Bench saw options.

[john davey]

I need a little advice on a bench saw. I am currently recovering from knee replacement surgery on my left knee. The right knee was overhauled several years ago. Needless to say I am not really a fan of saw benches and the kneeling I do on them. I do have a pair of 26" saws. One rip and one cross cut but they are difficult for me at the bench. My other saws consist of the Veritas carcass saw set and their dovetail saw. The carcass saws are fine for smaller work but if I am going to do more cutting at the bench I need a little bigger saw. I've been debating the half back or a 20" panel saw as an option for this. I build mostly smaller stuff and do not usually have a board on the bench over 4~6 foot long by 8 inches wide. Also almost always 4/4. I am going to use one of those new fangled devices with tails we don't talk about here for ripping so what I am more concerned with is cross cutting boards. Maybe just a larger CC tenon saw??? I will be adding a larger RIP tenon saw at some point for bigger jointery but will not do it until I have a project with that need. Hey, Maybe Veritas will finally release their new larger tenon saw and solve all of my problems :).... Thanks, john...

[Ron Bontz]

Veritas larger tenon saw? What, Huh? I have been looking real hard at that half back saw because it is compact but still has a good hefty plate thickness. I also just started building my first saw bench in the middle of everything else. So I'll be interested in what folks think as well. Thanks for asking.

[David Weaver]

I personally would get any vintage saw in the 22-26" range that has 11 teeth per inch or more. 12 is a nice number.

If the teeth are bad, find someone with a tooth puncher to repunch them for it, at that size, you won't lose much depth.

I don't know where the advantage of a half back saw is over a plain panel saw, though they do look prettier.

[James Owen]

A 20" cross-cut panel saw would probably work pretty well.

I'm not a big fan of using a full sized saw on a work bench. For me, the combination of my height (6'), the height of my bench (34"), and the height and length of the saw make trying to cross-cut or rip on my work bench rather clumsy, and a lot more work than it should be.

If you already have a saw bench, you might consider drilling some strategically-placed 3/4" holes, and using holdfasts to keep your wood in place while you're sawing. This largely eliminates the need to kneel on your bench to hold the wood. Yes, it is a little slower, but a lot easier on your knees.....

[Jim Koepke]

There are a lot of options to work with the limits our bodies impose due to age or injury. My body has both.

For cross cutting a bench hook/bench miter is a good option with a back saw of sufficient length.

Doing a long rip at the bench is difficult but doable. Better could be a saw bench built to a height that doesn't require kneeling on the work. When I am ripping longer pieces I often sit on the work to hold it. Chris Schwarz demonstrated a similar method on the Woodright's Shop using the saw upside down. This works but is a bit awkward in the handle area. I have thought of making a handle for a rip saw to use upside down.

Sounds like a project for my next saw rebuild.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

I'd go 20"panel saw over a halfback (or anywhere from 18-22"). Mine is 9ppi, but I'd be fine with up to 12ppi for bench work. I personally think that the half back is unnecessary. Shorter panel saws are actually plenty stiff enough on their own for bench work/at a bench hook.

A largerish 14" or 16" xcut back saw is very nice to have to and if you rarely will be xcutting anything wider than 6" may be preferred. Its a saw that will see a lot of work with both joinery and xcutting pieces to length.

[john davey]

The half back idea came from watching a Ron Herman video where he used one at the bench. Not really interested in pretty saws but if it worked I would spring for it. I'll see if I can track down an old 20" panel saw for the cheap in need of a fix up and give it a whirl....John

[Chris Griggs]

The half back idea came from watching a Ron Herman video where he used one at the bench. Not really interested in pretty saws but if it worked I would spring for it. I'll see if I can track down an old 20" panel saw for the cheap in need of a fix up and give it a whirl....John

I definitely see the appeal, and have always kinda wanted one. However, as I started using my panel saw at the bench, I was no longer convinced that the half back would necessary have any advantage, so it is no longer on my wishlist. Haven't used a half-back though so I can't say for sure.

[Andy Margeson]

A Millers Falls Acme miter box with a 28" backsaw is perfect for your application. 8" is no problem.

[Mike Holbrook]

I have a half back I made from a Wenzloff kit. Like Chris says a small panel saw will do about the same thing. The sawing position is very different on the half back, which I find requires lighter hand pressure. It almost feels like the handle is on top of the saw compared to a panel saw. It is a little stiffer comparatively. The big thing to me is how well the saw is sharpened. My new 14" Gramercy Sash, back saw at 13 ppi out cuts my half dull & dull larger toothed auction saws, at least until I get better at sharpening. I talked to the guy at Gramercy who sharpens a good number of their saws, he is obviously very good at his work. I had the Wenzloff blade, 10 ppi, sharpened by Wenzloff so it cuts very well too. The Miller Falls Langdon Miter box I have with a 26" fairly sharp mitre saw is the fastest, especially with larger pieces. At the moment I have to clear a large open place on my bench for the Mitre box and set her up which takes time. You need some room to work a 26 to 28" mitre saw that is perpendicular to the floor sitting in a 20" mitre box. Once I build a permanent saw station for it...

