Help with deciding which Bandsaw to get....

[Ryan Carpenter]

Hey everyone I am new here and comer over via a recommendation from some guys at OWWM, this thread has been deleted twice now and I have missed most of the replies. I have been told it was to much like a classified. So please it is not one , I am not selling anything, I am looking at deals in place already I am asking for advice on the saws I have mentioned and need help deciding which is the better one. If you posted in the previous threads please try and repeat here and I hope this is clear enough it is a advice thread not a classified thread.

I am currently looking at three different used bandsaws here locally and can't decide which one to get. I will be replacing my Northfield 36" deluxe with one of these saws, I love this saw and it has done what I needed it too flawlessly. However since I will be shipping my stuff overseas and need to be able to unload it all with a tractor on dirt I need to find a good replacement as the Northfield is way to heavy for that.

The saws I am looking at right now are as follows (images of the SCMI and Laguna are not actual machine but identical ones from internet)

225235
1998 SCMI 600 sc 24", 4.9 hp 3ph motor with two cast iron fences, 900lbs? (possible Centuaro)
225234
2004 Laguna lt24x24, 5.4 hp 3ph, doesnt appear to be used much and needs a good cleaning but an apparently good saw, 755lbs,
225236
2010 Grizzly G0566SHD with a Laguna driftfence, has seen very little to almost no use, 680lbs.

Just wanted to hear from some of you who use these saws, please let me know what you think of your saw if you have one. What are the pros and cons of each? What are the blade size cababilities you have good expierience with on these. And any other thoughts out there pertaining to these machines? I will be using them mostly for resaw work and I have a 14" Powermatic already as well as a Powermatic 95 scroll saw so curves are taken care of. We also have a small woodmiser sawmill we will have access to so I can do some large resawing on that, however most of the lumber we use is cut on chainsaw mills so it need smoe work.

As a back story for equipment use context, my wife and I are moving as missionaries to Papua New Guinea. My main job will be to build mission homes and clinincs around the jungle area where we will be living using local native materials. Most of the woods I have to work with there are much harder that the domestic stuff here. I have a blade welder, grinder and sharpener so I can make my own sawmill blades from blade stock. I had hoped to do something similar with the other two machines as well. Not sure what is the best out there I can buy in spools, or if it is worth doing it that way. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I will be running all of my equipment off of two 65kw generators that provide 230-440v 50hz power, but I will only have 70 amps at my disposal for the shop. I do have a good quality tranformer / inverter that will give me 110/ 220 60hz power but only single phase.

Right now I am leaning towards the Laguna as it seams to have the most clearance for resawing and the least use of the larger two Italian saws. However from what I understand the SCMI is a heavier built machine and it is in great condition too. I am leaning away from the Grizzly although with the sawmill available and the grizzly being so new and in such good shape it may be worth it. Let me know what you think, and thank you ahead of time.

[Mike Heidrick]

Can you find a MM20? It has 20" resaw and can be purchased in single phase 60hz. Its 800lbs. Its what God would use if he was buying a powered bandsaw for Papua. ;)

[David Kumm]

Ryan, that frustrating because you clearly were not selling anything. Van and I have been going back and forth about which saw and what blade to use. The SCMI is a Centauro and my choice and the Laguna is Van's assuming the condition is equal. It is so close a call that price is a consideration. Either of those saws is better than the Grizzly and unless the Grizzly is half of the others I wouldn't consider it. The SCMI motor might be happier at 50 hz as many of their motors are 50 hz speeded up to 60 for the US market. If the Laguna has a Baldor it has the best motor. If not I still lean towards the SCMI. Dave

[John Shuk]

I would choose the SCMI. I think you would find it a better international traveler as far as parts and compatibility with foreign power sources.

[Van Huskey]

I ain't going through it again! I hope you read it before is vanished.

I agree it is close to a flip of the coin between the Laguna and SCMI but given the local wood you will be using I would go for horsepower and the Laguna has the SCMI beat but by less than I thought, was guessing 3hp on the SCMI. I had ask about power and admit the Laguna motor may not be quite as happy on 50 cycle power but that just isn't enough to sway me, the SCMI's motor is probably 50hz. If the Laguna comes with the power feeder that is another huge bonus!


