applied drawer fronts vs solid drawers

[joe milana]

Typically, kitchen drawers have applied drawer fronts, fine furniture has integrated drawer fronts. Why not do integrated drawer fronts for kitchen drawers? What would be some disadvantages of doing the integrated fronts? How about finishing techniques, order of assembly/finishing, etc.

[Sam Murdoch]

Typically, kitchen drawers have applied drawer fronts, fine furniture has integrated drawer fronts. Why not do integrated drawer fronts for kitchen drawers? What would be some disadvantages of doing the integrated fronts? How about finishing techniques, order of assembly/finishing, etc.

Yes! It is primarily a decision that favors production. Working within the tolerances for installing 5 piece drawer boxes vs 6 piece drawer boxes inset to a face frame is particularly challenging with the integrated front. Can be done but not real practical in the competitive world of cabinet manufacturing.

[Steve Griffin]

Here's a few disadvantages to ponder:
1) modern full extension, soft closing drawer slides won't work well. A drawer face hides the space they require either on the sides or bottom (or both for some slides)

2)Drawer boxes need to be full height, adding a great deal of unneeded material and labor to a job.

3)Finish work is complicated. Especially stains, which would need to be applied not just to a little drawer face, but and entire drawer box.

4)Tolerances are tighter. This is the least of the disadvantages. With modern tooling it's not to tough to build a box 1/8" smaller than openings.

5)Production standardization. Most cabinetmakers make all their insides the same.

6)Frame and panel drawer fronts are harder to make. Kitchens often have large drawers which lend themselves to frame and panel style, as opposed to solid slabs.

Having said all that, I've done integrated fronts in a number of ways over the years. One of the most successful methods was using blum tandems. I notched out the sides in the area of the slide about 1/8". The drawers had a couple inch space between them with no dividers--sort of like pantry pullouts only taller drawers. Tandems require about a 1/2" space under the drawer to work, so unless you do some radical notching out of the bottom and put the drawer floor up about an inch, you can't really do small gaps.

I've also used furniture style drawers (no drawer slides) on high end traditional looking vanities. Fit the drawer box in the openings well, add a stop so it doesn't fall out on the floor, buff with wax and it's amazing how nice these can operate.

[joe milana]

Seems like it's more of a "I proved I can do it" method, and adds no real value. By rabbeting the back side of a thick front, then using a half blind dovetail, the drawers could be used with undermounts. Also, painting or staining the fronts before dovetailing would be necessary, and one mistake means alot of wasted effort. Thanks for the replies.

[glenn bradley]

I would choose false fronts for a kitchen. I use crafted drawers in my furniture but, kitchen drawers are utility drawers. They will be used often and roughly. Face frames and false front drawers hide a multitude of loose tolerance sins that go with kitchens. I don't see a practical payback for the effort. A lingerie chest, dresser, buffet, etc.? Definitely a value-add for quality precision drawers there. Kitchens and shops? Not so much for me ;-)

[joe milana]

I would choose false fronts for a kitchen. I use crafted drawers in my furniture but, kitchen drawers are utility drawers. They will be used often and roughly. Face frames and false front drawers hide a multitude of loose tolerance sins that go with kitchens. I don't see a practical payback for the effort. A lingerie chest, dresser, buffet, etc.? Definitely a value-add for quality precision drawers there. Kitchens and shops? Not so much for me ;-)

Thanks Glen, makes sense. This project is a built in Amoire with flanking drawer & shelf units. It's a bedroom unit & will be painted. I want to avoid that "utilitarian" look by adding some "fine furniture" details. I thought the "crafted drawers" would be a nice touch. :confused:

[glenn bradley]

Thanks Glen, makes sense. This project is a built in Amoire with flanking drawer & shelf units. It's a bedroom unit & will be painted. I want to avoid that "utilitarian" look by adding some "fine furniture" details. I thought the "crafted drawers" would be a nice touch. :confused:Ah, I thought we were talkin' kitchens ;-) Bedroom furniture should be upper end for us grown-ups. I won't mention that I am just now replacing decades old IKEA stuff in my MBR :o. I don't use false fronts on finer furniture stuff but, there are many styles that do. I am more of an Arts & Crafts, Greene & Greene sort of fan so many of my drawers are inset. This may or may not hold with your style choice and inset drawers (especially piston-type) can become fussy over time on painted pieces . . . especially re-painted pieces, eh?

