Why I won't be around here any more.....

[Larry Edgerton]

"I frequently watch Holmes on Homes and feel terrified at the thoughts of trusting a contractor to do any work on my house."


"It's not often you find a contractor-type that understands beyond his rules of thumb... they exist, but they're a rare bird. If he doesn't even understand the concept of hot air rises, it's best to let sleeping dogs lie... "

"Few particle physicists change careers to work in construction."


These are comments just today about contractors that I find offensive. This attitude that is as common as not on this forum is the reason that I will not be posting here any more. I am tired of the generalizations and resent by inference being accused of being a crook and a half wit.

Its not just today, but every time the subject of contractors comes up. Internet intellectuals. I have had enough....



Later, Larry

[Stephen Cherry]

Why not take a break Larry- I've read a bunch of your posts and always thought you brought up good issues, and have helped a lot of peaple out.

[Tim Boger]

"I frequently watch Holmes on Homes and feel terrified at the thoughts of trusting a contractor to do any work on my house."
"It's not often you find a contractor-type that understands beyond his rules of thumb... they exist, but they're a rare bird. If he doesn't even understand the concept of hot air rises, it's best to let sleeping dogs lie... "

"Few particle physicists change careers to work in construction."

These are comments just today about contractors that I find offensive. This attitude that is as common as not on this forum is the reason that I will not be posting here any more. I am tired of the generalizations and resent by inference being accused of being a crook and a half wit.

Its not just today, but every time the subject of contractors comes up. Internet intellectuals. I have had enough....



Later, Larry




So you know ..... the sentiment you've noted is not unique to any one forum. I work at a motorcycle shop and know first hand the challenges we face trying to fix peoples junk, I also see the actual hours we work (twice as much )vs how much we actually charge. Yet darn near every rider on the forum is an excellent technician and quick to insist that all the dealers are rip-offs. I've tryed to share what I know and how their collective knowledge and accusations are not fair to all dealers but it does not change.

Don't take it personally, if your good at what you do ...... just grin and bear it.

[Mike Henderson]

For what it's worth, the contractors I've worked with have been quite competent and knowledgeable about their trade. Other people may have had less satisfactory experiences and generalize to all contractors. And people who have had a bad experience are much more vocal than those who've had a good experience.

And like it or not, we humans tend to generalize. So if we've had a bad experience with a contractor, we tend to lump all contractors into the same bucket. It's not fair but that's the way we are.

I can only encourage you to not take those comments personally but to consider what's probably behind them.

Mike

[Michael Weber]

I read that comment and I agree with Larry that it was out of line and insulting to the contractor he was bashing and the rest was insulting to contractors in general. We're all ignorant. Just in different areas. I hope Larry will reconsider. Please?

[Don Jarvie]

Here's the way I look at it Larry. If I see a topic that I have either undertaken that task or can provide helpful advice I do. Hopefully the poster asking the question can use my advice, if not Oh well. Maybe someone searching will find the information useful.

I encourage the experts who do reply to a particular post to give information. If the poster doesn't want to heed it then thats their problem.

I encourage you to keep participating if you can help. I always appreciate everyones 2 cents if I heed it or not.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I hope you'll reconsider, Larry - I always enjoy seeing when you've posted, because I know I'll learn something from it.

[Ted Calver]

Over two thousand posts and you're packing it in?? I would have thought you learned how to laugh that kind of stuff off by now. C'mon Larry you're gonna give contractors a bad name. Stick it out!!

[Sam Murdoch]

Besides which have you ever known a particle physicists that you would trust to build your house or change the oil in your truck for that matter? There are those who do and those who criticize - I'd rather hang out with the doers! :rolleyes:

[David Weaver]

You've got to decide when you read something you don't like whether or not it's going to bother you.

As you said, everywhere you go, the same thing comes up each time contractor's are mentioned.

So if you like the creek otherwise, why bother leaving? If you don't like anything else about it, by all means, nobody makes anyone log in to any forum.

