MM16 Resaw Problems...

[Martin Shupe]

OK, I give up.

I have had a MM16 for 2 or possibly 3 years. It is rarely used, but I have had a quarter inch blade on it and used it to cut curves and pinewood derby cars. I have also used it, rarely, to resaw 4/4 material into halves, then planed it down for drawer sides and bottoms. In the past, the wood has not been very tall....3 or 4 inches max. I have done it free hand, by scribing a line, and cutting down the middle of the line. No problems on small wood.

Tonight it is obvious that the 1/4" blade is dull...the wood burns. I take off the blade and replace it with my Timberwolf 1/2 resaw blade. 3 TPI, I think. Now I am trying to resaw 6 inch "tall" material. I want to split it down the middle, so each half is 3/8 inch thick, then I can book match, and use it for the bottom of the Shaker tray I am working on. (Yes Tyler, pics later, I promise). I free hand the first piece, and while it tracks nicely on top, the bottom edge ends up thick on one side and thin on the other.

So...I try the fence. I line it up as best I can, and try again, holding the wood against the fence. Same thing happens...top looks good, bottom has one thick, one thin. I am talking one side is a half inch, and the other wavers between 5/16 on the thick part and 1/4 on the thin part.

So now I think I know how to fix it. I try my last piece of the same board of awesome curly cherry, (Yeah, I know, should have been using scrap to test it first.... :mad: ) This time I use a finger board to hold the bottom against the fence. Same result. Top edge looks good, bottom is thin on one side, thick on the other.

The initial thickness of the wood is 7/8 of an inch, so I have a little room for error, but my goal is a bottom that is 3/8 inch thick, bookmatched.

Also, the side closest to the fence is always the thin side, if that tells anyone what is wrong.

Gee, when I watched them demo the saw a couple years ago, they sliced pieces off that were 15 inches tall and perfectly even and flat.

Why can't I do that?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Brad Knabel]

I'm not an expert, but since no one else has chimed in just yet I'll try a couple of things that you probably checked, but didn't mention -

Are you sure that the table is perpendicular to the blade and are you sure that your fence is parallel to the blade (and perpendicular to the table). I'd also check both your upper and lower guides since you just changed blades.

Good luck - I'm sure somebody else will get things figured out for you if these suggestions don't.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi Martin, I know this is frustrating but it's in the set up not the saw. BTW I have the same saw and it's awesome. I do have a warped table and this can cause problems with resawing. Anyway, have you checked the blade being square to the table in the rear of the blade and side? Have you adjusted the fence for blade drift? Is your fence square to the table? And last thing is make sure that guides are properly adjusted. I like them on the snug side when resawing and the blade well tensioned. When resawing keep plenty of pressure against the fence and all should go well. BTW when you put the fence against the blade they should be exactly parallel. Good luck and keep trying.

[Bruce Page]

Martin, two things come to mind. First off and most obvious, is the table perfectly square to the blade? Second is blade tension. I tension my blades by backing off the upper & lower guides completely, next, I snug up the tension and raise the guide post all the way up, then, I turn on the saw and tension the blade, stopping when all blade fluttering is gone, then I back off the tension about half a turn. This method seems to get me the optimum tension for each blade.

[Martin Shupe]

Brad, I didn't think to check the blade perpendicular to the table, front or side...I just assumed it would be. I'll check that first.

Alan, I have not checked the fence square to the table, but I'll do that too. I did adjust it so it was parallel to the blade, but I have a question about that too. (see below)

Bruce, tension may also be a factor. I probably need to get a tension thingy from Iturra, but I was trying to save money. I set the guides, then set the tension. It seems to me you are saying loosen the guides, set the tension, then reset the guides. I'll give that a try.

I know it is a good saw, so it must be operator error. I am also told that timberwolf is a decent blade, so again, it must be my fault.

Of course, as Dr. McGrath always says, a poor workman blames his tools. I can't in this case, so it must be me.

OK, next question...

I have read from different sources to either adjust your fence for blade drift, or just adjust it for parallel to the blade. Can someone tell me which is correct? Or is it a pins vs tails thing? I have also seen tall fences, and I have also seen fences that are just a pivot point. I don't think I need a tall fence for 6 inches, but I would be interested to hear or see what others use for resawing.