For blades I would suggest carbide (which are a pain to weld DIY) if you can source them. I will be happy to give specific recommendations but it depends on your availability.

If/when the moderator that removed this reads this consider moving Dave's and my discussion into this thread and or removing the "offensive" phrase and putting the thread back up, there was a lot of info (mainly Dave's) about SCMI saws and there is VERY little info available for these and they do come up used a lot. Feel free to delete this since I did not contact you directly but I don't know who to contact.

The more I think about this the more conflicted I am, just buy the cheaper of the two, unless the Laguna is only a little higher and comes with the feeder.

[richard poitras]

I have a Laguna LT18 and have had a Grizzly. I would opt in for the Laguna if it were me. The Grizzly’s are okay saws but just not in the same class as the other two.

[Van Huskey]

Rethinking the motor on the Laguna, since it isn't a NEMA frac size I bet it is before they switch to US built motors and it is a European 50hz motor as well.

Back to the blade thing, I would again recommend carbide tipped blades. Since it doesn't seem like you plan on cutting veneer for fine furniture I would recommend Lenox Woodmaster CT bands, 1"x.035" 1.3 TPI, I would prefer it over the Lenox Trimaster for resawing timber since it can be had in 1.3 TPI which the more aggressive cut will be better for timber. The Woodmaster is technically a sawmill blade which seems like what you plan to use the BS for.

One note about the Trimaster if you expect to make any cuts in anything other than wood the Woodmaster won't do it, the Trimaster will however even up to the rare cut in titanium alloys, so that could be a positive in the middle of nowhere, which I assume you will be based on your electricity situation.

BTW good luck on your journey

[Ryan Carpenter]

Hey guys thanks again for the replies

Mike I like it, you know when I talked to God he said the same thing and when I asked him for the cash to buy said mm20 he said I would have to get back with him later jkjk. I don't have the cash right now and all I can do is stick with the offers on the plate at the moment as no one offered an MM20. Maybe God has one in store tomorrow. Hmm I'll talk to him more tonight about that, and of that one I am serious.

Mike and Dave you have both commented on the condition of the saws being a factor, both of the saws are in about equal condition, the Laguna may be in a bit better shape but not by much. Also Van you are right the Laguna is also a 50hz motor sped up for the power change here so that being said both of the Italian saws are 50hz machines. Also no feeder on the Laguna, I was kinda hopeful when the guy first called me but none such luck when I stopped by to look at it. I like the Laguna better for resaw capacity and the SCMI for weight. I have a sawmill accessible so the capacity is not as big of a deal.

As far as cost is concerned, what I did was put an add on craigslist saying I have a 36" Northfield that I need to sell or trade for a good 20-24inch bandsaw. These are the three best offers I received from local guys. I have looked at all three of the saws and like each for different reasons. So that in mind they are all even exchange so no cost to me. So since it is not a cost issue or motor issue what is the better one, for longevity etc.

As far as parts are concerned for either one they will be impossible to get where I will be. I will have to email someone in the US to find them for me and then wait the 6 months it takes to get to me. Because of this I have to consider the ease of finding parts for my buyer here in the USA.So on that note the better the saw is built the better it is for me. I will go through everything on it and restore it to like new before shipping as I am in the middle of doing on several other pieces of equipment right now.

As far as blades are concerned I have used the Lenox Woodmaster blade you talked about Van and I like it too. I am divided on carbide as it is a lot harder to resharp myself. I can with the machine I have but it is a cost per sharp issue. However I like the cut better and carbide lasts longer than HS steel. I am still on the fence there. As far as veneering I wont do it very often but every now and again I get a really nice piece of figured wood in one of the trees we cut and would love to make veneer out of it to make it go farther. Some of the Teak there is the purdiest stuff I have ever seen, especially when it is all burled up. So I will take a trimaster or something of the ilk for an occasional use item.

Let me know if you all have any more comments and thanks a bunch.

[David Kumm]

The guy getting your saw in trade is the real winner. Maybe he will contribute to the cause. Good luck, Dave

[Van Huskey]

The guy getting your saw in trade is the real winner. Maybe he will contribute to the cause. Good luck, Dave

Ditto...

