What wood or PVC for external trim garage door

[Andrew Pitonyak]

My garage door is trimmed in wood that is in strong need of replacement. Currently the wood is painted white. I am a unsure what best to use to replace this. My understanding is that if I use PVC then it should be done for good.... and if I am happy with white then I expect that I won't need to paint it, but I have no experience with PVC (with respect to use as trim and similar). The current setup on the inside is as follows:
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There is a board (marked in green) that is roughly 3/4" x 5 1/2". For PVC, I trivially saw 1" board, but not 3/4". The 1/2" board in red serves as a decorative trim and also holds weather stripping that is pushed into a slot cut in the back of the board. With regular wood, I can trivially run a board through my planer and use my router table to slot the back (after I figure out where to purchase the rubber like weather stripping, which I expect will be easy to find). I am a bit concerned about doing too much to PVC since I have never used it and done things like planed it down or run it through a router.

Even the outside has a few mystery items. The board marked in blue appears to be a single piece of wood roughly 1 1/4" thick and 2 1/8" wide. The mystery is that it looks like wood has been run through a router so that there is a roughly 1/8" or 1/4" thick decorative thing around the outside edge. This edge is flat for 1/2" and then there is a 1/2" chamfer. Again, this is purely decorative, but, there is an aluminum piece along the very top edge. I noticed that it is not sloped out as it should be (it should not slope back towards the garage or water will get behind.... Something else to fix while I am handling this).

So, should I try to find a supplier of PVC type wood to handle this, or what type of wood should I use?

One final question.... There is a hard caulk between the aluminum and the wood molding. Any thoughts on the best way to remove this caulk? Should I use the same type when I put things back together?

[Bob Lloyd]

PVC trim, Koma , Azek or similar, is available the same size as pine trim, 3/4" thick in all the standard widths. The molding that you have highlighted is brick molding, also readily available in PVC. The aluminum along the top is window flashing which bends up and underneath the siding. You can get vinyl garage doorstop molding that applies to the jambs.

[Jerome Stanek]

Blue is brick mold green trim board and red is garage door stop.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Excellent.... Knowing what they are called helps much. Should I be able to get these things at Lowes, or must I go to a specialty shop?

[Bob Lloyd]

They are available at Home Depot or Lowes, I cannot remember which but, if IIRR, their trim boards have more of a rounded corner than at a lumber yard and sometimes has a grain texture that I did not like. I am not sure what you mean by a speciality shop but in my area every lumber yard has Azek or Koma or something similar.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Good, then I will start at Lowes and if I do not find exactly what I need / desire, then I will hit a lumber yard.

[Jaromir Svoboda]

Menards have all you need.Use white hot dip galvanized nails.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Can I use normal saw blades to cut it (say on a chop saw or table saw)? How about if I need to run a slot into the side of a board?

There is also a Menards near me. I have never been there. Tried to go there for the first two weeks after they opened but it was so crazy busy that I could not convince myself to give it a go. (park in a field down the street and walk in, yeah, it was that busy.... Guess they had some really good grand opening specials).

[Jarod Michaels]

My dad used the PVC, followed all the directions and it split and is super warped. I don't really like it at all. I think that painted cedar is the best looking, but that is just a personal opinion.

[Craig Michael]

Do not get the trim at hd or lowes, that product is inferior. The big boxes do not sell cellular pvc which is what you want. There are all kinds of composite trim. The two top cellular pvc brands are kleer and azek. Check out their websites to get install info, etc. I use azek, that is what is carried at the lumber yards in my area. Use the azek pvc glue and stainless steel nails. The pvc is more $ than wood but it never rots. Read up on it so you understand the expansion contraction, etc.

I didn't add this earlier since I was on an ipad and it's a PITA to type long replies with that.

The composite trim I've seen at lowes and HD is usually a blend of pvc type materials and wood. Most people think pvc trim is all there is in that category. There are LOTS of different types, very similar to composite decking. There are many different blends of materials among the various composite decking and pvc style trim. Azek and Kleer I know are cellular Pvc and that is the best.

[Craig Michael]

Can I use normal saw blades to cut it (say on a chop saw or table saw)? How about if I need to run a slot into the side of a board?

There is also a Menards near me. I have never been there. Tried to go there for the first two weeks after they opened but it was so crazy busy that I could not convince myself to give it a go. (park in a field down the street and walk in, yeah, it was that busy.... Guess they had some really good grand opening specials).

All wood tools work with pvc trim, router bits, saw blades. Check azek's website for the particulars, the install instructions there are pretty good.

I've installed a lot of azek and never had nor seen from anyone elses work, cracking or warping. If you install it correctly, it will not warp, crack, rot, etc. When painted, you can't tell it apart from painted wood. It does expand and contract a bit like vinyl siding. Not as much but the concept is similar. Short pieces it won't but 20'+, say on facsia runs, you will see some movement from winter to summer. Depends on your climate.