Rabbeted-partial-overlay or full-overlay drawers can be quite attractive. Quirts and cock beads can add a special touch of detail. False fronts work especially well for me if I am using mechanical slides; you make the box the requisite 1" narrower than the opening and the false front conceals the mechanisms. If the style demands, you can run into creative solutions like I used on a recent piece:

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[joe milana]

Love the A & C stuff. Don't think it works with paint, although I would like being proved wrong. I've got a TV stand on my to-do list, and You've inspired me. "piston fit drawers".....isn't that the stuff spoken of in theory only by dysfunctional wood shop teachers...:p

[Sam Murdoch]

Joe, I too thought you were asking about kitchen cabinetry :rolleyes:. If you are building furniture, take it up to the next level from the cupboards. Here is a simple way to build a 5 piece "dovetail drawer" with no special hand tools or jigs required. I have often used this method for connecting my drawer fronts to my sides and also, the backs to the sides. Looks cool, is rugged, and is pretty simple to do. ALSO, you can use a "finished" and other species wood as the drawer front with a baltic birch or soft wood box behind. I build my drawer boxes out of basswood. Anyway here are a few links :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVk_qHJaRL4
and http://www.wwgoa.com/articles/one-great-tip/making-sliding-dovetails/

Good luck. Sam

[joe milana]

Sam, this project lies somewhere between cabinetry & furnniture. Since it's a large built in piece, it's feeling a bit more like cabinetry than furniture, but I don't want it to look like we took cabinetry from the kitchen & used it in the bedroom. Drawer boxes with undermount slides and false fronts were feeling a bit out of place in the bedroom to me.

I like the sliding dovetail boxes. I've used the technique on vanities before. I've got access to plenty of basswood for a good price. I've always considered it "carving" wood. Do you think it's tough enough to use for large drawer boxes and go the distance?

[Sam Murdoch]

I have used basswood drawer boxes in all of my cabinetry since the early 90s . Used to use baltic birch ply. I have manufactured cabinetry with basswood drawers for very high end kitchens, baths and media centers etc. all approved by architects and satisfying to the clients. It is every bit as good as soft maple without any of the defects, more consistent in color, finishes very nicely and does not look like every other guy's drawer box. I use 1/4" or 1/2" prefinished maple ply for the bottoms depending on the size (primarily the width) and the intended load of the drawer box. So, YES to basswood, IMHO :)

[joe milana]

I have used basswood drawer boxes in all of my cabinetry since the early 90s . Used to use baltic birch ply. I have manufactured cabinetry with basswood drawers for very high end kitchens, baths and media centers etc. all approved by architects and satisfying to the clients. It is every bit as good as soft maple without any of the defects, more consistent in color, finishes very nicely and does not look like every other guy's drawer box. I use 1/4" or 1/2" prefinished maple ply for the bottoms depending on the size (primarily the width) and the intended load of the drawer box. So, YES to basswood, IMHO :)

That's good to know Sam. Guess I'll be picking some up to play with. I bet it's a dream to work with.

[Ole Anderson]

I have done them both ways, but the ones I most liked were without false fronts, but in this case I regretted not using Red Oak for the sides also. Big staining issues with the blind dovetails. Used premade wooden dovetail slides set under the bottom. These were both from my first major project (a computer hutch) several years ago, I have learned a lot since.

Here I used Poplar drawers, won't do that again, too green/yellow in color, been using Soft Maple lately, but I think I will try Basswood next time, thanks for the hint Sam. Basswood is slightly more than the Poplar, but definitely less than Soft Maple. How would Beech work? Seems to be in the same price range as Basswood. Ash has worked for me too, a little tougher to work with though, but in the Basswood price range.