Z Saw King Rip Kataba For Resawing?

[Aaron Rappaport]

Has anyone tried the King Rip 330 mm Kataba saw that tashiro hardware sells (see 2/3 of the way down the page at http://www.tashirohardware.com/Tashiros_Hardware_LLC/saw_blades.html ) and if so would it work for resawing? I know that the best setup for this is a frame saw and a very low tpi blade. But, you have to make both of those yourself. If the King Rip blade worked, it'd be mighty tempting for its $17 price.

[David Weaver]

I have a kataba that size. I can't remember if it's Z, but it doesn't matter because all of the larger machine made saws like that (that I have seen, and that are cheap) have big aggressive teeth and a fair amount of set (compared to the smaller saws that have little set).

I don't think that I would want to resaw with it. I've used mine to cut 8/4 hardwood (I vividly remember a rip in white oak), and I was left with the feeling in my hands like I'd just run a chainsaw for two hours. In hardwoods, there's a lot of grab, not much weight and a lot of vibration on your hands.

I haven't yet found a good way to resaw by hand for one person. The best so far is a very coarse tooth carpenter's saw for big wood, and finer teeth if the wood is hard and small (like cabinet size pieces). I guess good would be opinion. I don't feel like spending 10 minutes to go through a piece of hardwood that's 4 inches wide and 18 inches long in 10-15 heart pounding minutes is good, but it does work.

[Jon Toebbe]

It would be the equivalent of resawing with a big coarse western rip saw -- possible, but far from ideal. As for the chattering and hand vibration, I found it makes an enormous difference to saw "downhill." Ripping from above the work with a Japanese saw is like planing against the grain. You pull up chips, it leaves a ragged hole instead of a smooth kerf, and it vibrates like a chainsaw. Working from the other direction is much easier. I put the work on a bench and sit on a low stool most of the time -- lazy man's ripping.

[Aaron Rappaport]

Yes, I was wondering about the vibration too. When I rip with my 240 mm Lowe's/Vaughan/Z ryoba I sometimes get a lot of vibration - ameliorated as Jon noted by sawing downhill. In addition to the obvious advantages of pulling the teeth with the grain instead of against it, I think sawing downhill may just engage more teeth, thus making the vibrations of the individual teeth cancel out more - but I'm not sure. Jon, what thickness stock are you ripping and with what length of kataba/ryoba?

I've also thought about taking a diamond file to the tips of the rip teeth and making the rake non-negative. The factory rake is negative, which is probably where a lot of the roughness and grab that David noted are coming from.

Failing that, I may need to recruit my wife to help with occasional two person ripping ...

[David Weaver]

Don't file the tooth tips. You need that very aggressive rake because you don't get the benefit of leaning your weight into a high hang-angle saw like you would do with a western saw. If you take the aggression out of the teeth, it will feel slippery in the cut and cut very slowly.

Jon is correct that reorienting yourself so that you're making the teeth "pull the straws" of wood off instead of smashing down into them will make the cut a lot smoother. I just can't ever get that comfortable to do several long rips like that.

[Aaron Rappaport]

David, have you tried ripping thick softwoods with your big kataba? Does it work better in them than in white oak?

[Jon Toebbe]

"Pulling the straws" -- yes, that's exactly it. I agree with David, Aaron: don't files down those teeth. When they're sawing the right way that grabbiness is what makes the saw so fast. I work mostly in softwoods and poplar, so ymmv with dry hardwoods, but I've found the ~270mm rip kataba Z-Saw makes to be a dandy tenon saw. I use the 300mm ("King" rip saw in Tashiro's catalog) in 4/4 to 8/4 stock when I need to rip out project parts for a longer board. When working downhill, I find the cut to be fast, controllable, and clean enough to go straight to a jointer plane. With longer rips (rare, since most of my projects are pretty small scale), I end up with the board running over my shoulder supported by a sawhorse or two. It's pretty easy to feed the board into my saw while I perch on a nice, low stool so I'm not stooping.

[Aaron Rappaport]

Thanks Jon, that what I was looking for, both about the saw itself and the position to use while making long rips. I am looking for something that will - ideally - be able to rip through 16/4 pine stock - the motivation being to have a hand tool way to make the 1/2" or 3/8" thick pieces required for box or drawer sides and internal dividers. Have you ever tried a rip in anything that was 3 1/2" thick?

One can, of course, also hand plane down 4/4 stock (i.e. 3/4" thick) to get thin pieces, or edge laminate many pieces ripped out of 8/4 stock. Just looking for a more convenient way, as the time savings seem considerable. After David's report that he really hadn't found a good way to resaw by hand, I'm also rethinking doing this using power tools. The typical ones (14" band saw plus dust control plus air filter) won't work in my shop in the short term because I can't afford them. On the other hand, buying a cheapo 9" band saw and using it outdoors when the weather is nice and the mosquitoes are dormant or at least "at a low roar", and so stocking up on thin stock, might not be a bad idea. I guess I should think also about using a (powered) hand planer.

[Rob Fisher]

Cut down 3.5" stock will still most likely need to be planed. Why not just plane 4/4 stock and skip the ripping? Seems it would be faster.

[Aaron Rappaport]

Cut down 3.5" stock will still most likely need to be planed. Why not just plane 4/4 stock and skip the ripping? Seems it would be faster.

Well, I've been wondering about that but haven't actually timed myself taking a 4/4 board down to 1/2 or even 1/4 inch thick. For small boards, the rough planing to reduce thickness does go almost as fast - or faster - for me than the fine planing to get them truly flat and to dimension. That said, it'd be nice to avoid the mountain of shavings and the waste of wood that goes along with planing to change thickness by a lot. Nice doesn't mean necessary though, as you correctly point out.