For smaller cutting jobs I think you will like whatever you are more comfortable using the best, assuming it is good & sharp. I tend to like the thin lighter saws as I used very thin flexy Silky folding saws almost exclusively for a few years. Every time I use one of my 26" hand saws and go back to the lighter saws I find I have to lighten up my sawing style.

A sharp 14 or 16" back saw is the easiest to use on a work bench and the stiff back is the most forgiving if you apply too much pressure the wrong way while learning. If you have a physical problem using a low saw bench I am thinking you might like a back saw. The handle position on a half back saw generally works better if you are over the saw more, which is more of a characteristic of sawing at saw benches than sawing at a work bench. Unfortunately it is harder to find a good 14-16" back saw at auctions.

[john davey]

Well, to be clear I don't really have a saw bench. Sadly I use a 5 gal bucket turned upside down with a hunk of plywood on it. So the dog hole trick isn't going to work. Thanks for the idea though :)

[john davey]

Well, I got a 20" panel saw from Mike here at SMC. It came nice and sharp and really is working well. I have to get on my sharpening skills now though as I cluelessly hit a friggin nail with it last night cutting something quickly without thinking. MORON! Anyway I think I like this saw and the Price was really good so I am happy.

[Chris Griggs]

Well, I got a 20" panel saw from Mike here at SMC. It came nice and sharp and really is working well. I have to get on my sharpening skills now though as I cluelessly hit a friggin nail with it last night cutting something quickly without thinking. MORON! Anyway I think I like this saw and the Price was really good so I am happy.

I assume you mean mike allen. I have a 26" xcut that he rehabbed. He does a fantastic job on both the cleanup and filing. I was very very impressed by the professional level of his work.

[Randy Clements]

Not to raise any hairs, but have you ever used an eastern style saw? There are a series of "askwoodman.tv" videos on Youtube that shows how he clamps work up on his table and uses the pull saws to pull downward starting on the closest side of the work. Western saws you start on the far corner of the work, typically. You can also do long rips by putting the board on low horses and walking on top of it while you pull up and cut, walking backwards. Shuffling the feet as you go...

You already have some great western saws, so you're probably not looking for different equipment/style of work. But it was a thought.

[john davey]

Yes Chris. Mike Allen. The saw was perfect when I got it. Randy. I have tried pulling a saw and it is a little weird to me It was a cheapo pull saw from the Borg though. I am sure I could get used to it but walking on a board pulling a saw sounds to me like a missing toe as I am such a klutz :)

[Randy Clements]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKByZ2ty6nc&list=PLD995661120B20FEB&index=2&feature=plpp_video

Yeah I don't like the sound of ripping necessarily standing on a board. However, the crosscut stuff seems to work well using the front of the bench. Pulling down into the bench secures the work... Anyhow, I'm sure you know best. Just posted the video so others could see what I was talking about.

[john davey]

Thanks Randy. My initial problem with the sawbench is my bad knees. Looks like he kneels on the ground to do that which I can't do anymore :(.

On another note do you by chance know what the model of the ratcheting clamp he is using? That looks like a great clamp to use at the bench to hold things in place. Thanks, John

[David Weaver]

I'd still like to give standing on a board a try for ripping, I just haven't set up anything to do it yet. It's not uncommon that I might rip several 4 foot sections of medium hardwoods in the shop, which is long enough that you can't buzz through it in 10 seconds. That's the kind of stuff I don't like having to shuffle around to be below a board. Ripping a board under my foot might be more comfortable than doing that on a sawbench, without being slower.

[Randy Clements]

On another note do you by chance know what the model of the ratcheting clamp he is using? That looks like a great clamp to use at the bench to hold things in place. Thanks, John

It's a Bessey rapid action lever clamp. http://www.woodcraft.com/PRODUCT/2081170/30653/BESSEY-8-X-4-RAPID-ACTION-LEVER-CLAMP-MODEL-LC8.ASPX?refcode=10INGOPB&gclid=CKHe6qKP2K4CFcx66wodGTOWBg

The Woodman says that your C-clamps will go unused once you pick up some of these. Wish they weren't so expensive! :)

[john davey]

Yup, I like my C clamps a little better after seeing that price. Although one left on the bench for holding might be worth it somehow :)

[David Weaver]

I'm not sure I understand why he didn't just make that cut in a vise.

[Mike Holbrook]

Looks like he is using his own, home made, version of a Festool MFT table, has no conventional vise. The MFT tables are covered with a grid of 3/4" holes, on which, a selection of clever Festool clamps will hold just about any shaped object. If you look at the clamp holding the jig he is cutting on, it is the very similar Festool quick clamp that Festool has made for a very long time. I thought Festoll's price was bad, but it is $10 less than the Bessey.