ca-blo finish on pens

[paul wiser]

having a problem with this finish when i go to polish them. when i finish withe ca-blo they have a good shiny finish. i go to polish them, and they lose some of the sheen. maybe i don't let them cure long enough. any ideas appreciated. thanks :confused::confused::confused:

[Alan Trout]

I hate to say it but stop using the BLO as it will only cause problems. Just us CA and you will be good to go. Be sure to build enough finish to sand and then polish. BLO never lets the CA cure properly and you will never have good success. I teach and demo ca finishes and have tried every possible combination.

Good luck

Alan

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Alan, I have had good luck with CA&BLO. When I tried just CA, it ate me alive and I ruined several pen blanks and tubes.

I used Russ Fairfield's video to learn, did as it said and it worked well FOR ME. I suggest that one should find a method that works for them and use it.

[Alan Trout]

CA never properly cures with BLO you can come back 6 months later and cut the CA on the blank and smell CA. You may not agree with me but I put CA on some pretty large stuff with great success. I know Russ was a big supporter of the CA BLO method but I have found that it is not the best method.

Alan

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Allen...I'm not trying to steal your thunder but I experienced the exact opposite results.

[Alan Trout]

Ken,

There is no thunder to steel. If you ever get to San Antonio. I can show how to do a CA finish on a pen in 5 min and perfect every time. This is a standing invitation to anyone here at Sawmill Creek if they get this way I will show how to do a proper CA finish. The BLO slows the cure rate to much. If you try to use it on a mixed media piece you would understand what I am talking about as it shrinks between the wood and resin and leaves a horrible finish. Also it can lead to specs and other issues with the finish. While I don't consider myself an expert on many things I do consider myself an expert on CA finishing. Anyone that has seen my vessels in person can attest to the quality of my finishes.

Here is a little PDF that I have put together that gives a brief description. 225809



Alan

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Alan.....I have tried several times to use just CA without out any success and a few years ago another Creeker Joel Sauter did show me, Brian and Tamara Brown how to use just CA. All I said is that I encourage each person to find a method that works for them and use it. CA and BLO works for me and many others. And while I don't consider myself an expert, I do reserve the right have a differing opinion and experience.

[Kevin W Johnson]

Alan,

Have you ever considered posting a video to youtube? I know there are many on there, but I'm bettin' that most of us here have no idea who those people are. I'd be very interested in seeing you demo using just CA. I'm in the camp with Ken, having tried it, and not had success. I'd guess the CA being used is a BIG factor.

I do know that the success in using CA and BLO is directly tied to the amount of BLO used.

[Doug W Swanson]

I'm certainly not an expert when it comes to BLO/CA and CA finishes but I've found that straight CA works better for me. I started using the BLO/CA method and just couldn't get consistent results with it on my pens. Then I switched to a CA finish and while I still haven't got it down to a science yet, the results are much better. With the BLO/CA method I would get cloudiness occasionally but that's not a problem with CA.
Now my main problem is applying the CA where I don't have to go too low in the grits to smooth it out. It will come with more practice!

[Jim Burr]

1500 pens and I have never used BLO...just CA. I did 10 Pens For Soldiers today and all have an excellent CA finish. Not looking for an argument...just been my experience.

[Mike Campbell KS]

When I started making pens, I used the BLO/CA finish every time. After a decent hiatus from pens, I had a lot of trouble getting a good finish. Lately I have been consistantly getting a very good finish using med. CA, and a quick spray or two with CA accelerator between every 2 or so coats. Then wet sanding thru every grit of MM and using a plastic polish. They feel kind of like a acrylic blank, but look very good. Good luck.

[Russell Eaton]

I did a video for Stickfast and it is on youtube. If you go to the stickfast website they have it there. I also use no blo and it is done in under 5 min. as well. Hope this helps.

[James Combs]

I am in the CA only camp. I have done something over 150 pens and the last 100 or more have been CA only(the previous ones were with wax products). I have not timed myself but I apply one coat of thin and 8-10 coats of medium with an occasional accelerator squirt. Then water/wet sand through all the MMs. I doubt that it takes more then 5-6 minutes. For pens and other small items like bottle stoppers I wouldn't use anything else.

[Sid Matheny]

I have made hundreds of pens and use CA/BLO. This video is about the way I do mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orcgOf4siqc&feature=channel_page

Sid

[John Terefenko]

Hello Paul

I see you did not get your questioned answered so I will answer for you.