And I promise I'll get some pics of the tray up when it is done.

Thanks again all.

[Carole Valentine]

Martin,
FWIW, I seem to have much better results resawing with a pivot fence (shop made and clamped to the table) unless I am doing really thin stuff. You don't really need to buy one of those fancy things for checking square...just use a good machinist square. That's all I use on my Delta and I have no problem. I do tension the blade a little hgher and snug down the guides when I resaw. I just cut some 1/8" walnut for inlay today and used the fence, but it is a pita to get that silly thing adjusted right.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Brad, I didn't think to check the blade perpendicular to the table, front or side...I just assumed it would be. I'll check that first.

Alan, I have not checked the fence square to the table, but I'll do that too. I did adjust it so it was parallel to the blade, but I have a question about that too. (see below)

Bruce, tension may also be a factor. I probably need to get a tension thingy from Iturra, but I was trying to save money. I set the guides, then set the tension. It seems to me you are saying loosen the guides, set the tension, then reset the guides. I'll give that a try.

I know it is a good saw, so it must be operator error. I am also told that timberwolf is a decent blade, so again, it must be my fault.

Of course, as Dr. McGrath always says, a poor workman blames his tools. I can't in this case, so it must be me.

OK, next question...

I have read from different sources to either adjust your fence for blade drift, or just adjust it for parallel to the blade. Can someone tell me which is correct? Or is it a pins vs tails thing? I have also seen tall fences, and I have also seen fences that are just a pivot point. I don't think I need a tall fence for 6 inches, but I would be interested to hear or see what others use for resawing.

And I promise I'll get some pics of the tray up when it is done.

Thanks again all.


Nope, don't adjust the fence parallel to the blade. Adjust the fence for blade drift. Do a search for blade drift if you aren't familiar with this adjustment; it's easy. I would suggest you search for all relevant posts on resawing and do more general research on this. You will be a lot less frustrated in the end. Alan in Md.

[Steven Wilson]

blade tension and guide settings. You may want to consider a 1" blade (greater beam strength).

[Michael Perata]

Gee, when I watched them demo the saw a couple years ago, they sliced pieces off that were 15 inches tall and perfectly even and flat.

Why can't I do that?


Martin

When you saw them demo the MM16 and resaw a piece 12" tall they WERE NOT USING A TIMBERWOLF BLADE.

Get rid of your TW. Use the Olsons that came with the saw and crank it up to 30,000PSI or get a 1/2" 3/4" or 1" Lennox Trimaster and crank them up to 28-30,000psi. Your saw will take the load, that's why you bought it.

It ain't the saw, it is the blade. TWs work fine on toy BS, not on MM16s.

[Tom Pritchard]

Hi Martin, sorry to hear you are having trouble!

I also own a MM16, and had the same thing happen. It turned out that my lower guide had loosened up and was pushing the blade below the table towards the fence while the upper guide was fine. This is hard to find because the upper guide controls the blade where it enters your workpiece and everything looks fine. Check that lower guide for adjustment, and then do a quick check with a square from the tabletop to the blade. I'm betting that lower guide moved and got you! Let us know what you find. Good luck!

[Mark Singer]

Martin,
Most things I can think of have been mentioned. The blade must be perpendicular to the table, and the fence perpendicular to the table and parallel to the blade.. Check it with a square . You should joint both edges of the board. This will allow the bottom to glide easily over the table. Check the blade guides....loose them and with the blade tensioned, bring the guides against each side evenly and tighten them. The 1/4" blade is not really a great resaw blade. You should use a minium of a 1/2" with 3 or 4 tpi . I use a 1" Lenox Trimaster . The tension should be pretty taught for resawing....but on a 1/4" blade don't over do it!. It is also helpful to use a feather board or to keep the bottom of the board firmly against the fence, then you just have to watch the top.. I use the fence that came with the saw. If your blade drifts, you should use a point fence, or parallel the fence to the drift. You do this by running a board through...stop the cut and mark the angle of the line. Set the fence to that angle...A really good resaw blade will not drift. When you push the board go slow. The blade is avery important part of the problem, since it is doing the cutting...you are not getting the most out of the saw with a poor blade.

