Marking tools?

[Mike Holbrook]

I am in the marked for two marking tools. I have combination & engineers squares, marking knives, awls, sliding bevels... I am looking for something to mark dovetails and something to mark mortises and tenons. Somehow what I had has grown legs. I hope to find out what others have learned to like to use for this work and why.

For M&Ts I like the Veritas Wheel Marking Gauges. I am not sure which one. They have one with two posts even! Do I need a scale on it, or will I mostly be copying? How about two posts or maybe just two wheels on one post?

I have Kinsports video on making dovetails. Of course he uses a clear plastic marking gauge that is special made. Do I need to be able to mark different slopes? Veritas makes similar metal markers in 1:6 (softwood) & 1:8 (hardwood) & 14 degrees (for thin stock?).

[John Coloccia]

You definitely don't need a scale on it, and I question how valuable the two wheel ones are. I guess if you have a need for multiple settings, but in that case I'd probably just buy multiple gauges. I like keeping thing simple. As far as marking the angle, these are too simple to make to justify buying one. I bought some a while back and I never use them...which makes me feel even dumber for having bought it. Best would be just to eyeball the angles. Makes for a more interesting look when everything's not exactly perfectly the same anyhow, but after a bit you'll be surprised just how repeatably you saw the same angle.

Having the lines and waste at first is useful for your own situational awareness, but you don't need a marking gauge for that....just some scribbles with a pencil will do. If you really want a gauge, it need be no more complex than a small, straight piece of wood (maybe 1/2" wide by 1 1/2" long by 3/16" thick) with a little "fence" glued onto it at the proper slope. The fence goes up against the edge of the wood, and you mark along the edge. If you want to get more fancy, make the fence 1 1/2" long and 1/2" thick. Then the little fence will act as your 90 degree perpendicular marker for the straight edge of the cut. Now put another angled piece on the other side, and you have a right and left marker that took 5 minutes to make.

[Justin Green]

I made a few dovetail gauges from some scrap 1/8" x 1.5" angle aluminum that I had. A foot of that stuff is enough to make half a dozen marking gauges (dovetails, box joints, etc.) I just ground the sides to the angle I wanted on the grinder, then polished them up. I've been wanting to buy a set of stamps so I could stamp the angles... one of those projects I'll get around to eventually.

[Andrae Covington]

I have the LV Micro-Adjust Gauge, without graduations. In retrospect, I should have just bought the standard one, as I never use the micro-adjust feature, but YMMV. Certainly I don't miss the graduations.

I've also purchased their Dual Marking Gauge with two rods for mortise and tenons, but I haven't used it yet. I have previously used the traditional rosewood-and-brass style with the little pins. I hated it; but again, that's just me.

I have a couple dovetail squares by Marples that I bought from TFWW. They're about $10 each and work fine. One is 1:6, the other 1:8. If I were to choose some other angle, I would probably just make one.

[Chris Griggs]

I have the standard LV gauge (with no micro adjust) and imperial markings. I quite like it, but it is prone to slipping a bit so you'll want to rough up the rod with a bit of sandpaper. As others have said I find the graduations to be fairly useless. If I need a specific distance it's more accurate to hold the end of a ruler up against the fence and gauge my distance on the ruler. I like having the angle markers - I have the pack that comes with the two little metal one 1:8 and 1:6. I like having both, not for hardwood vs softwood, but depneding on how the angle looks in relation to the thickness of board/depth of tails. Mine aren't full saddle squares though, they just kinda hook on the end of the board so I still need to use a try square to carry my line all the way across the end grain. I will probably by a pair of saddle squares some day because I'm lazy. Also I find 1:6 plenty steep enough for thin stock and have no desire for the 14 degree, but if you like the look of steeper slope dovetails then by all means get the 14 degree too.

Oh yeah one more thing. I think the two double one would be handy for marking mortises and would like to have it someday, but it's certainly not a necessity so if money is a consideration I'd wait on that.

[Mike Henderson]

I have the LV marking gauges and the Titemark gauges. I use the micro adjust all the time and highly recommend it.

For marking dovetails, you can make a gauge fairly easily. If you want to buy one, LV sells a good one.

Mike

[Mike Holbrook]

Good input guys thanks!

I wonder if the micro adjuster would help prevent the gauge from slipping, seems like it would have to just to function.