The only thing I can't figure out about forum posts where someone tells everyone they're leaving, why even bother with the post that you're leaving? unless you want to take the opportunity to violate the TOS one time just because it won't matter what the consequences are.

[Marty Paulus]

Larry,

Unfortunately this economy has spawned a boat load of 'contractors'. Anyone with a hammer and nail pouch is now a contractor. Those are the guys that give real craftsman a bad name. It is typical that the few spoil it for the many. I for one look forward to reading your posts. I know I have learned from them just as many others have. The fact you are a fellow Michigander is a bonus. Reading some of the jobs you have taken on is impressive. If you stop posting I would understand based on some of the comments that generalize contractors. I would be disappointed but I would understand.

[Steve Griffin]

I just finished reading a Winnie the Pooh book to our 3 year old, and had to chuckle with the contractor stereotype of gopher. He showed up with fast talk and high prices to help poor Pooh stuck in the hole....

Attitudes about contractors and those who work with their hands are not the most flattering in this country. But rest assured, there are many like me on this forum who have great respect for the trades. I certainly have heard far more bad client tales than bad contractors stories....

The best thing to do is not care what some ungracious and cynical posters type. Remember that those who have a more positive attitude and reasonable social skills are the majority, and often the quietest.

[Steven Green]

Steve Green < Retired contractor
Larry I've heard all of the armchair critics over the years say the same thing time and again. Yes it's offensive, yes it's ignorant, and yes it upsets me every time it happens. I also heard the same thing when I was "Just a carpenter". People don't think before they spew mostly and as a rule that spew is something that belongs in the toilet. Let the roof blow off their home or some other disaster befall them and watch how quick they scream for a professional. I've broken many bones, have a for real case of arthritis and other ailments directly related to me pounding my body as hard as we pound nails. The bulk of them have no idea what it takes to get a project from the customers gray matter into a real building. Let me just suggest you consider the source and leave it at that.

[Brian Kent]

Larry,

I apologize for our stupidity. And our carelessness.

I have a big problem in my congregation that all of the lawyers are really quality people so I can't use my lawyer jokes.

We just finished a new building with a contractor named Mark Miller, whom I would recommend to anyone. I now call on him when I need work done at home, because his commission is much smaller than the cost and hassles of not having someone with knowledge and experience in charge.

Thank you for your excellent work.

Brian

[Ryan Mooney]

Larry,

I would say that there are contractors and then there are Contractors. You're a Contractor, don't let comments from the peanut gallery about contractors bother you, the two aren't even in the same realm.

I've groused about lousy work I've seen done by people who called themselves contractors and I bet you have as well as you've come along behind them to clean up - however when I see someone who actually is a real Contractor I appreciate them that much more and well.. Yeah. That's about it..

Besides we're all going to wonder how that school house remodel and the greenhouse turn out and how the heck will we find that out if you leave??!?! :D

[Jimmy Edwards]

Larry, how do you think it feels to be a trial lawyer like me?

[Brian Kent]

A pastor, a lawyer, and a contractor walk into a bar, and the bar tender says, "What is this, some kind of joke?"

[Dan Hintz]

"It's not often you find a contractor-type that understands beyond his rules of thumb... they exist, but they're a rare bird. If he doesn't even understand the concept of hot air rises, it's best to let sleeping dogs lie... "

As the person who made this particular quote, I stand by it. I have had the opportunity over the years to meet and work with a great number of contractors... some were top notch and I wouldn't argue against a single thing they said. Unfortunately, the larger percentage of that group could be termed "capable" in the best of times, and mostly used (often poor) experience rather than sound principles to solve problems. If the simple concept of "hot air rises" is beyond their comprehension (and any contractor who works with air handling should understand such a concept), I have to seriously question anything that comes out of their mouths from that point forward.

I don't take offense when people call engineers penny-pinching idiots, as that opinion comes from their direct contact with other engineers... it doesn't describe me (I hope), and I'll do what I can to change their belief.

