thrift store find

[steven c newman]

Found at a Thrift store, for $25:225106225107225108has some issues with the sole, around the mouth225109225110lateral adjuster is missing225111and lever cap has some chip-out225112 this is a Bailey #8c, @ $25 out the door. This might take awhile to get to "user status" Sole is flat though. Lots of rust, handles need a little work, or maybe a couple new ones...;) There are two Pat Dates in front of the tote, "Mar 23 ( 8?) 02" and APR 19-02. Ring a bell, anyone?

[Bill Rogers]

Steve,

This isn't what I was looking for, there is a .pdf flowchart that lists the same information, but use the link shown below and it should help you to figure out the age of your new toy!

http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/dating_flowchart.php#Types%201-20

Bill

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I don't know - I know number 8s seem to come up less frequently than other planes, but with the damage to the sole, I probably still would have balked at 25. But I'm stingy lately.

That said, it's been fun seeing the tools you pick get restored, so I'll be interested in seeing this cleaned up!

[steven c newman]

1902-1907 type 9..

[steven c newman]

Should've seen the #26 they had for $35! Needed a whole new sole! I passed on that one. That #8c is a type 9 Bailey. It will take awhile to clean up, at least to user status. I tend to like a challenge, though....

[Zach Dillinger]

The sole damage means it isn't a collector piece. But that's awesome, since you want a user anyway. I don't know where you'd find a user 8C for $25. Nice score!

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I've seen these planes with this damage before, and I have to ask what caused it? someone clamping the frog down too hard? You'd think the threads would strip first. I suppose you just have to drop the thing just right.

The part that's always caused me to pass on these planes is this though:

225161

Hard to tell from the picture, but if it's what I think it is, (and like the other ones I've seen) those are the "feet" from the front of the frog showing there - I don't know my frog types as well as I should, but I wonder about getting good support for the frog (and thus the blade) with the front end hanging in the air like that. Seems like a good recipe for chatter, you've basically sacrificed like half the frog/bed mating area.

Maybe I've been a sucker for passing up planes that would be good workers. I've certainly used plenty with chips in that area, but when two big chunks are missing, I get to wondering.

[Sam Takeuchi]

For type 9, it needs those front legs resting on the base. Some earlier types had larger milled mating surfaces that didn't require those front legs resting on the base, but for type 9, it does need to have that part secured. Unlike earlier types, main milled surface is a narrow milled strip across the base and those front legs were supposed to form secure contact points. I don't know how this particular plane is like now, it might work ok, but I would be a bit concerned about this one even as a user. At worst, frog might be actually tipping forward, resting on the rib (it's the middle part that's sticking up from the base). So you should probably carefully assess the damage before you begin your major overhaul.

At least you can sell parts and get more than $25 you paid for.

[Chris Vandiver]

With that type of damage to the sole(lost supprt for the frog)that is, I'm sorry to say, a parts plane.

[Jim Koepke]

If you can find the proper base you will be okay.

Otherwise you may be able to save or sell the parts.

jtk

[Zach Dillinger]

Well, shows what I know about metal planes. :)

[James Taglienti]

Try it! The type 7 had just about as much contact under the frog and its "feet" ( or foot) hung in the air too

[steven c newman]

I checked where the frog will sit, stilll some metal underneath it. Do these planes have irons with a camber? iron in it right now has none, just straight edge. Lots of old red and black paint, along with some off-whaite sploches all over it. Cleaning that grooved bottom is proving to be a bit of work. Looked like a glob of asphalt was under the frog, what were they using this "Aircraft Carrier" of a plane for? I did get the lever cap, and the frog cleaned off. Seems to be a nice coat of black paint under the frog. What colour was these planes when new? Iron looks almost new, has a stamped "STANLEY" inside a "box", with a "Made in USA" underneath.

[Jim Koepke]

Do these planes have irons with a camber?

Camber is at the user's discretion. Some use it, some don't. A wide blade like on a #8 may have unintended camber from having to angle the blade on narrow stones. It might not be a perceivable camber. With .003" of camber to the edges, a shaving could be .005" in the center and .002" at the edge.

Currently my #8 has about .001" of unintended camber. Eventually I will just regrind the bevel if it gets to be more than wanted.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Getting things cleaned up. Blade will need a bit of work, due to a bad re-sharpening. All the rust is gone, as well. Pending on the iron getting sharpened, it's about ready to test drive. I better go and "work out" to get ready for that event.225396225397225398we're getting there....

