I keep breaking screws in this bubinga!!

[Todd Burch]

I'm batting .1000 breaking off putting some #10 x 1 1/4" screws into the bottom of this bubinga table top. I don't think God meant for this to happen.

The first one, I didn't predrill. ZAP. Broke off. No problem, I got the vise grips out and backed it out - a lot easier than I expected.

Second screw, I predrill with a 7/64 bit. I figure something is better than nothing. So, either my drill was dull, or this bubinga is HARDER than I thought. I get the hole drilled. Second screw. ZAP. Broke again.

I'm thinking that these Home Depot screws are junk. (Crown Bolt Co. - Zinc).

I may be going to stainless, if they'll be stronger... I want to put some mammy on these screws and keep them snug. Any suggestions?

Todd

[Jim Becker]

Finer threads and better screws...definitely predrill and use a little paraffin on the fasteners to lubricate them. (NOT soap!...it attracts moisture)

BTW, I like that base so much, I may try a similar thing one of these days for a natural edge dining table I have on my list for the great room!

[Doug Shepard]

I've been in that situation more times than I care to remember. Now I always take a scrap and experiment with different pilot hole sizes until I can put the screws in by hand but still be snug. Take heart - at least you're not having to screw into Ipe.

[Dale Thompson]

Todd,
You are making the mistake of following directions. :rolleyes: That is almost NEVER a good idea. The charts say 7/64" for a #10 screw. With any kind of hardwood, I always go at least one size higher - sometimes more.

I'm sorry, but cranking a #10 screw into solid Oak with a 7/64 pilot hole (As Woody Hayes used to say at Ohio State about passing the football) will result in one of three things happening - and two of them are bad. 1) The screw will go in just fine. That's good! :) 2) The screw will break. That's bad #1! :( 3) The screw head will strip out! That's bad #2! :mad: Wax will help a lot but a slightly larger bit will help also. The combination is your best bet. :cool:

Just wait till you try BRASS screws! They twist off while you are putting the bit in your screwdriver. :eek: The other problem is that they are so soft that getting them out with a needle-nose pliers or a vice-grip is virtually impossible. All you get are chips of brass. If you are really lucky, you may be able to drill them out. :) DANG! If I just could find the directions for my drill!! :o

Dale T.

[Brian Buckley]

Todd,

Be carefull if you use stainless screws. I just finished a teak table for my beach house useing stainless #10 Phillips screws. The heads strip out very easy. Next time I will only use square drive heads when useing stainless.

Brian

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Todd, your first supposition was correct. Also I use Johnson's paste was on screws in hard wood. It really makes a difference.

[Todd Burch]

Dale, what directions?! I just grabbed a bit I thought looked like it would make a good starter hole!! And, I've tried brass screws in even softer wood. I've drilled out more broken brass screws than anyone's share. No thanks!!

So, who can tell me that wax will or wax won't cause my screw to hold tight for the next 4-5 years? (As compared to not using wax).

If I can't find any screws, I may end up drilling big holes, setting some inserts into the table with epoxy, and using machine screws.

Tomorrow, I go on a hunt for some worthy screws.

[Gene Hatcher]

Todd,
I have never broken a McFeeleys steel screw. The threads are sharp and they are strong. Some of them have a lube finish and don't need any additional wax. When I need to lubricate a screw, I use an old candle or bees wax. Just scrape the threads across it and drive it home. Church candles are usually easy to find and are often made from bees wax.

[Ian Barley]

Todd

Definitely upsize the pilot hole. Definitely don't use "traditional" woodscrews - you want something with a sabre point and probably twin threads. Definitely a bit of lubricant. I take a can of PTFE spray lubricant and spray the contents of each box of screws as I unpack them.

I would also not try and drive the screw home in one go. Drive it partway, back it out, drive it a little further. This helps both with cutting the thread and reduces heat build up in the screw.

[Jim Becker]

I would also not try and drive the screw home in one go. Drive it partway, back it out, drive it a little further. This helps both with cutting the thread and reduces heat build up in the screw.
Good point, Ian. Just like when tapping metal, hard, dense woods can benefit from "clearing" the threads by backing out a bit during the process.