I'm sure I'll catch flak for it, considering the posts so far, but if your skin is so thin as feel the need to leave because of a few comments, well... get over it. Take your ball and go home if you must, but a better idea is to stick around and try to change people's opinions. Be one of those rare birds I mention.

[Mike Cutler]

Larry

I enjoy your posts and insights, some of which have helped me accomplish things correctly around the house. I have always found the folks on this forum that are involved in the building trades, and actual cabinet makers, to be a huge resource.
Take a break from it, the forum, and hopefully you'll realize that for every negative you have encountered, you're experience and insight have helped many more than that.
We all come with a skill set that we can share.

[Todd Burch]

It was my thread that 2 of Larry's quote came from. When I called the person I was having a conversation with a "roofer", I was being a bit too generous. He was a salesman for a roofing company. (Now, all the salesmen can chime in.... ;) )

We had a severe hail storm in my neighborhood the early part of January. Everyone now needs a new roof here. Since then, I have had over 30 (yes, thirty) solicitations from roofing salesmen wanting to put a roof on my house. It's comical. Trucks going up and down the street, all day, every day. Salesmen with out of state license plates even. 60+ year old women calling of the phone wanting to schedule an appointment to discuss my roof needs. The other day I was walking the dog and from where I stood, I could see 5 roofs being replaced at the same time - and two of these roofing companies I have first hand experience with as them being terrible companies to do business with (one of them flooded my sister-in-law's house when they broke a water pipe in the attic and said "not my problem").

Roofer salesmen must make some serious bucks as aggressive as they are around here. And the salesmen I lucked into just happened to hit a nerve with me in his fast talking and I started pushing buttons.

Larry mentioned in that thread it was comical to him too, and now he's leaving. Maybe he needs a break? I was in the first wave of folks to join here when Badger Pond was shutting down. I enjoyed this forum immensely for a long time, but at one point, I needed to take a break. I was burnt out (extremely burnt out) on helping for naught. So, I took a few years off. Now, I'm back, and enjoying it again. Perhaps Larry is burnt out too. Perhaps some time away will bring him back with a fresh outlook. The forum will continue regardless - it certainly did while I was away.

Todd

[Larry Edgerton]

As the person who made this particular quote, I stand by it. I have had the opportunity over the years to meet and work with a great number of contractors... some were top notch and I wouldn't argue against a single thing they said. Unfortunately, the larger percentage of that group could be termed "capable" in the best of times, and mostly used (often poor) experience rather than sound principles to solve problems. If the simple concept of "hot air rises" is beyond their comprehension (and any contractor who works with air handling should understand such a concept), I have to seriously question anything that comes out of their mouths from that point forward.

I don't take offense when people call engineers penny-pinching idiots, as that opinion comes from their direct contact with other engineers... it doesn't describe me (I hope), and I'll do what I can to change their belief.

I'm sure I'll catch flak for it, considering the posts so far, but if your skin is so thin as feel the need to leave because of a few comments, well... get over it. Take your ball and go home if you must, but a better idea is to stick around and try to change people's opinions. Be one of those rare birds I mention.

Dan

You are right, I should not be so thin skinned. Everyone has off days, and yesterday was one of mine. Actually yesterday I lost a nice house to one of the contractors that you discribe, great talker with no talent, nice office with pretty pictures but no tools or the knowledge or experiance to use them. So yes I was in a bad mood.

The thing is in the thread in question, both you and the OP are mistaken. There is much more to ventilating a roof that the simple law of thermodynamics that "Heat Rises". You have to create a continous blanket of air that starts by pulling in relitively cool air at the bottom and in as close to a sheet as can be flows to the top picking up heat on its way until it is expelled by whatever means employed. More than one exit creates confusion in the air flow and does indeed cause hot spots. More is not always more.

In this case the second contractor that brought this up was correct. For his efforts to make a system that works he is belittled on the internet by someone that has done no research on the subject other than knowing that hot air rises.