[steven c newman]

Blade (iron) was butchered when someone else sharpened it, (before it was put up for sale,maybe?) The screw that holds the chipbreaker in place, is awfully short in the threads department. To start a thread, one must squeeze the chip breaker and iron together. Thinking og grinding a little of the mating area, just to make that task a little easier. Iron was ground "free-hand' into a hollow grind profile. I think I can grind a little bit better than what is there now. I did get almost (98%) of the chipped lever cap fixed. There IS some roughsawn Black Walnut out in the shop, maybe, just maybe a new set of handles for this Big Guy. Hmmmm?

[Joe Bailey]

The screw that holds the chipbreaker in place, is awfully short in the threads department. To start a thread, one must squeeze the chip breaker and iron together. Thinking og grinding a little of the mating area, just to make that task a little easier.


Here is the correct way to install chipbreaker to iron. start screw into backside of chipbreaker. Lay iron over chip breaker, (at right angles to chip breaker) by placing hole in iron over the head of the screw. Be sure bevel is facing away from the chipbreaker. Rotate the cap into position while sliding it back along the slot. Now tighten.

[steven c newman]

A better view of the mouth area, without all the rust225609225610 The frog sits on that centeral rib. The two screws are inbetween the rib and a cross-bar. Frog is very stable. I'm not sure IF you can see it, but someone stamped two letters into that side of the plane. "W" "R" I doubt if it stands for Wind River, though....

[Joshua Clark]

That era of Stanley plane had a very thin castings and often suffered damage to the body in that same place- where the casting is the thinnest. I've found many with cracked and chipped castings, some were usable, others weren't. I'm interested to know how your plane works out.

Josh

[steven c newman]

Will be out in the shop today. I have some Black Wlanut to mill into some knobs & totes. I'll take the big guy along ( handles are being made for it) and give it a test drive. Along with a couple others, the #8c will get a new set of handles. Bandsaw work, shaping by hand work, drilling, and even turning on my lathe (!!!!). What kind of finish goes with handles of Black Wlanut, anyway?

[Zach Dillinger]

Will be out in the shop today. I have some Black Wlanut to mill into some knobs & totes. I'll take the big guy along ( handles are being made for it) and give it a test drive. Along with a couple others, the #8c will get a new set of handles. Bandsaw work, shaping by hand work, drilling, and even turning on my lathe (!!!!). What kind of finish goes with handles of Black Wlanut, anyway?


Depends on what you're looking for. My recently-posted plow plane, made of walnut, now closely resembles rosewood. My finish was numerous coats of linseed oil followed by several coats of blonde shellac. Oil will darken the walnut significantly.

[george wilson]

If you are determined to save that plane,gut it and file up the broken mouth. Make it into an infill plane like Derek's,only longer,and with a tote. You could let the wood on the blade incline come right through the sole and be made flush with the bottom of the plane. That would close the throat,though it would not look conventional!

Zach,if you want a shellac finish that will not turn dull over time,get yourself some SEEDLAC. Preferably Siam Seedlac. It will stay shiny for many,many years. Something is lost when shellac is processed,and it will turn dull several years later. I have used Siam Seedlac 30 years ago,and it is still bright.

Lacquer is a better bet for you to easily find,and more available. I only use nitro cellulose myself,as acrylic has a "cool" look about it that I find boring. It has a blue resin base. Nitro has a yellow resin base. It has a much warmer look. Some otherwise fine guitars have acrylic finishes,but with it over rosewood,it just ruins the richness. Acrylic is a superior lacquer,in reality. You could make it look warm by carefully tinting it with yellow dye.

Someone will probably hoot,but shellac is the cheapest finish ever discovered,though I have used it,as well as seedlac for years due to authenticity needs. There are several kinds of seedlac. Kusmi is not as amber as Siam. I personally like the looks of the Siam better,but that depends upon what wood you are putting it on. I cannot recall other names right now as I'm tired. Seedlacs are hardly refined. They are full of crud from just being broken off the branches. You dissolve it in a jar,and carefully dip your brush so as to not disturb the crud. You could also filter it. I just carefully dip the brush so as to not lost any constituents when I use it.

I'm not a shellac expert,but spent several years preoccupied with trying out old oil varnish formulae,for making violins. My boss didn't see the point,but he was not a craftsman.