I just found out Highland Woodworking has a class on sharpening hand saws tomorrow, so I will have the opportunity to check some of these items out before & after class.

[Andrae Covington]

...I wonder if the micro adjuster would help prevent the gauge from slipping, seems like it would have to just to function...

Although I don't use the micro-adjust, I do tighten down the brass ring in addition to the smaller set screw, just to make sure it stays in place. Maybe that's worth a few extra bucks to know it's not going to slip.

[lowell holmes]

I made to wooden dovetail tools like Rob Cosman's. I've had them for years. IMO, they are the best I've used. I think LN has them in metal.

IMO, they are the best I've used.

[Bill Haumann]

I find the titemark very accurate and easy to use, you can get both fixed width and adjustable width mortise/tenon wheels. For a dovetail marker, Paul Sellers shows how to make one from wood in his blog, and I think on YouTube as well.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I've used several of the other makes, bought I purchased the Titemark. As Bill has already said, it is very accurate and easy to use. The adjustment feature works great. The Titemark is a bit more cash outlay, but in years to come, you won't think of the extra cost as it is that good.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I have LV gauges w/o micro adjust - I don't know if I'm supposed to or not, but I adjust "micro adjust" them the same way I micro-adjust everything else - small hammer taps in the appropriate place, or tapping things against the bench . . . .

[Mike Holbrook]

Made it to Higgland Woodworking today for the saw sharpening class. Chris Black did the class and he just happens to make dovetail markers. He makes them like the ones Kingsport uses in his video. They are clear plastic, allowing the user to see through them to marks below. I picked up a set.

I also picked up the Veritas marking gage. I got one with the micro adjuster but no graduations.

[Jim Koepke]

They are clear plastic, allowing the user to see through them to marks below. I picked up a set.

I also picked up the Veritas marking gage. I got one with the micro adjuster but no graduations.

My response is after the fact. What you have bought are good useable tools.

I have both the Veritas marking gage and the Titemark gauge. I tend to use the Titemark as my go to marking gauge. While using it today to set a few different marks I even had thoughts of buying a second one. I already have more marking gauges than I use, but the Titemark is good enough to have me thinking about selling off my others.

One that I would not sell is my mortise marking gauge. Even with pins I like that it can be set exactly to the chisel for chopping a mortise.



I have a couple dovetail squares by Marples that I bought from TFWW. They're about $10 each and work fine. One is 1:6, the other 1:8. If I were to choose some other angle, I would probably just make one.

Wow, I have the same set bought from a lumber yard in Berkeley, CA. I use them all the time for laying out dovetails.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

Made it to Higgland Woodworking today for the saw sharpening class. Chris Black did the class and he just happens to make dovetail markers. He makes them like the ones Kingsport uses in his video. They are clear plastic, allowing the user to see through them to marks below. I picked up a set.

I also picked up the Veritas marking gage. I got one with the micro adjuster but no graduations.

Cool - sounds like you had a good day.

BTW, did you get your HNT Gordon blades. How do they seem?

[Mike Holbrook]

Chris,
I bought one of the HNT Gordon blades. I believe there is still one there. They wanted about $90 each for them, so I left the second for now, at least until I make sure I need another. The length is perfect for the planes I made, a little under 4". Maybe you can see in the picture that 1/2 inch less was a little too short.

I have not used the HNT yet but will soon. Until I have a wedge made to fit that blade I would not be giving it a fair go.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16891057@N05/6955690313/in/photostream/lightbox/

[Chris Griggs]

Chris,
They wanted about $90 each for them


For that price I assume that's the HSS blade, not the Carbon steel one, correct? Craftmans studio has both and the HSS is about that price but the regular tool steel one is like $50.

The planes are coming along nicely. I like your wedge for the jointer. BTW how long were the blades that came with the kits? Were they that much shorter?

[steven c newman]

226290Would this be a "marking guage" as well. I've had this one for a while, and it was a "hand-me-down" to boot.

[Mike Holbrook]

Chris,
Yes, according to the label for my blade it is a "HSS Blade", both the blades Highland had were the same. They had some other thinner Gordon blade too, maybe it works with his planes with the more Norse type blade holding system?

Actually I just ended up buying all Steve's left over stock IPE board with about 11 mouths, for adjustable mouths. Dozen blanks for wedges. Dozen various sized blades from about 3 to 3 1/2 inches. I only had 2-3 blades that were close to 3 1/2 inches, the rest are 3-3 1/4 inches. I know it does not sound like much but, if there is only 1/2 inch or less plane iron above the plane body it is hard to make a wedge to fit, leaving it enough shorter than the blade so that the blade can be hit without hitting the wedge. Steve may have made his planes thinner.