[Tim Sproul]

You are in need of the appropriate bits:

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/drilling/07j0502g2.jpg

Link (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32309&cat=1,180,42240)

You'll also notice the recommend pilot for a #10 is 13/64 inch..... ;).

And the taper point is much more important for dense hardwoods like bubinga......I've put paste wax on screws for repairs done more than a decade ago. They're still seated tightly.

[Dale Thompson]

Dale, what directions?! I just grabbed a bit I thought looked like it would make a good starter hole!! And, I've tried brass screws in even softer wood. I've drilled out more broken brass screws than anyone's share. No thanks!!

So, who can tell me that wax will or wax won't cause my screw to hold tight for the next 4-5 years? (As compared to not using wax).

If I can't find any screws, I may end up drilling big holes, setting some inserts into the table with epoxy, and using machine screws.

Tomorrow, I go on a hunt for some worthy screws.

Todd,
As usual, you are a trouble maker! :) The directions I referred to were the ones for your manual screwdriver. ;) Don't give up on brass - especially if it is a cannonball holder from an anciently sunk Spanish Galeon.

Wax, as a lubricant, WILL allow your screws to penetrate further into the wood with less applied torque (ie. less chance of breaking the screw or stripping the head). That will mean better holding power. :cool:

What is this 4-5 year thing? Double-stick tape will hold for THAT long! :o I thought that we were building our stuff for 30-40 generations to come. :confused: Aren't you using glue in addition to the screws? Glue is that "sticky stuff" that makes things stick together. ;) Some of it is called CA. Watch that stuff and NEVER visit the bathroom if you have any residue left on your hands. :eek: The nurses in the Emergency Room really get a good laugh out of that dilemma! ;)

Seriously, though, Ian had a great idea in terms of partially setting the screw and then backing it out prior to the last set.

I'm not sure that Tim is interpreting his Chart correctly. 13/64" decimals out to .203". My #10 screws mike out at about .180". I think that he was talking about a "shank" hole vs a "pilot hole". That said, I've never been able to afford "tapered" drills so I may be wrong. If I am wrong, it certainly would not be the first time.

In summary, Todd, inserts, epoxy (gap filling) and machine screws are a real cop-out. C'mon! Jump on the scrap wagon like I do. The cold people of the world will thank us. :D :)

Dale T.

[Joseph N. Myers]

Todd,

Jim Becker said "better" and Gene Hatcher said "McFeelys". I totally agree with both and would like to add "square drive screws". McFeelys chart for #10 screws using brads in hardwood is 9/64. Normally, stainless steel is not as strong as regular screws. I've used the "back out and re-drill" many times mainly because my drills aren't that powerful and have to especially in locust and hickory.

McFeelys , 800-443-7937, www.mcfeelys.com (http://www.mcfeelys.com/). BTW, McFeelys sells all sorts of screws but I mainly use their "No-Code-Rode", the most corrosion-resistant plating that they offer. And if nothing else, order their catalog --- its full of all sorts of info on screws and related products.

Regards, Joe

[Todd Burch]

I ordered two flavors of screws today from McMaster Carr. Nice customer service. I had two people on the phone for 10 minutes discussing a $3.00 box of screws. They'll be here tomorrow - overnight for the price of ground. If neither flavor work, I'll be drilling for inserts.

As far a progress goes, the base got its first coat of black lacquer today. Looks like it might a Saturday delivery.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Keith Starosta]

Todd, I just wanted to say that I can't wait to see the final product. I think I speak for most here at the Creek when I say I've been anxious to see what you'd do with that MONSTER hunk of wood since the day it got delivered to your shop. :)

I'm sure it's a awesome!

Keith

[Richard Wolf]

A quick tip for those using brass screws. Insert a steel screw of the same size first, remove it than use the brass screw. Saves alot frustration.

Richard

[Michael Stafford]

I'm thinking that these Home Depot screws are junk. (Crown Bolt Co. - Zinc). Todd


I would definitely predrill, get better screws and use a lubricant such as beeswax or akempucky. I use a lot of brass screws in small box making and I have found I have to pre-drill, then pre-thread the wood using a steel screw of the same size and then lube the brass screw.

I think more than anything this is a case of cheap screws. IMHO.