[steven c newman]

Spent some time out in the shop this evening, and took that #8c for a test drive225767 those are shavings of black Walnut. Not a single bit of "chatter' either. Why the Walnut? I was out there to make some handles, of course.225768Three knobs on the lathe. 225769 and one went on the #8c. As for the tote225770a test fit, still need a little more shaping, and a lot of sanding. The other knobs?225771225773 Knobs are in place on both the Defiance # 3, and the Great Neck #1 . The totes are test fits right now, I finish them up this weekend. The wood is Black Walnut ( and it STINKS when it is cut.)

[george wilson]

If it works,go with it. NEVER turn the plane over,and repeat 500 times "the sole is not broken." I had a first car,a 1950 Chevy,with rusty bumpers. The bodyman I served some with to learn some metal work said"paint them silver,and say over and over,'That's chrome',and you will believe it"!

[steven c newman]

Now the question is.... which plane to grab first?225972the #8c, or the #129 , nice to have a choice, isn't it?

[Zach Dillinger]

George, thanks for the tips on shellac finishes. I've located a source for Siam Seedlac and I'm submitting my order today. I'm fascinated by the old finishes. The same source has copal resin and dragons blood, which I've always wanted to try in a spirit varnish.

[Bill White]

Just another smarta$$ remark. Go to the gym. Get plenty of upper body workouts. That beast will wear ya out. It is one heavy plane.
Hope it works out.
Bill

[george wilson]

Zach,I don't advise you to waste your money on dragon's blood. It is a reddish powder,but I've not been able(nor have some other writers) to get more than a very light,pale tint out of it in solution.

Copal is a VERY generic term for a WIDE range of resins that go by the name. No telling what you'll really get when you order it. It will be SOME kind of copal,but if it's a GOOD kind,who knows. I haven't been concerned with varnishes since the early 80's,so I've forgotten a great deal,though I still have my old notebooks of experiments.

[Zach Dillinger]

I didn't order the copal or the dragons blood this time, just the seedlac. One new finishing medium at a time! Looking forward to trying the siam.

[Zach Dillinger]

I wonder what the 18th century violin makers knew about dragons blood that we don't, George. I've been reading different finishing handbooks from the past, including one on violin varnish. This text, by G. Foucher, says that dragons blood will impart a deep red color to violin varnish, not just a pale tint.

[steven c newman]

Last count: I have a Stanley #110 (re-hab knob) A H-F #33 ( can be used Bu or Bd), A Defiance #3 smoother, a Great Neck #1 ( size #4 stanley) smoother, a Stanley handyman #4 ( a VERY GOOD smoother) A Stanley #129 Fore plane ( also a re-hab) , and this BIG Bailey #8c, type 9. What plane is missing from this line up? I am planning another "Rust Hunt" so I want to be on the lookout for.......? Reminder, $$$ limit is UNDER $25. I don't mind doing a re-hab, either.

[Jim Koepke]

"Rust Hunt" so I want to be on the lookout for.......? Reminder, $$$ limit is UNDER $25. I don't mind doing a re-hab, either.

Maybe a #5 would be a good addition to your fleet.

You might also consider looking for bargains that can be rehabbed and then sold to raise more money for other tools.

jtk

[Greg Wease]

You seem to have the bench planes covered unless you want to upgrade what you have. You might think about a low-angle block plane with adjustable mouth (e.g. 60 1/2) and a #80 cabinet scraper.

I'd also be looking for planes to use for joinery such as a router plane and shoulder plane. It will be tough to stay under your $25 limit for these unless you get lucky.

[george wilson]

Zach,I have a 19th.C. book on violin making that also says that dragon's blood will give that dark red. I think those writers never made a violin,to tell the truth,really. He wrote"not the trash,the filthy stuff,the powder,but blood red CARBUNCLES of dragon's blood." Such impassioned writing!! I have never found these "carbuncles"of dragon's blood. Let me know if you do.:)

My book "Violin making as it was,and is",also states that making amber varnish is impossible,because the amber blows up at the temperatures required to fuse it. That is nonsense. I have made plenty of varnishes out of amber,and the writer apparently did not know that in the 19th.C.,amber floor varnishes were commercially made and sold.

