Spraying Lacquer or Poly

[Bernie Weishapl]

My question is how does everyone go about spraying finishes especially lacquer if you can't open the doors? I needed to spray some lacquer the other day. It was cold, snowing and blowing. I used a 3M half face respirator for spraying. That works but it leaves such a smell in the room. I thought about a exhaust fan but lacquer is so volitale that I woud be concerned with using like a bathroom exhaust fan because the motor could cause sparks. This would be for doing just small turning projects. Just curious. Thanks.

[Doug W Swanson]

When I've sprayed small items I will just close the door to my shop and spray away. Then I just shut the door when I leave and it seems to work ok. If I was spraying multiple items or larger items it might be a problem but this method seems to work for a few small things.....

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Bernie - for a stand-alone shop, you could consider getting a window fan that blows *in* to the shop (and crack some other windows or doors), so the fumes don't go over the fan unit. I would not do that on a shop attached to a house in any way, however.

[Russell Neyman]

I'm a lacquer guy and during the cold winters (we have a high of about 38 here today) it's impossible to spray lacquer in my shop. The high humidity makes the finish foggy and bumpy. Rattlecan poly doesn't fog but it takes forever to dry in the cold. I'm forced to use the downstairs bathroom where it's warm. Can't say that I ever worry about any of it igniting, but the odor does get pretty strong. The bathroom fan helps.

I'd be interested in hearing ideas from other woodworkers who live in less-finishing friendly climates.

[Dennis Ford]

It tends to be warmer where I live, if it is too cold I can wait a few days for warmer temperatures. Humidity is more of a problem. I will brush on lacquer based sanding sealer inside the shop but will not spray lacquer in my shop, the fumes are just too strong. Sometimes I use Wipe on Poly instead of lacquer because of weather issues. For really light colored wood WOP is not suitable and those pieces have to wait if the weather is not suitable for outside spraying.

[Bob Bergstrom]

I have a totally enclosed high velocity fan in my basement window and use whenever I am spraying. A few years a go I got a new furnace. I was done spraying and notice that the house temperature was dropping. Call the furnace guy and he asked if I had a whole house fan. Come to find out that the evacuating fan pull the fumes back down the flue and shut down the furnace. The repair guy showed me where the reset button was. Now I turn off the furnace and spray and turn it back on after. If I use a rattle can, I will step out side spray and leave the bowl out on the poach. If the lacquer and bowl are warm it usually flows out pretty well.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Bernie,
I wouldn't even consider spraying the solvent based lacquer I use in an enclosed area without good exhaust. I built a spray booth fan into the shop. It is housed in a little enclosure I built onto the shop so I can close it in to save heat when not in use. The fan not only removes the vapor, it pulls over spray away from the item being sprayed. I make sure the shop, the lacquer and the item to be sprayed are all nice and warm before I begin. My heater can't make up the air being sucked out but the lacquer dries so quickly I still get a very good job. Have you tried water based products? They might be less dangerous without a fan. I avoid spraying in wet weather. If I must, I add a retarder to the lacquer so the moisture doesn't get trapped and cause blushing.
faust

[Rob Price]

YMMV, but I taped paper over the middle part of a box fan where the motor is, a furnace filter over the rest and used that to exhaust the fumes outside for SMALL projects (i.e. rattle can) and haven't had a problem- my thought being the filter catches any droplets and the small about of fumes isn't enough to cause a sparking problem. I use my HVLP outside for bigger stuff and just have to wait for better weather.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks to all. Well my doc says I have to do something. So I am going to Denver and going to try some General Finishes water based. I have also called some friends and did some research that Polycrylic, GF High Performance Poly and Enduro-var have some very good results. So will try a pint of each and see what happens.

[Rob Price]

Have any of you tried spraying the WTF before? On their website the guy sprays it on a piece spinning on the lathe with and airbrush, just curious.

[Bernie Weishapl]

No Rob I haven't I have my airbrush system set up in another room of the shop. What I need to do in mount it so it is portable.

[Peter Elliott]

Bernie, tell me what your spraying with... I shot pretty much everything. I am a huge GF fan, I use a ton of their product. Waterborne Lacquers are not really lacquers, it's more of a marketing spin BUT they can resemble a lacquer finish.

If you can't spray, I highly suggest GF Arm-r-seal or Enduro Var as a wipe on alternative. There is also some good Sherwin Williams WB products as well.

But tell me what gun you are shooting, shop space and any furnace, heaters, ignition sources.

[BILL DONAHUE]

You could try moving to Florida so you could open up the doors. The problem is in the summer time it's so hot and humid the laquer won't dry so then you have to go back to Kansas.

[Steve Trauthwein]

Bernie,

I will cover my lathe with paper and place the small item on it. I then turn on my dust removal with the hose a couple of feet from the piece being sprayed. After spraying I leave the dust removal system running for a few minutes and then move the piece to a drying cabinet with a light for a heat source. Works ok, I hope.

