Do I really need a dowel plate?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I'm slowly progressing on a bench, and starting to think about joining things together . . . the plan is to drawbore the stretchers and legs. I don't know if I'll drawbore the legs to the top.

The legs and stretchers are kiln dried poplar. (the top is maple) I've got a fair amount of very dry red oak, it looks like I should be able to rive a fair amount of pegs from those pieces, at least three times what I'm thinking I'll need.

I'm wondering though, if I really need to go through buying or making a dowel plate for this - I figure it might not look as nice, but it seems like I should be able to split the pegs, and then shaving them down to close enough to round to work for a bench, tapering the ends somewhat. I figure a good test might just be to drill a hole in one of the leg offcuts and see how it goes, but the poplar is much more giving than the oak, so I'm feeling like some small imperfections would just go.

I'm thinking a dowel plate would be a nice thing to have in the future, particularly for drawboring in harder woods, but do you think I can get away with out it for now, as least for drawboring the poplar to poplar?

Sorry if this is a dumb question - I don't know much about drawboring at all. I guess I should read up before I ask questions. I'll start doing that shortly.

[Zach Dillinger]

You certainly don't need one. You can get a peg round enough to do the job. Once you drive it in you'll never know the difference anyway. Plus, some people say that the faceted tapered dowels hold better than one that is perfectly round. I have a shop-made dowel plate but rarely use it.

[Jim Koepke]

Most of the videos I have seen on draw boring look like the pegs have been whittled down with a pocket knife.

Some even leave the exposed end square and pare the end of the hole square. Adding a little pizzaz to the finished item.

Before I even knew about draw boring some of my dowels were made using a beading blade plane.

Riving out the pins and then smoothing them to size with a block plane should work fine. Put a bit of taper on them to get throught the offset holes and things should be fine.

Your comment:


I figure a good test might just be to drill a hole in one of the leg offcuts and see how it goes, but the poplar is much more giving than the oak, so I'm feeling like some small imperfections would just go.

Sounds like the right idea. You might even want to try a few practice joints just to get the feel of it.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I've got one, and it's a PITA to use.

Unless I get really straight grain stock, the hand made dowels are circular cross sections but not cylinders.
It's great for resizing hardwood dowel stock, but I haven't had any success making my own.

As JK mentioned above, splitting out a straight stick and whittling has been just as effective.

The dowel plate does work well for holding down shop plans (until I cover them in shavings).

[Paul Saffold]

I've got one I made and use it. It's easier if you start with a rived peg close to desired size &/or, go down to your final size in small increments.

[Bill Haumann]

I have a dowel plate and it's fun, but I don't think perfectly round pegs are necessary at all. In fact, my recollection of those that do a lot of drawbored joints is that round is not preferred, and octagonal or even square is fine.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

When I did my bench I turned my pegs on the lathe out of straight grained stock. NOT the way to do it. But think most any way you get to straight grained dowel-ish-with-tapered-point-objects you will be ok. All 24 of mine worked well. But make some extras just in case!

Pegs sized by craftsman 3/8" wrench :).
225939

I love the sound of pegs driving home!
225940

Look ma, no glue (seriously, no glue for any of the draw bored tenons on my bench)!
225941

I do recommend you do a trial joint before you practice on your bench :).
Salem

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

With joints this large, do you drill all the way through the leg? My instinct is that if a peg broke, it'd allow me to drive the remnants out the back.

I'll definitely be doing some trial joints - I ended up making the legs way too long, so I've got leg-offcuts beg enough to do another stretcher tenon joint in each of them.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

My legs are ~6x4 oak and drawbored joints are used on both the long and short stretchers. After doing a test joint with some 8/4 stock I did not think the dowels needed to even be 4" long (much less 6" long). I was amazed at how the pegs closed the gap in the shoulders of the test joint. That experiment showed me that the shoulders need to be dead square because the pegs will close the joint and the angle of the shoulder will be the angle of the joining pieces. I was particularly careful on the long stretchers because any angular error here is magnified by distance.