I do enjoy waking up in the morning with my coffee and reading what others are doing, helping when I can, and getting others take on tools that I do not own. I have noticed an absense of pros lately, and I really miss their input as these are the guys I learn from. This is not my hobby, this is how I make a living. I have spent my whole life building beautiful things that will be around long after I am gone, things that I like to think will be restored rather than replaced.

Some contractors do that......

Larry

[Myk Rian]

Another forum on the net is so full of mis-information and bashing, the only reasons I go there is to belittle the mis-informed.

Makes for a chuckle-a-day.

[John Shuk]

I'm glad you are staying.

[Paul McGaha]

I hope you continue to post Larry. Share your thoughts with us. I find them interesting as I'm sure many do. .

I've worked for electrical contractors since 1977. No they're not all idiots. Or thieves. Or whatever else contractors are routinely accused of.

Same with other fields I'm sure. Lawyers, Engineers, etc.

PHM




Dan

You are right, I should not be so thin skinned. Everyone has off days, and yesterday was one of mine. Actually yesterday I lost a nice house to one of the contractors that you discribe, great talker with no talent, nice office with pretty pictures but no tools or the knowledge or experiance to use them. So yes I was in a bad mood.

The thing is in the thread in question, both you and the OP are mistaken. There is much more to ventilating a roof that the simple law of thermodynamics that "Heat Rises". You have to create a continous blanket of air that starts by pulling in relitively cool air at the bottom and in as close to a sheet as can be flows to the top picking up heat on its way until it is expelled by whatever means employed. More than one exit creates confusion in the air flow and does indeed cause hot spots. More is not always more.

In this case the second contractor that brought this up was correct. For his efforts to make a system that works he is belittled on the internet by someone that has done no research on the subject other than knowing that hot air rises.

I do enjoy waking up in the morning with my coffee and reading what others are doing, helping when I can, and getting others take on tools that I do not own. I have noticed an absense of pros lately, and I really miss their input as these are the guys I learn from. This is not my hobby, this is how I make a living. I have spent my whole life building beautiful things that will be around long after I am gone, things that I like to think will be restored rather than replaced.

Some contractors do that......

Larry

[John Coloccia]

I hope you continue to post Larry. Share your thoughts with us. I find them interesting as I'm sure many do. .

I've worked for electrical contractors since 1977. No they're not all idiots. Or thieves. Or whatever else contractors are routinely accused of.

Same with other fields I'm sure. Lawyers, Engineers, etc.

PHM

Us engineers (and former engineers) take quite a beating too...for good reason, often times.

[Myk Rian]

Us engineers (and former engineers) take quite a beating too...for good reason, often times.
Being a Tradesman, don't get me started on Engineers I've worked with. :)

[Steve Jenkins]

I always remember the time I was told by a client that "Some of us work with our minds and some of you have to work with your hands" My reply was "Yes and some of us can do both"

[Matt Meiser]

Being a Tradesman, don't get me started on Engineers I've worked with. :)

Or me being an engineer, some of the Tradesman. :D

There's good ones and bad ones in every field. Sometimes the worst ones are the most credentialed.

[Stephen Cherry]

Being a Tradesman, don't get me started on Engineers I've worked with. :)

Oh no, now it's the engineers turn. Well I'm one of them and I can tell you that in a normal engineering project, 90 percent of the work will be done by 10 percent of the people, and all of the hard work will be done by just a select few. Over half could not engineer their way out of a wet paper bag.

Also, as an aside, I got my first engineering job because my boss liked that while in college I worked as a lawn mower mechanic. And another aside, some of the most technically analytical people I have ever met have had little or no formal engineering education.

One thing I can say for sure, it's a different world now. Remember Popular Mechanics magazine? People used to actually read that.

[paul cottingham]

It's true in any field. I am made insane by the preponderance of computer and networking experts in the world. We used to make a very good living cleaning up from all the experts here in Victoria. I should have charged extra every time I heard "my son/son in law/boyfriend/husband knows a lot about computers, it should be really easy to fix especially if he helps you." I would be as rich as Bill Gates.

