does not require a factory. I'll check it out.

Last time I bought too much power and never really used it, so I will scale it back. I am prone to such things, I did build a 674 hp Miata after all......

Thanks, Larry

the beauty of a local store is to have quick service when something goes wrong...and for you because you don't have the knowledge to repair them its an advantage vs. having to ship it back to dell or hp or whoever. often the price may be a little more locally since they don't have the same volume as others. and the local store should be able to give you exactly the power you need...and if you like linux as an operating system then this is free. i personally like linux mint as it has a nice interface and is similar to windows.

Matt Meiser
03-07-2012, 7:41 AM
I would never give a blanket recommendation for a local computer store. The problem with a local store though is you really have no idea what you are getting--are they really knowledgeable or just able to muddle through? Anyone with a few bucks who "knows computers" or at least thinks they do can open a computer store. Sure you can take it back to them, but are they stable? Will they still be there a year from now? Some will, some won't. Do some research on them before buying.

A good hint on their real skills might be how much of their business is other local business.

Pretty sure Quickbooks doesn't run on Linux.

Curt Harms
03-07-2012, 7:55 AM
Larry;

If you go with a desktop, consider having a local computer store build one. Take your needs to them, and get a price.
After all, Up-Nort Mitchigan needs the business.

That would be my vote as well. IMO you'd likely get better hardware for your $$ and no bloatware crap that needs to be removed. You might even get a disk so you can restore your box. Many or most systems don't come with restore disks these days. Some provide a way for you to create your own, others if your hard drive goes titters, I guess you buy new hard drive and a copy of Windows (or preferably from the manufacturer's viewpoint, a new machine). I've always built my own desktops so have no first hand experience with Dell, HP, etc. etc.

paul cottingham
03-07-2012, 10:51 AM
Thank you one and all for your thoughts and suggestions. I have a little more confidence that I will make the proper choice now.

Myk, there is a local shop that will put one together, but is that really a reliable option? I know nothing about it but I see that there are quite a few on here that build their own, so I suppose that it does not require a factory. I'll check it out.

Last time I bought too much power and never really used it, so I will scale it back. I am prone to such things, I did build a 674 hp Miata after all......

Thanks, Larry
The company I used to own built all computers from scratch, to spec. We carefully vetted all components, and have clients still using computer we built for them 7 years ago. Research your local companies carefully, some will be great, others will talk a great game, but.....
BTW, I second the Linux opinion, if you can get the right software for it. You need to learn an all new operating system, why not a free one, that is super reliable. And no Microsoft Tax!

Chuck Wintle
03-07-2012, 12:45 PM
The company I used to own built all computers from scratch, to spec. We carefully vetted all components, and have clients still using computer we built for them 7 years ago. Research your local companies carefully, some will be great, others will talk a great game, but.....
BTW, I second the Linux opinion, if you can get the right software for it. You need to learn an all new operating system, why not a free one, that is super reliable. And no Microsoft Tax!

in fact it is not hard to build a computer...i have ordered parts online many times to do this...i like asus mb's, intel cpu's and corsiar memory, etc....maybe you know someone who can help you place an order.

Larry Browning
03-07-2012, 1:24 PM
I think you guys need to reread Larry's original post. Especially the part about not knowing much about computers and having no desire to learn about them. He wants something he can turn on and start using. Building his own and Linux do not quite fit his requirements.... Seems to me he would much rather be in the shop making sawdust.
I'm just sayin.......

Myk Rian
03-07-2012, 2:23 PM
I think you guys need to reread Larry's original post. Especially the part about not knowing much about computers and having no desire to learn about them. He wants something he can turn on and start using. Building his own and Linux do not quite fit his requirements.... Seems to me he would much rather be in the shop making sawdust.
I'm just sayin.......
Nobody is saying to build his own, and I agree Linux is not for the average user. I've been building and using machines since the early 70s, and still haven't figured Linux out.

The advantages of having a local shop build one are local service, and if the store does close down, the machine is built with generic parts that anybody can fix.
Dell, Acer, and a slew of others use proprietary parts and cases. A PITA to replace prats.