I did make sure the length of the taper was less then the depth of the hole beyond the tenon. This way the dowel is full thickness on both sides of the tenon. If they fail some day I should still be able to drill them out and pin them again (this time with riven stock :)). They sure haven't budged yet though.

Good luck!
Salem

[george wilson]

Your dowel holes MUST have been offset to some degree to have closed the gap like that. Just putting in dowels alone does not guarantee that they will suck the tenon in tighter.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Yes of course offset. And the gap in my test joint was not really that bad. But it was not what I would call a "nice" looking shoulder. It probably had a 1/16" gap or so and this was totally squashed by the offset of the pegs. I did much better on my bench because I took more care on the shoulders after seeing that without glue/clamps there is no wiggle room for adjusting square at the time of assembly. The error in your shoulder angle is exactly the final error in your assembly.
Salem

[Salem Ganzhorn]

One more thought: Make sure you use drawbore pins: http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/drawBoring/drawBoring4.asp
You can test the joint for accuracy with them and it also slightly eases the hole in the tenon making the assembly go smoothly.
Salem

[george wilson]

I gave Roy Underhill a drawbore about 12" long. I don't know why I bought such a monster! Not in my line of work at that time!

[Trevor Walsh]

I made one with 1/4" mild steel plate, with a variety of holes, it's mounted in a wooden block with larger holes under the openings so the pegs can fall out. I think it's well worth the time. The resulting pegs are straight grain and faster than whittling the whole peg. I use ash or oak for pegs, x-cut a board for the peg length and split out peg blanks with a wide chisel/slick, chamfer the ends heavily then bash 'em through.

[paul cottingham]

I bought the lie-Nielsen one, and never regretted it. Use it quite a bit.

[Russell Sansom]

I've done hundreds of draw bore MT joints over the years and never felt the need for a draw bore pin, so I'd consider them a luxury...since I don't own one :). It helps to practice a few times. The offset can vary considerably with the species and dimensions of the wood, so it helps to find the range before blowing out a tenon on a serious piece of work.
On the very rare occasion I've done "blind" dowels, but they're simpler to do if they go all the way through. Along with a leading taper, I usually put a moderate "flat" on the leading tip...like the tip of a clarinet, then pound the dowel far enough through that it can be cut off.

Sometimes the hole on the show face doesn't look good with a faceted dowel --- depending on the piece, of course. I wouldn't put faceted dowels into a dining room table, for instance. Come to think of it, the last serious table I did, I put in "blind" dowels from the inside so there are no dowels showing on the outside. These take some planning. If they bottom out before they've drawn the joint tight, it can be a mess to get it back out. If they don't go far enough after going around the bend, then they might not have enough purchase on the other side of the tenon.
Wow! I don't even think about all this any more, but when it's spelled out it sounds complicated.

[Zach Dillinger]

Wow! I don't even think about all this any more, but when it's spelled out it sounds complicated.

Welcome to the club! That's the way to be. Why think / worry about how complicated something is. Just get on with the work and it will all work out fine, as long as you are attentive to what you're doing.

[Tony Zaffuto]

If you're asking for my personal opinion as a hobbyist woodworker, definitely not! A LN dowel plate was one of those "forum spoken of" things I succumbed into buying 5 or 6 years ago. Tried it a few times with so-so results. But the test is, do you use and need dowels?

[Jim Koepke]

Just get on with the work and it will all work out fine, as long as you are attentive to what you're doing.

And remember which side of the cut the waste is on... DAMHIKT!

jtk

[Nelson Howe]

When I built my bench, I drilled a hole in a piece of steel I had lying around (part of a bracket I think) . I cut some oak close to the right size, sharpened one end in the pencil sharpener, then chucked the other end in the drill press. I spun the oak through the plate and got good dowels. I've been using the same technique with my ln dowel plate, and find it makes much smoother pegs quickly.

Nelson

[paul cottingham]

I mortised my bench top and sunk my dowel plate into it. Makes it easier to pound a bit of stock through, but I must try a drill.