[ray hampton]

Paul, may I thank you for standing with us

[paul cottingham]

Hmmm. Sarcasm?

[Larry Frank]

I think that it is unfortunate that some people have to brand a particular group of people ( contractors, engineers, roofers, lawyers, etc) as all being the same. There are some very good and some very worthless in every group.

The one thing that I do know is that people are always trying to get something at the lowest cost and expect the best job. With contractors, you kind of get what you pay for. Good work is not cheap as it takes time and good materials. With any kind of contractor, one needs to shop around and talk with other people who have used the contractor.

I like using contractors which are established in my area for a long time and have a reputation that they want to keep up. I have had a couple of major renovations and additions done in the last ten years and have used the same contractor with the same great results. He is certainly not the cheapest but is the best and makes everything right.

People who hire a contractor without checking on him are playing with fire.

[Mike Archambeau]

Larry I hope you will hang with us. We need a voice of reason from Northern MI. Besides, when I do return home to MI how else will I track you down?

[Ryan Mooney]

Remember Popular Mechanics magazine? People used to actually read that.

It also used to have more stuff worth reading in it :p Admittedly there is still some useful stuff, but somewhere along the line it became mostly a combination of rather rarefied information and thinly disguised ads (yeah yeah I'm not being totally fair, but its not like it was way back when... I bought the "boy mechanic" series when lee valley had them on reprints - now THAT was good reading - and then I bought a set for my Dad). Nowadays I get Make Magazine instead :D

[Ed Hazel]

Larry

I understand exactly whee you are coming from. I was an auto adjuster for an insurance company, so I have heard forever how insurance adjuster are out to screw everyone which is far from the truth. Then I ran an auto repair facility for 10 years. I know I was not out to rip off anyone just trying to do a good job. You just can not take it personal. There are those bad apples in every profession. For some reason people are always quicker to complain then they are to praise.

[ray hampton]

Larry

I understand exactly whee you are coming from. I was an auto adjuster for an insurance company, so I have heard forever how insurance adjuster are out to screw everyone which is far from the truth. Then I ran an auto repair facility for 10 years. I know I was not out to rip off anyone just trying to do a good job. You just can not take it personal. There are those bad apples in every profession. For some reason people are always quicker to complain then they are to praise.

this could be because of the con-man approach, praising someone go hand-in-hand with conning them out of something

[David Helm]

Larry; hang in. In terms of Holmes (self described expert) I am a two time loser. Spent 30 years as a contractor and now 7 years as a home inspector. If I took anything he says as real I would become a basket case. Heck, people are constantly hiring home inspectors based on price. That's just as wrong as hiring a builder based on price. Yes there are bad ones in every industry. They are the ones that get the recognition. All of us who really care about what we are doing just go about it quietly.

[David Cramer]

Dan

You are right, I should not be so thin skinned. Everyone has off days, and yesterday was one of mine. Actually yesterday I lost a nice house to one of the contractors that you discribe, great talker with no talent, nice office with pretty pictures but no tools or the knowledge or experiance to use them. So yes I was in a bad mood.

The thing is in the thread in question, both you and the OP are mistaken. There is much more to ventilating a roof that the simple law of thermodynamics that "Heat Rises". You have to create a continous blanket of air that starts by pulling in relitively cool air at the bottom and in as close to a sheet as can be flows to the top picking up heat on its way until it is expelled by whatever means employed. More than one exit creates confusion in the air flow and does indeed cause hot spots. More is not always more.

In this case the second contractor that brought this up was correct. For his efforts to make a system that works he is belittled on the internet by someone that has done no research on the subject other than knowing that hot air rises.