Bruce Page
03-07-2012, 3:12 PM
Myk, there is a local shop that will put one together, but is that really a reliable option? I know nothing about it but I see that there are quite a few on here that build their own, so I suppose that it does not require a factory. I'll check it out.
Thanks, Larry

Larry, my last two computers have come from a local computer shop. I didn’t order anything extreme, just their middle of the road machines. They are the best computers I have owned. What is also nice is if I do have a problem they are quick to help. When this current machine gets too dated I will be buying from them again.

paul cottingham
03-07-2012, 3:23 PM
Anyone who says Linux is hard to use has never used it. It is just as easy and as hard as windows, for the average end user. I'm just saying'

Chuck Wintle
03-07-2012, 5:13 PM
I think you guys need to reread Larry's original post. Especially the part about not knowing much about computers and having no desire to learn about them. He wants something he can turn on and start using. Building his own and Linux do not quite fit his requirements.... Seems to me he would much rather be in the shop making sawdust.
I'm just sayin.......

Larry,

not saying he should build his own computer or use linux, which is not that daunting to use, but sometimes one must look a little beyond the usual horizons. Really its not that hard to do.

Larry Edgerton
03-07-2012, 8:07 PM
I am getting a quote from a local company that has been in the business about 20 years. I like the idea of local service and non-proprietary parts. They also are a internet provider, so maybe I can get all in one place.

Ya, me build a computer.....

Thats funny now, I don't care who you are........

Larry

Curt Harms
03-08-2012, 8:16 AM
Anyone who says Linux is hard to use has never used it. It is just as easy and as hard as windows, for the average end user. I'm just saying'

Linux is pretty easy, maybe easier than Windows, probably closer to osX but with some yabbuts. One is hardware; many desktops are plug 'n' play, some ATI/AMD graphics adapters are PITAs, some notebooks are impractical for Linux. The second is mindset. "What do you mean it doesn't have a registry?" "Where's the .exe file?" "Why aren't you running an anti-virus program?" "How often do I have to defrag?" "Where can I find a driver for x piece of hardware?"

Myk Rian
03-08-2012, 8:28 AM
Anyone who says Linux is hard to use has never used it. It is just as easy and as hard as windows, for the average end user. I'm just saying'
Bunch of BS. Re-read my previous post #38
It is NOT for the average home user.

Harry Hagan
03-08-2012, 9:21 AM
I am getting a quote from a local company that has been in the business about 20 years. I like the idea of local service and non-proprietary parts. They also are a internet provider, so maybe I can get all in one place.

Ya, me build a computer.....

Thats funny now, I don't care who you are........

Larry

There is absolutely no reason not to go with a local builder IF they’re honest, competent, and have kept up-to-speed on current and coming technology. They should be willing to sit down and discuss your current requirements and also make sure you are aware of the new “stuff” that might be of interest and benefit to you. My definition of Proprietary Equipment: "We have you in our evil clutches and you are at our mercy."

Art Mulder
03-08-2012, 10:16 AM
Anyone who says Linux is hard to use has never used it. It is just as easy and as hard as windows, for the average end user. I'm just saying'


Bunch of BS. Re-read my previous post #38
It is NOT for the average home user.

I agree with Paul, and I mostly agree with Myk.

And that is because deciding whether or not it is suited to the average home user is NOT about whether or not it is hard. Rather it is about whether or not it is familiar to a majority of people.

I have a Computer Science Bachelor's and Master's degree. I've been using Unix since 1987, and Linux since 1998 in my career.
But when I started a new job that involved supporting Windows, it was HARD because I didn't know enough about it. It was unfamiliar. (It also has an incredibly stupid design and horrible security, but that is another matter.) Ask your average user to edit the registry and see if they can do it. Ask your average user to start mucking about with DLL files and see if they can do it. Ask your average user to find where their email is stored on disk and they probably don't know. (Heck I still bump into people who confuse the Monitor with the Computer.) BUT, and this is the big one, every town has umpteen stores with geeks in them who might be able to help you, and everyone has friends who use Windows, and so on.

Linux just doesn't have that market penetration. I fully believe that modern Linux (Ubuntu is my favourite for "it just works" in the Linux world) is just as hard as Windows. But it still is less familiar.

...art

ps: and don't ask me for advice, Larry, I bought my wife a Mac precisely because it is familiar to her and far simpler than Windows, and I have since bought myself an iMac also at home also. And I still think Windows is annoying and stupid.

Don Buck
03-08-2012, 10:39 AM
I've heard good things about Vision Computers in Georgia. Customer support is supposed to be top notch and USA based. Check out their web site: http://www.visioncomputers.com

Chuck Wintle
03-08-2012, 2:49 PM
while its true linux does not have the same market share as windows or mac i have found the recent linux releases to be very usable and user friendly...it took a while to get used to it but once past that it is not bad.

paul cottingham
03-08-2012, 4:10 PM
Yep. And for the record, I hate the new interface in Ubuntu almost as much as I hate vista or windows 7.