[Bob Deroeck]

I've replaced most of the trim on my house with Azek plus all the trim on my 3 year old detached garage workshop is Azek. Azek claims that it does not need to be painted, but all of the contractors I spoke to install it with a nail gun, then fill the holes with puddy, and then need to paint it to cover the holes. I wanted to avoid painting so I installed the Azek with trim head SS screws with a white epoxy-coated painted head. I took the time to symetrically space all of the screws, since they would be visable. I also only drove the screws to within 1/4" of the final seated position with the drill-driver. The last 1/4" driving was done with a hand screwdriver to ensure the head was flush with the face of the trim and not over-sunk into the trim. With this installation technique the screwheads are visable from about 10 feet away, but I don't find the look objectionable because of the symetrical spacing.

The Azek has held up well in a tough semi-marine environment on a salt water marsh on Cape Cod. The biggest downside of the unpainted Azek is green mold. The Azek planks have very smooth faces and there is no mold growth at all on these smooth faces. But, the short sides (the 3/4" high sides on a standard plank) have a rougher finish. Mold grows on these sides of the planks located on the north side of the buildings. It's not that big a deal because you can wash the sides down with a bleach solution periodically and the mold is removed. But, that's some maintenance, vs Azek's claim of "no maintenance". I've experimented with sanding the sides to make them smoother. This helps some, but the mold still grows on the plank sides original from the manufacturer plus any sides that have been cut with a saw or router.

+1 on buy Azek or a similar name-brand PVC from a lumber yard, because the PVC at HD and Lowes is inferior quality stuff.

I found that Azek machines similar to wood when sawing or routing. I can't speak for how it joins or planes, but I would be hesitant to do either on any "cut" face located on the northside, because that would give you a large area that would be subject to mold and highly visable. However, if the "cut" face is installed towards the building, it wouldn't be a problem.

The material cost of Azek and SS screws is 2-3 times that of wood trim and nails and the installation time is probably 2-3 times greater as well if using the technique I used for installing the screws. All in all I'm pleased with the way the Azek looks and has held up to the weather with minimum maintenance. I would not hesitate to use it again.

Bob

[Craig Michael]

I've replaced most of the trim on my house with Azek plus all the trim on my 3 year old detached garage workshop is Azek. Azek claims that it does not need to be painted, but all of the contractors I spoke to install it with a nail gun, then fill the holes with puddy, and then need to paint it to cover the holes. I wanted to avoid painting so I installed the Azek with trim head SS screws with a white epoxy-coated painted head. I took the time to symetrically space all of the screws, since they would be visable. I also only drove the screws to within 1/4" of the final seated position with the drill-driver. The last 1/4" driving was done with a hand screwdriver to ensure the head was flush with the face of the trim and not over-sunk into the trim. With this installation technique the screwheads are visable from about 10 feet away, but I don't find the look objectionable because of the symetrical spacing.

The Azek has held up well in a tough semi-marine environment on a salt water marsh on Cape Cod. The biggest downside of the unpainted Azek is green mold. The Azek planks have very smooth faces and there is no mold growth at all on these smooth faces. But, the short sides (the 3/4" high sides on a standard plank) have a rougher finish. Mold grows on these sides of the planks located on the north side of the buildings. It's not that big a deal because you can wash the sides down with a bleach solution periodically and the mold is removed. But, that's some maintenance, vs Azek's claim of "no maintenance". I've experimented with sanding the sides to make them smoother. This helps some, but the mold still grows on the plank sides original from the manufacturer plus any sides that have been cut with a saw or router.

+1 on buy Azek or a similar name-brand PVC from a lumber yard, because the PVC at HD and Lowes is inferior quality stuff.

I found that Azek machines similar to wood when sawing or routing. I can't speak for how it joins or planes, but I would be hesitant to do either on any "cut" face located on the northside, because that would give you a large area that would be subject to mold and highly visable. However, if the "cut" face is installed towards the building, it wouldn't be a problem.

The material cost of Azek and SS screws is 2-3 times that of wood trim and nails and the installation time is probably 2-3 times greater as well if using the technique I used for installing the screws. All in all I'm pleased with the way the Azek looks and has held up to the weather with minimum maintenance. I would not hesitate to use it again.

Bob

Azek has smooth sides now to match the faces. I agree, the edges were not as nice as the face. Not a huge issue but it's much nicer now that the edges match the faces.