[Jim Becker]

Martin, in addition to the other advice, make sure your 1/2" blade is tracked such that the teeth are just off the wheels. This is important on the MM16 with its flat tires so that you don't "adjust" the set on one side of the blade when you put it under tension and run it. (This is different than the average 14" bandsaw with crowned tires)

[Bruce Page]

Martin, the tensioning method that I described was told to me by a MM rep and yes, you set the guides after you have tensioned the blade. I was told that if I used this method I would not need a fancy tension gauge. It has worked well for me.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Man Martin, you've got a lot of good advice already. The only thing I could add is use a feather board. One as tall as the piece you are resawing would be good, but even one from the tablesaw will help a lot.

[Mark Singer]

The MM16 has the shallow miter slot I think....you need to use the Grip Tight magnetic ones I suggested. I have a pic of it somewhere...
Martin, check this....http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=13075&stc=1


Man Martin, you've got a lot of good advice already. The only thing I could add is use a feather board. One as tall as the piece you are resawing would be good, but even one from the tablesaw will help a lot.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

The MM16 has the shallow miter slot I think....you need to use the Grip Tight magnetic ones I suggested. I have a pic of it somewhere...
Martin, check this....http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=13075&stc=1


Mark, My Bench Dog brand plastic feather boards fit just fine in my MM16 table. I use them all the time and they work great. Alan in Md.

[Steve Inniss]

Martin,
Perhaps we should do a poll here with the number of responses.

I would click the radio button next to: lower guides not adjusted

-Steve

[Sam Blasco]

Sounds like you guys have covered all of the bases for suggestions. The miter slot is 3/4 x 3/8, standard american size. I use my grandfathers old craftsman miter gauge with it all the time. I also use the Grip-tites all the time, too.
The major key, once the saw is fine tuned is a good face-jointed & edge-jointed starting point. Then you can slice veneers one right after the other or resaw to dimension. The most important point of pressure is to the fence, before the blade, especially with multiple cut offs of the same board. That way any anomalies that develope, with regard to square, will be minimized and easily cleaned up on a jointer. On pieces less than 24" I don't rely on any third hand support, but on longer boards a good feather-board with infeed and outfeed support are essential. I have made stacking feather-boards that I can just keep adding to a dowel, depending on the height of board for resawing, and the Grip-tites work excellently for parts dimensioning.

Martin, don't forget you can always call in and talk to someone at Mini Max if the adjustments have you befoozled.

Hope this helps. What a great wealth of information and good will is found here at SMC.

[Jim Becker]

befoozled
Did you bring that one from Miami or is that something you learned after moving to Austin?? :D

[Martin Shupe]

Wow, what a response! Thanks to all who answered, as there were many great suggestions.

Here is what I found...

1. I put my LV straight edge on the table, and it appears to be flat.

2. I put a square on the back of the blade, and it is square to the table.

3. I put a square on the "outboard" side of the blade and it was perfectly square.

4. I put a square on the "inboard side" of the blade, and it was just a little off...not sure why, but this was before I loosened the guides, so that may have been a contributing factor...I need to check this again, now that I think of it.

5. I put a square to my fence, and it was not square...not sure how to adjust it, but I shimmed it for now...shouldn't this have an adjustment? Maybe it is time for me to build a shop built fence.

6. Several of you mentioned the lower guides, and I think you were correct. I loosened both upper and lower guides, and then tightened the blade as tight as I could, then backed it off a little. I think Bruce told me how to do this...thanks Bruce. Then I reset the guides so they barely touched the blade on each side. Personally, I think this was the key fix for my problem.

7. Initially, I did not use a feather board, but now I am using a Bench Dog board which fits nicely into the slot with no problems.

8. I will look at moving up to a better blade when the Timberwolf gets dull. I don't do a whole lot of resawing right now, mainly sawing boards for bookmatching drawer bottoms and drawer sides. I think if I was making 1/8 inche veneer panels, I would buy the better blade now.

9. I was jointing/planing the sides parallel before slicing, and also jointing the bottom edge square to the sides.

Again, thanks for all the help. I really appreciate all the great responses.

[Steve Jenkins]

Martin, if you want you can borrow my tensioning gauge. You only have to use it one time then you will know where on your scale you should be. If you want it stop by.