Here's where the fallacy of amber varnish being impossible to fuse comes from,I think: When I first melted amber,it was coated with black carbon,and looked totally ruined. However,it was NOT. The amber melts,and releases smoke composed of succinic acid(sp?)(been a long time). After that,the black coating was so thin that it just disappears when you stir the melted amber. No trace of it. I think this blackening made some amateurs THINK that the amber was ruined.

I also have observed that after the smoke is released,the amber,if left to solidify,becomes just as soft(or maybe softer) than other resins. After you've melted the amber,it will go into solution when heated back up,with linseed oil,and thin with turpentine.

Another thing that the 19th.C. "experts" failed to notice,is that countries where amber is found,took small pieces,and fused them into trinkets to sell.

I have read MANY 19th. C. books on various subjects,and while you can glean useful,sometimes forgotten information,you must also be aware that there is plenty of bunk in some of those old sources. Often,these books were written by people who were regarded at that time as eminent,so their incorrect information was accepted as fact,without question.

For example,I tried out NUMEROUS old formulae. One was how to make a varnish for paper without using alcohol as the solvent for shellac. LYE was used as the solvent. Yes,the lye,dissolved in water digested the shellac. I brushed the digested shellac on some hand laid,quality paper. When it was dry,the paper had a coat of shellac,but also a coating of lye crystals all over it!! How long would it take for the lye to eat up the paper? A few months? Yes!! I had a SEALED bottle of dry tablets of sodium hydroxide from Fisher Chemical sitting in a cardboard box for some time. The lid had never been opened. There was a plastic sealing strip shrunk over the joint where the lid met the bottle. The bottle was brown glass. The cardboard box just fell apart,chunks of it coming off in my hand when I went to move it!

I don't know why I bothered to try some of those old formulas. Just to be thorough. I tried every formula that I could get the materials for.

Back in the 70's,some guy in Texas(I think) came up with a formula for violin varnish,which he thought was the real Cremona formula. It consisted of BEE'S WINGS dissolved in LYE!! The convoluted logic must have been that bee's wings buzz,so they ought to make a violin buzz!!:):):) The big problem was that the varnish DESTROYED GLUE. Now,on a thin violin,HOW are you going to use such varnish?

I wonder if the varnish also destroyed the performer's shirts(and chin),too. Well,that was a flash in the pan that I haven't heard much of since.

Bottom line: Some people can't think their way out of a paper bag,so be careful. And,some of these people are EMINENT. And frequently,they have an English accent. That accent goes a LONG WAY,especially in a museum.

[Jack Curtis]

It could be that dragon's blood could be alligator blood. I watched part of the "Wild China" series the other day, in which they talked about alligators and their demise; but the point is that they called these gators dragons.

[george wilson]

Unless I am not recalling correctly,dragon's blood is a resin from a palm tree. But,there are very many other things called dragon's blood. Could be that today's product might have been from a different source hundreds of years ago.

[Zach Dillinger]

George,

I'm with you 100% on some of these "eminent" experts. As if the weight of their name alone should be enough for a thinking man to suspend his thought process and just accept the expert's word as gospel. I like to try things for myself, especially when someone tells me I can't do something or that something won't work, and their explanation doesn't make sense or go along with my prior experiences. I've got the time to try this stuff out and the will to question the things that don't make sense to me.

I'm not sure what the "carbuncles" of dragons blood would be, but I did find some larger chunks of dragon's blood palm resin at a instrument repair shop ($12 for about 4 ounces... great deal!). They also had powder, but I bought the large chunks instead. I don't know if this is any different from what you've used in the past, but at least they are chunks, not just powdered.

Even though this is just for a plane, I believe in being thorough as well, since I'm interested in trying old varnish recipes for furniture use and this plane is a test bed of sorts. That's hilarious about the bee's wings buzzing, I can't believe anybody would make that connection!

I'm planning to go collect some cherry tree pitch this weekend, as the cherry trees at my mother's place are weeping. Pines and firs are too, even if the maple syrup season is coming to an end (too warm). I'd like to try some of that in finishes as well. Like I said, I always like to experiment!

Real world experience with this stuff is pretty darn rare, and I sure appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge and time.

EDIT: George, your PM box is full. I just tried to send you something.

[george wilson]

I collected sap from the pine trees where I lived 2 houses ago,and made varnish from them. I had to research when the best time of year to do it was. This was before the internet.

Zach,I cleared out a few messages from my PM box.