It wasn't available when you installed your trim but if you do any in the future, you could look at cortex screws for installing it if you do not want to paint it. There is a special counter sink bit that drives the screw then drills a counter sink. Then you install a pvc plug with a hammer. The system works very well. http://www.fastenmaster.com/details/product/cortex-concealed-fastening-system-pvc-trim.html You can also use SS ring shank gun nails and set the nailer to flush nail to the nail is even with the face of the wood. They do sell nails with painted heads if you don't want to paint. I frankly like it painted, I think it looks better that way.


It does not plane all that well. You'll be removing the smoother face and exposing the cellular part. If you used a router on it, even sawing it, you know about the dust. For those not familiar with it. When you cut azek or kleer, etc. it makes a fine dust. The dust is a little like sugar. The dust will have a static charge, so it tends to stick to tools and you (skin, clothes, etc.) You can use a static guard spray to keep it from clinging to you and your tools.

Another tip for people. Azek, kleer, etc. will dent if hit with a hammer, something is dropped on it, etc. The pvc just compresses. You can get the area to pop right back to normal by gently warming the area dented with a hair dryer or heat gun. It is pvc, so watch the heat applied, you can start to melt it if you do it too much. But just going back and forth and you'll see it pop right back to 100%. It works great. Won't work once painted.

Another thing people should know about painting azek, kleer or probably the other type of trim. The trim is pvc, so it does not absorb moisture. When you paint wood, the wood will pull in some of the moisture from latex paint and the air will dry it on the other side. With pvc trim, the paint dries much slower because it is only the air drying the paint. With azek, etc. the paint will still be soft the next day depending on conditions. After a few days though, the finish is extremely durable. It looks like it is baked on there. Holds up very very well.

Also, for window trim, column trims, etc. if anyone has a kreg pocket hole jig, it works well with pvc trim. Build your window frame, use the azek glue and pocket screw on the back and the trim joints will hold tight forever. The azek glue makes a chemical weld similar to pvc plumbing glue with pvc pipe.

[Brice Burrell]

Craig covered most of the important stuff. I always strongly recommend Azek be painted to avoid the mold problem. It's you're painting Bondo the holes. I've installed a lot of Azek and other brand PVC trim boards and sheets and I've only had it crack on one job and that was because the home owner didn't follow my very specific advice about painting. You can use pretty much any exterior latex paint if you want it white, if you want anything with a mid to dark color you have to use Sherwin- Williams VinylSafe for Azek to honor the warranty.

Another couple of tips, Azek says to use acrylic caulk but I use Solar Seal because it's way more flexible. Also, be generous with the fasteners to keep movement in check. I'll add that I've seen Azek at Home Depot in my area. And wahtever you do, please don't use that stupid wood textured side. :P

[Jim Becker]

PVC, while a little more up-front cost from wood, will make for a much more "permanent" replacement of that trim. Paint it up with Sherwin Williams Duration and it will be someone else's problem long, long after you are gone!

[Dave Lash]

The Home Depot stores in NE ohio carry some Azek products, and also have other brands of PVC trim. I have used their brick mould and garage door stop without any problems.

Azek http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?keyword=azek&selectedCatgry=SEARCH+ALL&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1

Brick mould http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202089339/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=brick mould&storeId=10051

Garage door stop http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100094863/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=garage door weather strip&storeId=10051

[Andrew Pitonyak]

The Home Depot stores in NE ohio carry some Azek products, and also have other brands of PVC trim. I have used their brick mould and garage door stop without any problems.
Thanks, that is even easier yet.... Looks like cost will not be much of an issue (for product).

[Craig Michael]

Thanks, that is even easier yet.... Looks like cost will not be much of an issue (for product).

If you are not very familiar with it, we should warn you that it is VERY flexible. If you are getting 18'ers, you need to support it well. It's a little more flexible in warmer weather. To give you an idea, if you hold it over your head in the middle, it will just about touch the ground on each end. It's like a wet noodle.

[Larry Edgerton]

I recently switched from AZEK to VersaTech. I did some testing and the cross section is less granular, produces a better machined surface. Shrinkage is about the same, 1/8" less in 18', but the material is better for the reproduction moulding I make.

The manual from Versatech is the best and if you call them someone will answer the phone. Azek did not help me with some technical questions I had, ignored calls and email so I went looking for a better product from a better company. Found them.

I always paint. I use Sherwin Williams adhesion promoting primer under Grahams Ceramic paint. One thing you have to keep in mind is that there is nothing to make the paint go bad, except the paint itself. Why paint with an inferior product when you have to do it so seldom? I have AZEK out there that is 15 years painted and still looks good. Use good paint.

Larry

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I recently switched from AZEK to VersaTech.
Larry, can you verify that this is VersaTech and not Versatex (http://www.versatex.com/exterior-mouldings.php).