I did not realize we were having a poll of weather or not to use BLO. I am and always was a believer that adding blo can have no good effects to it. Never have used and will never use it. You are mixing an oil with whatever CA is made of. People that say it is the heat that the oil creates causes it to cure faster, it actually is the time you hang onto that paper towel and rubbing on the blank that is causing the heat. Blo just made it more slippery for you to do that. I am not a scientist but what is the blo doing to the strength or molecules of the CA?? If it was made to be used with CA why do they not sell it already mixed??? Maybe you people that do use it can come up with a formula and put out the next great product with it mixed already.

Ca needs to outgas when drying. It needs to cure before you polish it on a buffer. That is why it is cloudying up. You create heat again when buffing and this reactivates the not so cured CA and you are now mixing that with the white polishing stick material you used to polish with. Thus the cloudy look. Just let cure more and then polish if you so choose to and you should be fine.


I think this posted but I don't see it.

[Marty Eargle]

I have applied BLO, walnut oil, mineral oil, and Danish oil under CA for pen and bottle stopper turning. I apply my oil, let it soak in a bit, and then burnish it off. In particular, BLO can make some grains pop that CA simply will not do alone.

I don't know what is so upsetting to you John about people having luck with this method of finishing. There is a way to do it that some people just haven't learned yet. And no, BLO doesn't do anything to strengthen CA, but it doesn't need to. You're not mixing the two. A CA finish is not meant to mix or bond with any other finish used...but rather simply create a plastic like coat over it. Whether or not what is underneath ever fully cures is irrelevant...it's if the CA keeps its integrity. I have seen pens finished with BLO and CA that have kept their integrity to years and have keep a gloss. It's all about technique and preference.

[John Terefenko]

I have applied BLO, walnut oil, mineral oil, and Danish oil under CA for pen and bottle stopper turning. I apply my oil, let it soak in a bit, and then burnish it off. In particular, BLO can make some grains pop that CA simply will not do alone.

I don't know what is so upsetting to you John about people having luck with this method of finishing. There is a way to do it that some people just haven't learned yet. And no, BLO doesn't do anything to strengthen CA, but it doesn't need to. You're not mixing the two. A CA finish is not meant to mix or bond with any other finish used...but rather simply create a plastic like coat over it. Whether or not what is underneath ever fully cures is irrelevant...it's if the CA keeps its integrity. I have seen pens finished with BLO and CA that have kept their integrity to years and have keep a gloss. It's all about technique and preference.



Marty if you are talking to me you need to go back and read the post. You are confusing things. It is not a case of using blo or any other oils to pop the grain. Blo in this case is used in conjunction with the use of CA. In other words it is applied together. You are mixing together and are changing the integrity of the CA. You put a few drops of CA and then add a few drops of BLO together and it is suppose to smooth out the CA to avoid those streaky lines. That is the only purpose to use it. Most people who have learned to use just CA avoid those lines by other means. I too use Boiled linseed oil to pop the grain when I am top coating with anything other than poly which usually is always. Doing flat work and other turnings I like waterbased lacquers. Pens I use CA. I have only used poly on my hardwood floors in my house.

Hope I was not the one to confuse you.


I personally do not care what method people use at all. The question was not answered and it became a poll as to who use what method. Who cares??? I mentione d my findings and mentioned I use CA only.

[Marty Eargle]

No worries here John. I thought we were talking about using BLO and then a CA finish. I have never even heard of actually mixing the two and will agree that it makes no sense. Chemically, that would cause issues no doubt. There are many applications in where oil is used to help break down and remove CA glue from things.

[Jon Behnke]

I also use CA only. There are as many CA finishing methods as there are pen turners. I tried several methods and found a simple 5 coats thin and 5-7 coats medium is the most simple for me to get a good finish. There are many variables from shop humidity to the amount of oil in the wood to the color of your socks that day, BLO just adds another variable to the equation. This is not to take away anything from those that use BLO with success, you have to find a method that works for you. There are many methods on video and described on the IAP (penturners forum), try some until you find one that works.

[paul wiser]

sorry that i started such a firestorm about this problem!! thanks to all who have expressed opinions on both sides, i see where i could make changes, especially in regard to letting it cure longer before polishing. :):):)

[Kevin W Johnson]

There's no firestorm, it's just that for a variety of reasons (variables), different methods work for different people. I'd like to figure out the BLO'less method, it's just the first time I tried it, I ended up with a mess. As a result I returned to what has worked for me.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Paul,

I will apologize to you.

I don't know what the answer is to your problem as I have never experienced it in my use of BLO & CA.

I have seen many discussions on SMC concerning pen finishes. Some of those listed have been shellac based finishes, plexiglass dissolved in acetone, CA, Blo&CA, lacquer and others I am sure I have accidentally overlooked.

As I first stated and others stated after me, take your time, try different methods, find one that works for you and stick with it.

Again, my apologies.