Steve

[Michelle Rich]

Bernie: I would consider using less toxic materials..whether it be summer or winter. The toxic chemicals, will head out one window & in another...they dissapate, but are always in the air & mix with other chemicals & you are breathing a toxic soup. if you have neighbors, they are breathing your soup too. We are lucky today to have many good, less toxic to very green products

[doug williams]

Bernie, I spray in my basement all the time. I have an old furnace blower rigged up, roll it over to a window which is replaced with a plywood blank for this operation. The key to this is to open another window to counter balance the static air flow from the blower out, to get the air moving in the right direction. There is no pilot light on anything for me to worry about. A friend of mine does it this way, which is where I gotthe idea. I have sprayed several pieces of furniture over several years this way and no problems. Knock on wood maybe. For small things, as was mentioned, maybe a window fan would work for you and by opening another window for air circulation would work. It dosen't take long to vent the fumes outside with my old furnace blower. I also wear a resporater when spraying bigger pieces that take 20 minites or more. Hope this helps Doug

[Clint Merrill]

This may work for you Bernie ? I use an air brush with a small compressor [Harbor Freight], very inexpensive. I make a spray booth from cardboard boxes and use small dowells or coat hangers punched in the sides across the opening to hold pens, hang ornaments, etc. [empty beer boxes work good,, LOL.] Seriously the box cavity catches all the over spray and seems to hold the odor down too. I do this on the kitchen table , fortunately have not had any spills or boo boo's. Hope this helps.

Clint

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks for the replies. My building I have is a metal building. I had this thing built with energy in mind. I have 6" insulated walls and 24" in the attic. There in one door on one end and a insulated garage door on the other. There are no windows. The heat I have is hanging from the ceiling and gets return air thru the flu pipe. Even on the coldest days the heat will only come on 4 or 5 times during the day. When I built the building in 1994 I had my clock repair shop only in mind with a small portion 12 X24 for doing some lite wood working mostly on clock cases and for missing case parts. I acquired a lathe some 10 yrs after I built it in 2004 to turn spindle columns for clocks. Yep that was the only thing I was going to use it for. Famous last words. So now I try to split time between my clock work and turning. I had thought about a high cfm bathroom fan running it thru the wall using 4" pvc pipe but a couple of friends of mine were concerned with spraying something as volitale as lacquer thru it around the motor. Anyway I am going to try the 3 water based finishes that I mentioned. I would like to be able to air brush these finishes but would still need some type of booth for over spray in which I think a bath fan would work fine with a filter before it and pvc to the outside. Thanks again for all the replies.

[Bill Wyko]

I wonder how well a dust collector hose near the spray field would work. Just an idea.

[robert baccus]

Warning!! spraying anything with a flamable solvent in a closed room is like playing with dynamite.-worse. when i was a kid i sprayed cars for spending money--anywhere-anytime. my dad took me to a service station that looked like a parking lot. kids spraying cars on a colds winter nite--wiped out 3 kids and a nice exxon station. just a spark! i was a demo. guy in the service and 100# of cr-3 would not have slicked off that building as well. the lift and a few pipes survived. i spray 12 months a year but with a good wall fan 12" behind the lathe.-------------old forester

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks again. Robert I understand. Actually I wore a respirator and it was the lingering fumes that got me. I will have some kind of exhaust shortly but also will be using water based products. Will still need a respirator for overspray but at least no fumes.

[Jamie Donaldson]

Bernie, try the new GF Woodturner's Finish as a faster drying version of the GF High Performance. I used High Performance for several years but didn't like the wait for the finish to dry, and the WF dries in minutes. It has not yellowing effect on light colored woods like any oil based finish, smells like water, and leaves a really hard finish depending on how many layers you build.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks Jamie. I got some and have only used it on small stuff. I will have to try it on some bigger stuff and see how it turns out.

[robert baccus]

Bill, stop and think here, the laquere and solvent would be condensed into a small space and esentially stored. the motor or switch sparkor dust friction spark could get you. this sounds more dangerous. remember laquer is labeled "nitro-cellulose". also called gun cotton or smokeless gunpowder??? it is basically cotton disolved in nitric acid sometimes called nitroglycerine (sort of) dissolved in laquer thinner. and l. thinner, a volitile hyrocarbon is bad news and its resin GC is basically an explosive. a little simplified her but basically correct. this is far more dangerous than gasoline or natural gas and should be respected accordingly.----------------------old forester

[Eric Holmquist]

I've used both Vermont Natural Coatings PolyWhey and Target Coatings EM6000, and have been happy with both. It took me a bit of playing to get used to Waterborne finishes after using oil or solvent based finishes, but now I am quite happy with the results.

These two finishes are both very color neutral, I can spray them over airbrushed designs with no color shift. If I do a couple light mist coats over the airbrushing before applying the wet coats, the colors do not run / bleed.

I get a nice gloss finish which I can knock back if I want a more satin or matte look. No scary fumes or bad odors.

I use a conversion HVLP spray gun to apply the stuff.

If I want to use oil to bring out the figure before applying a top coat, I use an iterface layer of Shellac.

[Reid Strand]

For small turnings, if I really need to use laquer, I just get everything ready inside by the back door, step outside, spray, and bring it right back inside. still smells, but nothing like it would actually spraying inside. I've sprayed rattle can in below 0* F and it worked fine.