When I tried to place an order for a couple plane kits, Steve was getting out of making planes and just taking on custom CNC jobs, although he still had his plane web site up. I worked out one last plane deal with him by working it like a CNC custom job. I bought some 8/4 Purple Heart from Steve's local wood supplier which they delivered to him. Steve used his CNC router to rout the reliefs for the halves of four planes in the boards. He had some problems routing the totes for my planes in some Ash or Maple he had, so he ended up just making the totes from the extra purple heart. Steve offered to just send me all his remaining plane parts if I would do several planes. He was able to make halves for: 26" jointer, 15 1/2" jack, two 7 1/2" smoothers (one is higher bed angle) from the wood I sent, plus three totes. All these planes are about 1 3/4 inches thick, requiring the same blade size, except the higher angle smoother may get away with a slightly shorter blade.

I was not sure how much wood I would need to sand off the bottoms & tops of each plane to get them flat so I was not sure exactly how long the blades would need to be. I have been giving that long jointer a good long rest to see if the larger piece of wood would twist cup, bow....requiring more wood to be removed, thus reducing the required blade length. I could have just trimmed 3/8 inch or so off the height of each plane but I wanted to leave them as thick as possible increasing the number of times they can be flattened and their total life expectancy. Plus there was the issue of the thickness of the adjustable mouths and recesses for the totes...Now that I have all the bodies flat, top & bottom, I am not eager to trim wood off again & flatten again. Thus my extended dilemma regarding fitting blades & wedges. I imagine these issues are why Steve had so many plane blades of different lengths but all within 1/2 inch of the same size.

Steve,
That appears to be a wooden marking gauge but it is hard to tell from the picture. The marking gauges we were discussing above are made of metal components that slide up & down a metal instead of wooden bar. Most of the metal gauges use a round cutting wheel that works a little like a pizza slicer. It is easier to make a more compact, but still tougher gauge from metal, which is probably why a great many people have moved to the newer "wheel" gauges.

[Jerome Hanby]

I bought a pair of dovetail squares from Harbor Freight year ago, Think one was 1:8 the other 1:6. Have never opened them but seems like kind of a no brainer, even if they weren't dead on perfect, as long as you always used them to mark the dovetails, I would think they would work. I'm sure I didn't pay more than a few bucks for them... Not as convenient as one of those saddle type dovetail markers, I bet.

[John Coloccia]

The problem with cheap ones, or generally with ones that aren't dead square, is that they will throw off the straight part of the line (either across the board or down the board, depending if you cut tails or pins first). If they're out and you want that straight line too, you can use them to mark the angled part, and then come back with a square to draw the straight line. Oddly enough, I've seen pricier ones that are out of square too.

[Mike Holbrook]

I see Lee Valley is offering a digital sliding bevel. I think it is the same one I saw at Highland Woodworking the other day. I was thinking about buying one for those times when I want to set s specific angle. Then I found the angle marking tool Veritas makes specifically to work with sliding bevels. A 3 x 7" card with angles and a ruler etched in the surface. It even has the common dovetail and polygon angles marked on it. I was a little worried about how accurate the digital device might be but I imagine the Veritas bevel setting device is very accurate.. Has anyone used either one of these devices and have comments to offer?

Chris,
I like that wedge too. It works even better than I hoped. The little grooves at the top are very handy when it comes time to pull it out, or even place it. It also gives a wooden plane mallet just enough purchase to make it easy to tap it loose. I was a little worried about the edges chipping but so far no problems using the Japanese plane mallet on it. I did round the edges of the grooves on the side a little more, where I strike it with the mallet. It was my solution to having to make such a short wedge to fit the short iron. Those totes are great too, the most comfortable design I have tried. I guess Steve came up with an original shape there.

[Jim Neeley]

I have Tite-Mark and Rob Cosman's "standard" marking gauges and both are good. For marking mortises & tenons I prefer Rob's because they provide micro-adjust on the width of the mortise so, adjusting to the width of your chisel you can use it for both mortise and tenon. It's no big thing with the mortise since the chisel defines the far side but it ensures the tenon precisely matches the mortise.

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.