I understand your concern about carbide, you might then want to look at the bi-metal version of the Woodmaster it is the Woosmaster B, available in 1"x.035 and 1.3 TPI will outlast carbon by at least a factor of 5 and something you can sharpen much easier than the carbide. Teak... the tree just about completely made out of silicon or it seems that way when it comes to tooling.

BTW it is obvious you aren't going to be there for just a week or two, but if possible take picture espcially of the woodworking and share when you have the ability to. I think many here would appreciate them.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

Consider also, you might be able to market veneer or enable the locals to use it to good advantage to raise additional funds for the work you are doing.

[Jim Andrew]

Maybe you should be looking at bandmills, if you are going to make trees into lumber? Having a carriage with a moving bandsaw works a lot better than trying to put a tree through a bandsaw. Just a thought.

[Brian Kincaid]

Well if you have 3phase available and you want to go that route it's a wash between the larger saws. You might want to contact SCMI and Laguna and see if they are still supporting the model in question.

If not the Grizzly has served me very well and would do the same for you ;)
-Brian

[Ryan Carpenter]

Thanks you all for the responses. I agree on the marketing veneer, except for New Guineas law on expat business etc being so strict we have to be very careful about appearing to be for profit. However we will work with enabling the nationals to work and profit with the stuff we have. We do have a bandsaw mill, further up the thread. It is a older Woodmiser that we would like to replace in the not to distant future, but it works for now. That being said we prefer to buy pre-cut timber from the nationals giving them an income source and then we re-mill it to our needs. We do have three phase power my question is mostly about feasability of use and longevity of each machine and ease of parts replacement. The benefit of the grizzly is it is a easy one to repair and easy to transport and with the bandsaw mill I don't need a big resaw capacity, but the other two saws are a better trade value. Still on the fence a bit. I will be going back tomorrow to look at the SCMI and the Laguna more closely.

Any particular details I should look at to note for wear and tear on the SCMI or the Laguna? I don't know these machines and am not sure what particulars to look for.

[Van Huskey]

I don't know if I would consider the Grizzly easier to repair.

I would check all the normal stuff, do a pre-flight chack and make sure everything looks right before fire up (make sure the blade is tensioned!) then watch for vibration and noise, both should snap to speed given they are 3ph well snap to speed considering they are heavy wheeled bandsaws. When you have run them make sure you move EVERY single adjustment from guides to wheels to make sure they work, the last thing I do it pull the blade and spin the upper wheel to let it coast down (bearing check). Hard to give you an exact figure but with a good spin it should coast for well over a minute. Don't get concerned if it doesn't go forever but if it rumbles to stop in 15-20 seconds you may have an issue. Both of those saws are relatively young and should be in excellent shape unless they were abused. Depending on the wording of your "offer" I would not be concerned about pushing your chosen saw's owner for a better deal, they are far and away getting something worth considerably more, assuming that something is in good condition. In the end I don't know of any problem areas to be aware of on either saw specifically, in that I am unaware of any pattern problems. Good luck, and you do know we wanna see pictures!

[Jeff Duncan]

My only thought is to at least reconsider your plan of attack. You are ending up with a lesser saw in any of the 3 options, and that should be the last resort. I would see if there's work arounds to get your Northfield shipped. I'm thinking even if you have to partially disassemble, it would still be worth it to keep a saw you already own and presumably know well. Just taking the table and top wheel off would remove a lot of weight on a saw that size.

This is where you may find some good advice back over at OWWM, there are a lot of guys there very knowledgeable about moving big machines like yours. My first thought is to design a crate that would allow you to tip the saw on it's side fully cradled and supported. Have 2 timbers running the full length of the bottom of the crate with one end curved up. Then you could use the tractor to pull the crate like a sled instead of lifting straight up! Just one option...I'm sure those smarter than me can offer even more.