I do enjoy waking up in the morning with my coffee and reading what others are doing, helping when I can, and getting others take on tools that I do not own. I have noticed an absense of pros lately, and I really miss their input as these are the guys I learn from. This is not my hobby, this is how I make a living. I have spent my whole life building beautiful things that will be around long after I am gone, things that I like to think will be restored rather than replaced.

Some contractors do that......

Larry

I thoroughly enjoy your posts Larry and can always tell that you know what you're talking about (very few things beat experience). Honestly, when I see a post from you I always click on it so please don't take that away from me:(....not to mention that I am from Michigan too:) I don't live as far up as you but I'm a tad younger and actually avoid the snow whenever possible, which has been an easy thing to do this year. Please, let it go or do what Todd did, take a break.

Thanks,

David (down in the tri-county area)

[Larry Edgerton]

Well of course I had to see how my rant was taken, and I have to say I am surprised and a bit touched by the responses. I really didn't think anyone paid any attention and would not be missed.

I hate all generalizations, be they about race, creed, wealth, or profession, even lawyers:p. And being as this one was aimed at me.....

I have friends from CEO's to a fellow that rents port-a-johns, good people one and all. I don't see what job you have being directly related to intelligence, some people just choose to not use their god given talents for cash. But nothing I say will ever change anything, so I need to just ignore such things. I'll give it a try.

Thank you to one and all.

Larry

[Pat Barry]

Don't sweat it Larry. Fact is everyone likes to stereotype everyone else.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

Glad to see you are still with us Larry, your posts are one of the set of people I'm sure to read. But stop thinking of yourself as just a contractor, you are truly an artist from what I can tell. Just like everytime I stop to look at the work of a prominent stair builder on this forum, your work always sounds magnificent and inspiring and I'm sorry that you don't work near me since I could have used quality inspired work in recent years. I'm sure your clients appreciate your work and we appreciate your posts. Bill Thompson

[Jeff Nicol]

Larry, I rarely bounce around on the other forums from the Turners, but I do check out the lumber yard, off topic, tools and shops. I was a commercial heating and AC fabricator installer for almost 30 years and have been a builder, welder, artist/designer etc on many projects because it comes with the territory. Doing things with my hands and using my brain to do the job better go together and there will always be the "TALKERS" and the "DOERS". I love to yak but if I have no knowledge of the topic, I zip it and pay attention, but if I see or hear the talker doing their best to convince someone that they are the best of the best.......well most times the fast talkers are not cut from the "DOER" cloth, and I will give the potential "MARK" a look, hint or something to seek other and more input. Some folks are afraid to speak up when an expert is at hand, even when the "Talker" is making the customer nervous, but we all have to be our own watchdogs, but like you and many others we are always looking out for those who are preyed upon by the "TALKERS", I feel obligated to do this as it is the way my Dad, Grandfather and Uncles taught me. Being honest and proud is much easier than being dishonest and manipulating. For when we tell the truth we never have to remember if we told some fib or not, so it is much less stressful!

Laugh at the foolish, smile at the guilible, and help those who ask for it with true needs, all others will just end up bitter and miserable with no friends or business. Actions speak louder than words still holds true today.

Great thread and it does bring out the true thoughts of those who care,

Keep on smiling,

Jeff

[Belinda Barfield]

I'm glad you are staying Larry. I was really going to miss you.

[Brian Elfert]

The guy who built my house in 2001 is an excellent contractor. He did hardly any of the work himself, but he has selected a very good group of subcontractors and suppliers. His attention to detail is great. He mostly built $750,000+ plus homes and my home was the least expensive he had ever built.

A contractor I selected to drywall some unfinished space in my home did a terrible job. He didn't use enough compound on the horizontal joints to bring them level. When he taped the garage he didn't even run his knife over the joints after applying the compound and tape. I could have done a way better job in the garage. This contractor came highly recommended from a co-worker and my co-worker is very picky about work done for him.

[harry hood]

If it helps I have a friend that was a particle physicist (at CERN no less) who retired to become a general contractor.