Larry Edgerton
03-08-2012, 5:59 PM
The Linux/Windows debate is closed. Actually I would not mind trying Linux, kind of intrigues me but......

I have taught my wife my secret codes to figure out my billing so I don't have to do it any more, and she uses Windows 7 Pro and Quickbooks every day at her real job. So on weekends when she catches up on my junk, she wants 7.

I let her think she is the boss........

Larry

Curt Harms
03-09-2012, 7:36 AM
Yep. And for the record, I hate the new interface in Ubuntu almost as much as I hate vista or windows 7.

That's all? Spend a few minutes on Ubuntuforums.org. You'd think Unity is what will really bring about the end of days :p. Larry, if you want to tinker and still have a working Windows box, there are ways to run Linux (and yes, Ubuntu is excellent for the non-initiated, as is Linux Mint, an Ubuntu spinoff) either from a CD/DVD or from a USB flash drive. As long as you don't choose "install", it will not touch your hard drive or windows install. Wired networking will probably work from the 'Live session' wireless may or may not. For anyone considering a new machine and wanting to tinker with Linux, going all Intel is a safe choice. Intel graphics, Intel networking "just work" for the most part. I have non-Intel and most things 'just work' but things that don't can send you in search of your largest hammer.

Chuck Wintle
03-09-2012, 8:47 AM
That's all? Spend a few minutes on Ubuntuforums.org. You'd think Unity is what will really bring about the end of days :p. Larry, if you want to tinker and still have a working Windows box, there are ways to run Linux (and yes, Ubuntu is excellent for the non-initiated, as is Linux Mint, an Ubuntu spinoff) either from a CD/DVD or from a USB flash drive. As long as you don't choose "install", it will not touch your hard drive or windows install. Wired networking will probably work from the 'Live session' wireless may or may not. For anyone considering a new machine and wanting to tinker with Linux, going all Intel is a safe choice. Intel graphics, Intel networking "just work" for the most part. I have non-Intel and most things 'just work' but things that don't can send you in search of your largest hammer.

my experience with live versions of linux is that wired networking works.

Myk Rian
03-09-2012, 12:54 PM
The Linux/Windows debate is closed.
My SisInLaw had a computer made up in Cheboygan. Don't remember the store, but they made a good machine.

Larry Edgerton
03-10-2012, 7:21 AM
I got my quote. It was twice as much for a little less. That alone I do not mind, but I didn't like the attitude. The salesman did not seem to know his stuff, and the owner was condecending. I did stop in after work[contractor] but I don't figure how I am dressed affects how my money spends. They lost a customer.

Myk there are two in Cheboygan, I'll call them today and check it out.

Larry

Curt Harms
03-10-2012, 7:59 AM
my experience with live versions of linux is that wired networking works.

That's my experience as well though there is one new oddball ethernet chipset which hasn't made it into the kernel yet. Quite a few wireless networking chipsets are supported out of the box as well, if they've been in the retail stream for a year or so ..... unless they're from Broadcom :rolleyes:.

Myk Rian
03-10-2012, 9:02 AM
This thread is about buying a new computer. Not Linux.

Chuck Wintle
03-10-2012, 10:07 AM
I got my quote. It was twice as much for a little less. That alone I do not mind, but I didn't like the attitude. The salesman did not seem to know his stuff, and the owner was condecending. I did stop in after work[contractor] but I don't figure how I am dressed affects how my money spends. They lost a customer.

Myk there are two in Cheboygan, I'll call them today and check it out.

Larry

by any chance did they provide an itemized list of components with the price? If yes then shopping online will save a lot of money

Chuck Wintle
03-10-2012, 10:08 AM
This thread is about buying a new computer. Not Linux.

yes but linux is always an option for an OS.

Myk Rian
03-10-2012, 3:16 PM
by any chance did they provide an itemized list of components with the price? If yes then shopping online will save a lot of money
It may save money, but he isn't up to putting those parts together.

Myk Rian
03-10-2012, 4:11 PM
yes but linux is always an option for an OS.

And Linux talk is hijacking the thread.

Curt Harms
03-11-2012, 8:22 AM
And Linux talk is hijacking the thread.

Myk is right. Larry, any luck with any other local places? I don't have any experience with Dell, HP etc. desktops, I've never owned one, always rolled my own from PC-XTs on. The only advice I remember is if you want durability consider a "business class" machine, not a "consumer grade" machine.