[Thomas Canfield]

There make OSB trim boards for the "smart panel" that is nominal lumber size, 3 1/2, 5 1/2, and I think also nominal 8" and 12" widths , by 16' lengths that have a primer and take paint well. I used a cedar textured board to trim out my new shop and it works well.

[Larry Edgerton]

Larry, can you verify that this is VersaTech and not Versatex (http://www.versatex.com/exterior-mouldings.php).

Sorry, I misspelled. I should get it right, they have asked me to be on a contractors advisory panel. I realized my blunder when I went out to the shop last night and saw their sample kit sittng there. Opps....

Larry

Larry

[Alan Schaffter]

Have you looked into painted aluminum wrapping? I suspect that would be the cheapest.

I had the builder make the exterior of my new house as paint and maintenance free as possible- Hardie plank siding, Hardie-corner boards, vinyl bead board porch ceiling, vinyl windows, etc.. The builder wrapped the wood trim and other areas where Hardie cementacious products or vinyl wouldn't work like garage door trim, porch facia, etc, with painted aluminum. The paint is baked on and durable. 8 years later, it looks as good as the day it was installed.

The aluminum comes in pre-bent sections or in a roll of flat sheet that must be bent to profile on a sheet metal brake.

[Greg Portland]

I always paint. I use Sherwin Williams adhesion promoting primer under Grahams Ceramic paint. One thing you have to keep in mind is that there is nothing to make the paint go bad, except the paint itself. Why paint with an inferior product when you have to do it so seldom? I have AZEK out there that is 15 years painted and still looks good. Use good paint.Larry, can you elaborate on the "only paint can make itself go bad" statement? Is this because it's on the vinyl? I'm also redoing my garage trim and am stuck on the question of "to paint or not to paint". What do you use as fasteners? Finally, what product do you use to cover up gaps or faster holes (acrylic caulk?).

[Larry Edgerton]

Larry, can you elaborate on the "only paint can make itself go bad" statement? Is this because it's on the vinyl? I'm also redoing my garage trim and am stuck on the question of "to paint or not to paint". What do you use as fasteners? Finally, what product do you use to cover up gaps or faster holes (acrylic caulk?).

Ya, I guess I could have worded that better.

With paint that is over wood, it is the substrata that is most likely going to be the cause of failure. In some situations such as at the bottom of trim that gets wet, it will fail no matter what you do. Moisture will find its way into microscopic cracks/chips and the failure process begins. No matter how good the paint, it will come off from the back. It is not necessarily a paint failure, the paint may still be in fine shape, its an adhesion failure.

On plastic, there is nothing getting behind the paint to make it fail. There are no cracks, and chips do not lead to failure because no water is getting in. The only thing that will make the paint fail to the point that it looks shabby, is the quality of the paint itself. With this product it makes good economic sense to spend the extra on the best paint available as it will not suffer an adhesion failure before its time, so it will actually ge a chance to age to its eventual demise.

One important point with this stuff, and I refuse to bend on this, is that you do not want to use dark colors. The reason is that it causes heat from solar gain, and so makes the material expand that much more. Due the research available on Azek and Versatex sites as far as color/shade.

Larry

[Craig Michael]

Larry, can you elaborate on the "only paint can make itself go bad" statement? Is this because it's on the vinyl? I'm also redoing my garage trim and am stuck on the question of "to paint or not to paint". What do you use as fasteners? Finally, what product do you use to cover up gaps or faster holes (acrylic caulk?).

Try to flush nail so there are not holes to fill. If you need something, there is trimbonder, bond and fill and some have used bondo. Trimbonder has uv protection so it is not necessary to paint, the others require paint. If you use these, do your research, they have various use issues. Jlc forum would be a good source for info, search there.

[Larry Edgerton]

I've gotten to where I use CorTex screws and GRK's with the reverse thread. This stuff will follow every little imperfection in the house, and with the reverse threads you can bump it out a little where you need it.

I use plain old Elmers carpenter filler to fill the screw holes. I always paint so matching is not a problem.

I have a plastic putty knife with a hole drilled in it, about a 5/16". I fill the hole with Elmers, place the putty knife over the hole and then strike it off leaving a little putty proud of the Verstex. Come back in a few days and slice it off with a sharp chisel, wipe with a damp rag, and its ready for primer. Have not had a problem with this method in years and it is cheap. I never use the woodgrain side so I have not ever had to deal with that. If I did I guess I would use the Cortex with the woodgrain plugs.

Larry

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I purchased the trim that I required for under $300 and paid another $35 to have it delivered (because I am not able to transport 18' long trim). I spent another $75 on things like SS screws and caulk.

Friday, after work, my wife and I ripped out the existing wood, and by Saturday afternoon, we had replaced it with AZEK trim. As of right now, it is not painted, but it still looks very nice.

I just wanted to say..... Thanks for all the help.