[Dan Hintz]

If it helps I have a friend that was a particle physicist (at CERN no less) who retired to become a general contractor.
He wasn't the one who helped assemble the CERN, was he? They had... issues... on startup ;)

[Jim Matthews]

Okay, there's one.

There are how many high energy-particle physicists?
That sort of meets the definition of few,​ does it not?

[Phil Thien]

If it helps I have a friend that was a particle physicist (at CERN no less) who retired to become a general contractor.

Fascinating. How is your friend doing?

I've worked with some really bright people and have discovered that they tend to do much better then even THEY would imagine when it comes to carpentry/woodworking/cabinet making.

[Mike Wilkins]

Contractors are lumped in with attorneys and claims adjusters. We all get our share of criticism from folks who don't know their elbow from a door hinge. I just take it with a grain of salt and move on. I am not going to let the 'less than smart' individuals ruin my enjoyment of a really fine site. Just roll your eyes and move on.

[harry hood]

I wish, it would be great to give him a hard time about that. A lot of physicists got very discouraged about the US deciding to abandon high-energy physics and cancelling the SSC in the early 90s and left the field. Most went to work in finance (see where that got us) but hopefully more than one went on to do worthwhile things.

[Matt Meiser]

cancelling the SSC in the early 90s

There's was a proposal to build that thing practically in my front yard. There was a HUGE uproar over it here. Funny as the jobs would have come in handy the last few years.

[harry hood]

It also would have something like 3 times as powerful as the LHC from what I recall (it is Texas afterall :)), maybe Higgs boson question would have been answered last decade. There was a great series of articles in Scientific American at the time about it that are worth digging up concerning the death of the project (which would have amount to about 1 month's spending for the Iraq war). Oh well, the tunnels are already there...Hopefully they are keeping the high school kids entertained.

[harry hood]

He's still loving it and made it through 2007-2008 intact. He was way ahead of his time I think, it's almost trendy now for people to leave tech jobs to become farmers and machinists. I ran into a woman not too long ago at farmers market who was a patent lawyer at a software company I worked at a long time ago. She was selling soap and similar stuff that she makes.

[Dan Hintz]

He's still loving it and made it through 2007-2008 intact. He was way ahead of his time I think, it's almost trendy now for people to leave tech jobs to become farmers and machinists. I ran into a woman not too long ago at farmers market who was a patent lawyer at a software company I worked at a long time ago. She was selling soap and similar stuff that she makes.

I can't count the number of times I've considered leaving programming and doing woodworking for a (meager) living.

[John Coloccia]

I can't count the number of times I've considered leaving programming and doing woodworking for a (meager) living.

Not easy...that said, I would never go back to engineering. I would start my own company and do it, but I wouldn't go back to working for someone as an engineer. I wouldn't go back to working for someone as a manager...that was no walk in the park either. I would find it very difficult to work for anyone right now in any capacity, actually. It would have to be a very special opportunity with very talented people to lure me back. Part of why I left is I realized that half my job (or more) was fighting the idiots I was surrounded with, and when I was managing half my job was fighting my idiot customer. Not a very satisfying way to make a living.

[Todd Burch]

I can't count the number of times I've considered leaving programming and doing woodworking for a (meager) living.

Done that - twice. And where I am now? Programming!

While I was woodworking, I really enjoyed it. A ton. But as a one man shop, I was too slow to make the living I wanted to live.

[Dan Hintz]

But as a one man shop, I was too slow to make the living I wanted to live.
The exact reason I haven't done it... yet.

[harry hood]

I can't count the number of times I've considered leaving programming and doing woodworking for a (meager) living.

Tell me about it, I think about it every day. Not nec. woodworking since I worked in a 1.5 man cabinet when I was a kid so don't have any romantic fantasies about that but something else, I'm just not sure what or sure that I'd have the guts for a big change like. Personally, running or somehow making a modest living with something like Techshop would be wonderful all around (http://techshop.ws/) I think. It's a great idea and really is teaching young people things they would have learned if we still had shop classes in schools.