May sound crazy, but then again the Egyptians built pyramids out of stones weighing many tons without tractors.....where there's a will, there's a way;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Ryan Carpenter]

Thanks for the thoughts Jeff, I am of the same mind as you. However I have moved this saw several time and am pretty good at it at this point. The first time I did it was with the help of some guys at OWWM. I took off the top wheel tables etc and drove it crated upright on a trailer from New York to TX. My big problem is not getting it to PNG but rather getting it from port to point of use. Where this will most likely end up is 12 hours up a river by boat, or 2 hrs from port by puddle jumper plane. Since there is no way to fit this in a Cessna, and I don't have the money to pay the govt to fly it out in a Chinook Heli, the only other option would be by boat and the saw weighs twice what the boats can hold. There is a barge we could pay to use but then how do I get this up a twelve foot bank out of a barge onto muddy ground at the top with only a tractor with a 2100lb lift rating on the bucket. I could wait till it floods and the be able to get the barge over the bank but then I cant use the tractor to unload it so....... While I know there is a way, I have seen many things find the bottom of the river very quickly and would rather be safe than sorry.

Trust me when I say I have been over and over and over this. I can't afford to ship this only to get it in country and not be able to move it. I love this saw and the way it works. It is hard to let it go. I know its value and I know that whoever gets it in trade is getting a amazing deal, for that matter while I am happy to trade what I have been offered is a little less than I had hoped for. But I need a saw that will do close to what I have done with my Northfield and I need it to be no cash out of pocket so what is offered is what I have to consider and work with. I had really hoped someone would have a 24" Northfield to trade wouldn't that be a perfect world! Or a newish MM24 or 28 since those are more on par with the value of my saw however once again what I have is what I have to work with. What the heck I will put an add up here and....

If I had time to sit on it for sale I would love to and then maybe with the money I could buy something outright but since I need to have this shipping container ready to go in the next few weeks I don't have that time and am stuck in a big pickle. My income is based on donations and so is my budget for tools hence the trade aspect, if I had cash to buy another saw I would and then I would have a friend sell the Northfield for me. I don't have those options at the moment. Unless that is someone here wants to donate to the cause and then I would be happy to give you a tax receipt for it and all in the world would be better. That is a joke, but only sort of , really.

So all in all I will go look at the saws today and see what I think about them give them a good run over and go from there. I am leaning towards the Laguna but then again the weight of the SCMI and I could do this for a while so I think whatever one is in the best shape is what I will go with for now.... Thanks for all of the comments and help so far.

Oh I started an album with a few pics from PNG to give some bearing on it all. I'll add more later.

[Brian Kincaid]

Ryan,
Do you have any idea what your Northfield would weigh if you removed the table, wheels, and motor? I removed the wheels and table from my Grizz to uncrate it safely and it was really easy to move by myself. If I had removed the motor it would have been a joke. You are right that none of the saws you are considering (mine included) is in the same class as your Northfield. Likely because none exist.

Your saw starts at 2800lbs ?
How about a pontoon boat/sled that you can pull up the bank with a come-along?
So, just how much can you disassemble on that beast?
-Brian

[Myk Rian]

but then how do I get this up a twelve foot bank out of a barge onto muddy ground at the top with only a tractor with a 2100lb lift rating on the bucket.
Ropes, pulleys, and skids.

[Van Huskey]

I am the first to say keep the Northfield BUT the logistics sound scary! Knowing how much of a pain heavy iron is to move in the US with any moving asset available with at worst and exchange of money the thoughts of being in a jungle with the conditions as described would make me wonder if gravity and friction might not get the best of me. The barge owner would probably give me a couple of kina and use it as an anchor.

[Ryan Carpenter]

You are all right to an extent. I know this is a good deal not for me, and I wish it were easier to keep this thing but, it is something that I am not going to agonize to much over , I may have night mares but not to much agonizing. As far as the barge driver giving me a few Kina for a boat anchor I think the barge driver would more likely charge me for making him loose face, not pay for an anchor that would sink his boat. It is partly logistics and partly I just can't afford the risk, and partly with 10 machines in the 900+ lb weight range I don't need the hastle of another one if I have bandsaw mill that can cut all my big lumber needs. I need something that is going to be easy to do some basic resaw work on and easier to move than the northfield.

[Van Huskey]

One must do what one has to do. It works for you since you get what you need which ultimately represents more value to you than a saw that can't meet your needs.

[Andrew Joiner]

Ryan, I hate to derail this thread, but I have a suggestion. We all work so differently. There's a lot of experience here. Could you maybe start a new thread detailing the actual things to be built? From what you've said so far I would think your sawmill could produce all the stock needed. I think of resawing being valuable for finer work.

I'm sure you know what you need,but there's a ton of excellent woodworkers here that could help your creative process.